Quote advice

[spruce]

But when I’m charging a customer £17 for house that only has a 1/3 of the windows then charging an extra £3 for a house that has more than double the amount is going to be questionable. No need to get so upset about it. You can probably do it 20mins because you have the experience, but there’s no way I could. I’ve told them £35 now and if I don’t get it then I don’t not mind because I know how long it would take me because I’m not up to speed yet.

The first clean will take longer for an experienced windie and this is why we often suggest that we quote with an initial clean price and then a price for a regular clean. So, for example, you might quote £35.00 for the first clean, £20 for a clean every 6 weeks or £25 for a clean every 12 weeks.

As you get quicker with experience, that clean time will come down. Your customer may feel that he is being overcharged for a regular clean price of £35.00. As others have said, pricing differs from area to area and windie to windie. In the North East we are restricted pricing wise. One of the local lads charges more than I do and has a higher turnover of customers than I do. (I appreciate that it's not always about the job price.)

We find if we over price our enquiries, a customer will soon find a cheaper quote.

 

[Part Timer]

Ouch.
I’ve been cleaning windows for 32 years next month.
My round is full, I clean 2 BMW dealerships, my mortgage is paid in 4 years time. My wife helps me too.


Just to clarify here in the south east, that’s a £1million house.
I though i would be there about half an hour give or take 5 mins.

If I was building I’d charge £25 max and expect to get it 4 times out of 5, as underpriced work is better than no work.

I’m not building I’m just looking to get better priced work so would charge £35 , and would expect that to be 50/50 max.

I realise that there are huge variations across the country with prices.

Also there’s also a lot of B/S spoken on these forums, but that’s always been the case.

Oh and @Part Timer your one of the few on here, who’s opinion I fully respect.

And your advice and opinions are valued by me and others, my price advice is what I'd quote up here but would probably be told I was much more expensive than the previous cleaner and would expect to get the job about 25% of the time. If I needed the job I would probably have to quote £15 to secure it. The OP was asking advice as he's trying to get established and listening to prices of £35+ will probably mean he fails.
I am not full as my son joined me nearly 3 years ago and getting properly priced work up here is very hard and I'm not the type, nowadays, to take anything to low on. I have however got an awful lot of very well priced work, down south, coming to me over the next couple of years so not in a rush to be full.

 

[Chris34]

I don't need to prove anything to you, I was asked for advice and gave it. To be questioned, laughed at and called a liar isn't the reason why I bother to try and help newbies.
If you don't like my opinions just block me, however don't call me a liar.

I do value your opinions generally, but on this one you have either not done the maths or...

You've got to be realistic. To be able to even contemplate doing 3 of those in an hour you need to at least have the houses next door to each other, I can tell you now that's near impossible in areas with houses that big, let alone have say 18 of them in a row to keep the '£60 per hour' every hour rate going... when you're starting out.

It's a bit like saying you're starting out as a small independent supermarket and you're going to take on Aldi, it's unrealistic. You haven't got the buying power to bring the price low enough to take them on at the same prices.

Well the same applies to window cleaning, if you have got 30 odd houses in a row then it could be possible to lower the price and keep out competition. But to advise a new starter to try and take them on just devalues the market for the established cleaners and more importantly, it sets them up for failure.

Basically your approach is how Tango runs his business, he wasn't exactly thriving the last time I heard how he was doing (sorry to single you out Tango).

But that's just the pricing topic. The idea that you could do 3 of those houses every hour all day long... like I say, I've been in the cleaning game for over 20 years, I'm still open minded, but experience tells me from the 3 years in window cleaning that without cutting corners it's at best unrealistic, and in my personal opinion... it's impossible.

Nothing personal but like I say without proof I'd never believe it, unless you're using a massive brush or something then everything I currently know...

 

[Pjj]

I do value your opinions generally, but on this one you have either not done the maths or...

You've got to be realistic. To be able to even contemplate doing 3 of those in an hour you need to at least have the houses next door to each other, I can tell you now that's near impossible in areas with houses that big, let alone have say 18 of them in a row to keep the '£60 per hour' every hour rate going... when you're starting out.

It's a bit like saying you're starting out as a small independent supermarket and you're going to take on Aldi, it's unrealistic. You haven't got the buying power to bring the price low enough to take them on at the same prices.

Well the same applies to window cleaning, if you have got 30 odd houses in a row then it could be possible to lower the price and keep out competition. But to advise a new starter to try and take them on just devalues the market for the established cleaners and more importantly, it sets them up for failure.

Basically your approach is how Tango runs his business, he wasn't exactly thriving the last time I heard how he was doing (sorry to single you out Tango).

But that's just the pricing topic. The idea that you could do 3 of those houses every hour all day long... like I say, I've been in the cleaning game for over 20 years, I'm still open minded, but experience tells me from the 3 years in window cleaning that without cutting corners it's at best unrealistic, and in my personal opinion... it's impossible.

Nothing personal but like I say without proof I'd never believe it, unless you're using a massive brush or something then everything I currently know...

Not wanting to wade into an argument but I agree with @Part Timer its not a big or difficult property to clean if I or my guys could not do that in 20 muinits I would be wanting to know why, first clean yes will be a lot longer , but it’s an easy job only the balonny window is a bit fiddly and with a swivel and know how it’s easy . 3-4 of them per hour in the same location wouldn’t be hard to do .

 

[Part Timer]

I do value your opinions generally, but on this one you have either not done the maths or...

You've got to be realistic. To be able to even contemplate doing 3 of those in an hour you need to at least have the houses next door to each other, I can tell you now that's near impossible in areas with houses that big, let alone have say 18 of them in a row to keep the '£60 per hour' every hour rate going... when you're starting out.

It's a bit like saying you're starting out as a small independent supermarket and you're going to take on Aldi, it's unrealistic. You haven't got the buying power to bring the price low enough to take them on at the same prices.

Well the same applies to window cleaning, if you have got 30 odd houses in a row then it could be possible to lower the price and keep out competition. But to advise a new starter to try and take them on just devalues the market for the established cleaners and more importantly, it sets them up for failure.

Basically your approach is how Tango runs his business, he wasn't exactly thriving the last time I heard how he was doing (sorry to single you out Tango).

But that's just the pricing topic. The idea that you could do 3 of those houses every hour all day long... like I say, I've been in the cleaning game for over 20 years, I'm still open minded, but experience tells me from the 3 years in window cleaning that without cutting corners it's at best unrealistic, and in my personal opinion... it's impossible.

Nothing personal but like I say without proof I'd never believe it, unless you're using a massive brush or something then everything I currently know...

We do 4 bigger houses with more Juliet balconies, 4, on each property in a gated estate that takes me between 1 hour 50 minutes and 2 hours. As for comparing my business model to Tango's, We, my son and I, turned over £5150 last week cleaning residential windows for a PM company and we were finished working at 9.30 on the Friday. I could post pictures on here of jobs we do and the timescales we do them in but as I can't prove it you'd probably shout bull at them as well.
There are members on here that know some of the jobs we do and are surprised how quickly we can do them. We have got this work because we are very reliable and don't cut corners. When you have a 48 hour call back in the contract you don't want to be driving from Sunderland to Portsmouth because we've cut corners and a resident has complained about their windows.
Newbies fail because they don't earn enough money, not because they're busy fools.

 

[Iron Giant]

I do value your opinions generally, but on this one you have either not done the maths or...

You've got to be realistic. To be able to even contemplate doing 3 of those in an hour you need to at least have the houses next door to each other, I can tell you now that's near impossible in areas with houses that big, let alone have say 18 of them in a row to keep the '£60 per hour' every hour rate going... when you're starting out.

It's a bit like saying you're starting out as a small independent supermarket and you're going to take on Aldi, it's unrealistic. You haven't got the buying power to bring the price low enough to take them on at the same prices.

Well the same applies to window cleaning, if you have got 30 odd houses in a row then it could be possible to lower the price and keep out competition. But to advise a new starter to try and take them on just devalues the market for the established cleaners and more importantly, it sets them up for failure.

Basically your approach is how Tango runs his business, he wasn't exactly thriving the last time I heard how he was doing (sorry to single you out Tango).

But that's just the pricing topic. The idea that you could do 3 of those houses every hour all day long... like I say, I've been in the cleaning game for over 20 years, I'm still open minded, but experience tells me from the 3 years in window cleaning that without cutting corners it's at best unrealistic, and in my personal opinion... it's impossible.

Nothing personal but like I say without proof I'd never believe it, unless you're using a massive brush or something then everything I currently know...

I'll shout out for @Part Timer as I know him just a little bit personally he was in a management role of a family business with a turnover in excess of £1,000,000 so his business acumen and maths I'd say far exceeds mine and others on here, I ain't pipping up because I have met up with him and because on more than one occasion he has offered and has helped me out, not once I don't believe has he ever come on here flaunting or bragging he is a man of integrity

 

[kevinc250]

i kind of agree with @Part Timer, those windows could be done to a high standard in around 20 mins however, is that including the conservatory roof? if so, the ladders would be off the van for the side facing the gable end so, its going to be more than 20 mins to complete the job maybe from start to finish 35mins as i said in a previous post that i'd be around £25-£30 on a 8 weekly cycle i'm still making a good hourly rate which devalues once i move to another job-travelling time etc.
there is an awefull lot of bull on here at times its mostly based around quotes and how much for this or that personally you should look at it all in the whole not, based on one persons view as you can see if you read back through the posts areas differ in prices so there is no common denominator, i never price more for first cleans that darts back to the days of trad, i'm sorry but i can do a perfect first clean in not much longer than it would take a maintainance clean its just knowing how to do it, part timer works down south on larger contracts because he can compete with you southerners and make a very healthy profit even considering travelling costs etc, to do that he has to provide a very high quality standard of work-i know i've been there and done it and can't be bothered travelling distances anymore unless it was lucrative.

 

[Jaygti]

Going back to the OP , if it’s a half hour job and you’ve quoted £35. That’s pricing work at £70 an hour.
If your pricing all work at that rate, and at the end of the year all you have 30 customers , your in debt up to your eyeballs, and your hiding behind the sofa when there’s a knock at the door ,because you haven’t got enough work , then clearly your far too pricey.

Pricing sky high when you have plenty of work makes sense, it doesn’t when your trying to feed a family.

 

[Chris34]

Not wanting to wade into an argument but I agree with @Part Timer its not a big or difficult property to clean if I or my guys could not do that in 20 muinits I would be wanting to know why, first clean yes will be a lot longer , but it’s an easy job only the balonny window is a bit fiddly and with a swivel and know how it’s easy . 3-4 of them per hour in the same location wouldn’t be hard to do .

So your workers are turning over £100+ per hour for you? They're making you £4k+ per week for each worker? Because that's what your maths are saying. 8 hours per day at over £100 per hour, £800 per day and that's just at 3 an hour. 4 an hour and it would be £1k+ per day per worker and your business is turning over £1m per year.

 

[Pjj]

So your workers are turning over £100+ per hour for you? They're making you £4k+ per week for each worker? Because that's what your maths are saying. 8 hours per day at over £100 per hour, £800 per day and that's just at 3 an hour. 4 an hour and it would be £1k+ per day per worker and your business is turning over £1m per year.

On some jobs yes and considerably more on some commercial work , but I haven’t said we do that 8 hours per day 5 days per week 48 weeks per year , Ime certainly not going into specific details on a public forum of what we earn per year ,I said that the property in the picture we would charge £30-35 for per clean and we could do 3-4 per hour if compact work . We regularly clean 5-6 3 bed semis per hour per man 8 hours per day week in week out , and Ime not putting on hear what we charge , but you are welcome to come down and choose which van you would like to go out on and watch my guys or me do it if you like .

 

[Chris34]

I'll shout out for @Part Timer as I know him just a little bit personally he was in a management role of a family business with a turnover in excess of £1,000,000 so his business acumen and maths I'd say far exceeds mine and others on here, I ain't pipping up because I have met up with him and because on more than one occasion he has offered and has helped me out, not once I don't believe has he ever come on here flaunting or bragging he is a man of integrity

But do you yourself with all your knowledge and years of experience believe that the best advice to give a new starter is to aim to do three of those houses an hour every hour for every day of the week to hit your realistic achievable target. Whether it's £5 per house or £50 per house is irrelevant as it depends on the area, what's relevant is what's an achievable work rate on a regular basis, and more importantly what's achievable for a new starter.

A new starter will be slower for starters, they will also not have any customers, so the chance of them getting houses next to each other is impossible. So saying £20 and aim to do three an hour, well they're not going to get £60 an hour, they'd be lucky to get £40 per hour and that's if the houses are next door to each other. Spread apart, which is what they will likely find and it will end up £30 per hour, maybe £25 if they get delays on top. That's unworkable.

 

[Pjj]

But do you yourself with all your knowledge and years of experience believe that the best advice to give a new starter is to aim to do three of those houses an hour every hour for every day of the week to hit your realistic achievable target. Whether it's £5 per house or £50 per house is irrelevant as it depends on the area, what's relevant is what's an achievable work rate on a regular basis, and more importantly what's achievable for a new starter.

A new starter will be slower for starters, they will also not have any customers, so the chance of them getting houses next to each other is impossible. So saying £20 and aim to do three an hour, well they're not going to get £60 an hour, they'd be lucky to get £40 per hour and that's if the houses are next door to each other. Spread apart, which is what they will likely find and it will end up £30 per hour, maybe £25 if they get delays on top. That's unworkable.

I don’t believe anyone has said a new starter should be doing 3-4 of them per hour ones have said it’s possible to do that with compact work and then given the price they would charge for it , and yes a new starter will take a lot longer I agree but an experienced cleaner could do that without to much trouble . Ware are you getting that they should be doing that every hour of every day and week we are a very well established firm with some very lucrative work but wouldn’t achieve Those figures all the time as I said in my previous post , I think you are taking what has been said out of context .

 

[Chris34]

On some jobs yes and considerably more on some commercial work , but I haven’t said we do that 8 hours per day 5 days per week 48 weeks per year , Ime certainly not going into specific details on a public forum of what we earn per year ,I said that the property in the picture we would charge £30-35 for per clean and we could do 3-4 per hour if compact work . We regularly clean 5-6 3 bed semis per hour per man 8 hours per day week in week out , and Ime not putting on hear what we charge , but you are welcome to come down and choose which van you would like to go out on and watch my guys or me do it if you like .

But like I said to Iron Giant, and you've pretty much highlighted it in your response. You're pointing out your peak rate, not what is achievable day in day out, let alone for a new starter.

Put it this way, if you have 1 of them houses in 1 road lets call it bond street, then 1 on regent street, another on fleet street, each street is a few minutes away, well how can you do 3 per hour if you have only just started out and it's taking you 40+ minutes for each house and travelling to each one. A new starter will be earning a little more that £20 per hour with a business model like that.

It's poor advice.

 

[scottish cleaning service]

It can take me over 30mins on a first clean. Reason being I tend to clean the front door if white with the pink stuff before I wash it. Slowly I get them up to my standard which makes it easier for me in the long run.

 

[Pjj]

But do you yourself with all your knowledge and years of experience believe that the best advice to give a new starter is to aim to do three of those houses an hour every hour for every day of the week to hit your realistic achievable target. Whether it's £5 per house or £50 per house is irrelevant as it depends on the area, what's relevant is what's an achievable work rate on a regular basis, and more importantly what's achievable for a new starter.

A new starter will be slower for starters, they will also not have any customers, so the chance of them getting houses next to each other is impossible. So saying £20 and aim to do three an hour, well they're not going to get £60 an hour, they'd be lucky to get £40 per hour and that's if the houses are next door to each other. Spread apart, which is what they will likely find and it will end up £30 per hour, maybe £25 if they get delays on top. That's unworkable.

I personally COULD do 3-4 of those houses per hour 8 hours per day I haven’t said I do do that but if you had enough of them it’s physically possible to do that many per hour/day . There is a big difference between what’s possible and ones doing it we have one small close of 5 detached houses total price for the lot £265 I can do the lot on my own in just under 2 hours , but and it’s a big but I don’t do that every hour of every day of every week , it’s cream work that’s what 23 years of refining has accomplished but given time it is possible, different areas I accept will give lower prices and it maybe difficult build compact work we are lucky and can still build very compact rounds due a a huge demand and few cleaners , this isn’t boasting Ime just lucky ware I live and that there isn’t much competition.

 

[Part Timer]

But like I said to Iron Giant, and you've pretty much highlighted it in your response. You're pointing out your peak rate, not what is achievable day in day out, let alone for a new starter.

Put it this way, if you have 1 of them houses in 1 road lets call it bond street, then 1 on regent street, another on fleet street, each street is a few minutes away, well how can you do 3 per hour if you have only just started out and it's taking you 40+ minutes for each house and travelling to each one. A new starter will be earning a little more that £20 per hour with a business model like that.

It's poor advice.

Not as poor advice than giving prices where they won't get the job. You can't possibly get compact work if you don't have a base to start from and you can't expect to get paid extra, on a sympathy basis, because you're a newbie and not as fast as your competition. Fairly certain your hourly rate that you constantly quote is based on a 5 or 6 hour day which is not your actual hourly rate. A newbie earning £20 an hour learning the trade is a very decent rate. You really can't expect a newbie to be earning top dollar on an hourly basis

 

[Pjj]

But like I said to Iron Giant, and you've pretty much highlighted it in your response. You're pointing out your peak rate, not what is achievable day in day out, let alone for a new starter.

Put it this way, if you have 1 of them houses in 1 road lets call it bond street, then 1 on regent street, another on fleet street, each street is a few minutes away, well how can you do 3 per hour if you have only just started out and it's taking you 40+ minutes for each house and travelling to each one. A new starter will be earning a little more that £20 per hour with a business model like that.

It's poor advice.

We do have 3-4 of that type of property next door to each other , again not doing it all day everyday but over time building a round it is achievable it will be easier/harder depending ware you are , again we won’t take on a job in a street on its own don’t need to we are well established but when I started I did take on jobs like that that’s how we now have some roads ware we do the vast majority of the road , gradually building in each area . A new starter will not have a lot of work close together unless they buy a round but it can be built up given time and certainly £30 per hour should be possible with the type of property in the picture Evan if it took them 30-45 muinits per house to do .

 

[ched999uk]

I have only been going just under a year. I find it quite interesting reading about prices and how quick people are. Sometimes it's something to aim for or aspire to, other times I am fairly sure I could never achieve the speed that some on here do. I am not under any illusion that I can achieve the levels of speed or pay that some achieve on here. To be honest I'm not sure I would ever want to achieve the speed that some can achieve (and still maintain good quality work), I am getting on a bit .

As for advice to noobs, it's up to the individual to gather as much info as they can to understand their area, their speed and how they want to work and put the information together. I feel it's great to have a cross section of people here providing their own experiences. It's a bit like when someone that's been going for years says 'you can only get £x round here', sometimes that's perfectly true other times it's what they have been charging for years and have never tried to achieve a higher rate. Everyone has to learn their area and what they can charge, so asking on here is a great way to understand things but not treat it as fact it's just guidance and personal experience.

The bottom line is everyone works their own way and runs their business the way they wish.

I am very grateful for virtually all posts on here - good or bad they get me thinking can I improve things, make things more efficient, learn from others mistakes, or even just amuse me!!

So thanks to everyone who contributes.

 

[Chris34]

Not as poor advice than giving prices where they won't get the job. You can't possibly get compact work if you don't have a base to start from and you can't expect to get paid extra, on a sympathy basis, because you're a newbie and not as fast as your competition. Fairly certain your hourly rate that you constantly quote is based on a 5 or 6 hour day which is not your actual hourly rate. A newbie earning £20 an hour learning the trade is a very decent rate. You really can't expect a newbie to be earning top dollar on an hourly basis

It's slower building up the work but my work is pretty compact these days. Pricing higher just pays for the gaps in between, but over time you fill in the gaps and then your hourly rate goes higher.

I do price at £60 per hour now but I actually earn £40 to £50. The reason is simple, there are gaps between the work which obviously the moment you finish a house you're not earning, and the other reason is last year I was aiming for £50 per hour, so naturally I've got jobs that are priced at a lower rate than this years rate, I've also still got jobs that were priced in year one at the £35 per hour rate (my starting up rate). It will probably be later this year or going into next year by the time I hit £60 per hour. This will be because I fill in more gaps and increase the prices of the lower rate ones.

But I live in an affluent area and the prices you can get are probably higher, however if I lived in an non affluent area I'd still use the same business model. If it was an area where £15 was the norm, I'd be at £25.

It's easier to drop your prices than it is to increase them, that's the way I look at it.

But yeah, still don't believe 3 of those houses every hour for every day of the week is good advice. Personally I can't even see doing it for 1 hour is achievable.

Better advice would be 'I can do that house in 20 minutes, if I've got 3 next to each other I could do three in an hour'. The way you have given the advice makes it sound like 3 an hour every hour is a realistic achievable target, obviously it's not. 1 to 2 an hour is more realistic but being new you should be looking at 45 minutes, that's better advice.

I speak from experience, I am relatively new, the advice I received on here with regards to houses per hour was poor, luckily I picked up on it quickly and adjusted my price. Everyone seems to quote the peak performance per hour, not the hour by hour performance. It's like everyone brags about how many houses they get done and then says that's the standard... well actually it isn't. Everyone has different standards, different kit and depending on your level of standards and kit determines how much work you can get done.

 

[Part Timer]

It's slower building up the work but my work is pretty compact these days. Pricing higher just pays for the gaps in between, but over time you fill in the gaps and then your hourly rate goes higher.

I do price at £60 per hour now but I actually earn £40 to £50. The reason is simple, there are gaps between the work which obviously the moment you finish a house you're not earning, and the other reason is last year I was aiming for £50 per hour, so naturally I've got jobs that are priced at a lower rate than this years rate, I've also still got jobs that were priced in year one at the £35 per hour rate (my starting up rate). It will probably be later this year or going into next year by the time I hit £60 per hour. This will be because I fill in more gaps and increase the prices of the lower rate ones.

But I live in an affluent area and the prices you can get are probably higher, however if I lived in an non affluent area I'd still use the same business model. If it was an area where £15 was the norm, I'd be at £25.

It's easier to drop your prices than it is to increase them, that's the way I look at it.

But yeah, still don't believe 3 of those houses every hour for every day of the week is good advice. Personally I can't even see doing it for 1 hour is achievable.

Better advice would be 'I can do that house in 20 minutes, if I've got 3 next to each other I could do three in an hour'. The way you have given the advice makes it sound like 3 an hour every hour is a realistic achievable target, obviously it's not. 1 to 2 an hour is more realistic but being new you should be looking at 45 minutes, that's better advice.

I speak from experience, I am relatively new, the advice I received on here with regards to houses per hour was poor, luckily I picked up on it quickly and adjusted my price. Everyone seems to quote the peak performance per hour, not the hour by hour performance. It's like everyone brags about how many houses they get done and then says that's the standard... well actually it isn't. Everyone has different standards, different kit and depending on your level of standards and kit determines how much work you can get dodone.

But you're actually advising a newbie to base his price on £70 an hour, higher then your target. I have been in business for 40 years and would never advise someone something that I couldn't personally do.
You keep going on about standards, as if you think your standards are better than anyone else's. My work is doing work for people that love to complain as they detest all their management charges, and haven't lost one in 11 years on a quality issue. I have actually walked away from my Cambridge work and have 2 PM Managers asking me not to drop them because, in their words, contractors as good as me are very hard to find.

 

[scottish cleaning service]

I personally COULD do 3-4 of those houses per hour 8 hours per day I haven’t said I do do that but if you had enough of them it’s physically possible to do that many per hour/day . There is a big difference between what’s possible and ones doing it we have one small close of 5 detached houses total price for the lot £265 I can do the lot on my own in just under 2 hours , but and it’s a big but I don’t do that every hour of every day of every week , it’s cream work that’s what 23 years of refining has accomplished but given time it is possible, different areas I accept will give lower prices and it maybe difficult build compact work we are lucky and can still build very compact rounds due a a huge demand and few cleaners , this isn’t boasting Ime just lucky ware I live and that there isn’t much competition.

I usually work 7 days when my windows are due but it takes its toll. I'm off Wednesday and looking forward to it. Eventually it leads to burnout.