Removing greying from frames

[spruce]

I wouldn't use cif as it's to abrasive, I banned my wife from using it years ago as it scratched our bath quite badly, I use magic sponges and Bar Keepers Friend were required, but I charge double for a first clean and don't go up a ladder and go all out @Chris34 I would say what you are doing is close to a restoration clean, but i totally get why you are doing it. 

When you buy a new bath the instructions tell you never to use abrasive surface cleaners as over time they remove the top coat.

We use CIF on the odd window frame as well as 'The Pink Stuff.' We used to use Astonish paste but they doubled the tub size and more than doubled the price. It was the increase tub size that made it more inconvenient to handle more than anything. The containers that The Pink Stuff comes in are a 'perfect' size.

If you go for a solvent @Chris34 always check it in an inconspicious area first. We had a customer who used some on the downstairs window sills and it ate into them. The end result was awful.

 

[Chris34]

So finished it, lol don't know how but I spent 3 hours.  I tried different techniques.  I didn't use solvent as it didn't arrive on time, didn't use barkeepers as I couldn't get hold of any, I managed to get the pink stuff from a local hardware shop for £2 but didn't use it in the end as the job was taking too long.

Anyway I just used the screwfix degreaser and used a magic sponge with it on the lower sills and the door.  They didn't come up like new but they do look a lot better.

 

[Chris34]

What I've found is the best way to use the degreaser is to not let it dwell on the frames.  It's actually better to do small sections of the frames at a time and you keep scrubbing until they are white and then rinse it off quickly and proceed with the next section.  Doing it this way stops the frames absorbing the dirt, it's almost like the frames are a bit porous and if you are not moving the dirt the frames seem to absorb it a little.  If you do small sections and then rinse off the dirt/film then it seems to give the best results.

I don't think I'll clean like this again, it's not really worth the effort for me and for the customer it wouldn't be worth the extra cost but it has given me an idea now of what is possible. 

 

[Iron Giant]

its fine.....dont forget any house with greying black frames will have old old windows......it doesnt matter if it scratches the plastic a bit as long as it makes them whiter.....

i did one last year which was really bad,never had a window cleaner in years,i used half a bottle of cif!just squirted it on my brush and scrubbed away like mad..i charged them £80 and was done in an hour.....i now clean their windows regularly...they were over the moon with the first clean.....?

Says the man who washes his 30k Golf with a wfp brush and pure water ? I shan't question your window cleaning  knowledge and skill, but I would question your eyesight, get yourself to Spec-Savers  ?

 

[Iron Giant]

I agree with most of the above but be VERY careful with solvent cleaner. If you don’t know what you are doing and the frames/seals are badly oxidised you could end up causing more damage. I did a conservatory once and I couldn’t remove the black ‘run off’ from the solvent cleaner - luckily I did a small test patch first but it took a good 30-45 minutes to get it anywhere near decent again. Old UPVC seems to fair better with solvent cleaner but I’ve still not found anything that performs better than the pink stuff. Used along side the white scourer pads that Gardiner’s sell. With regards to the ‘wow’ factor, unless you charge well the 4 hour first cleans will start to grate on you a bit, I used to love a good first clean but dread every one of them now!!!

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I have done some sills similar to those and got the same results with Bar Keepers Friend  within this link I now see they do a cream now, not just the powder, what I personally like about it also is, it's not tested on animals and uses natural ingredients unlike products from some of the big household names 

 

[dazmond]

Says the man who washes his 30k Golf with a wfp brush and pure water ? I shan't question your window cleaning  knowledge and skill, but I would question your eyesight, get yourself to Spec-Savers  ?

so you dont think its a good idea to clean a car with a flocked brush and WFP?I always have and the van too......

 

[Pjj]

so you dont think its a good idea to clean a car with a flocked brush and WFP?I always have and the van too......

Evan a fllocked  brush will scratch the paintwork  it will show up worse with dark colours 

 

[Baldmonkey]

I have Hurd several people say this stuff is good I have never seen/used it what does it come in liquid? Cream cleaner ?? Where do you get it ? I might get some to keep on the van as another thing that might come in useful now and again 

home bargains sell it in the paste form at 99p and also a liquid version for 89p i think got some about a week ago, the liquid bottle is like the old style jif bottles and are great because they have a perforated strip all down the side to get the plastic label off nice and clean, used it the other day with some green kitchen scourers from the same aisle and worked a treat on some rust and greying...didnt even have to scrub very much, ill upload a few pics from my phone

 

[Chris34]

home bargains sell it in the paste form at 99p and also a liquid version for 89p i think got some about a week ago, the liquid bottle is like the old style jif bottles and are great because they have a perforated strip all down the side to get the plastic label off nice and clean, used it the other day with some green kitchen scourers from the same aisle and worked a treat on some rust and greying...didnt even have to scrub very much, ill upload a few pics from my phone

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That's impressive that, looks perfect.  Can't understand why they would sell it so cheap.  

 

[Baldmonkey]

That's impressive that, looks perfect.  Can't understand why they would sell it so cheap.  

because its just a standard cleaner that does a good job in a particular field, im not saying others dont but it just goes to show how much unger charge for rubout (as an example) and how much this is in comparison...ive only just started and throughout the planning of everything i had always envisaged using rubout as it was highly recommended by people including @Green Pro Clean Ltd in his videos.

i was surprised at the price per 500ml in comparison so thought id try the pink stuff first, it was good so why pay 20 times more???but thats just my opinion

 

[Iron Giant]

so you dont think its a good idea to clean a car with a flocked brush and WFP?I always have and the van too......

100% not, you will have micro swirls or worse like these and I would assume you have flatted the paintwork as in it will feel flat to the touch, I was in a detailing shop with a mate a while back, were I buy some of my detailing stuff from and when my mate told the owner how I clean the van and he just laughed, admittedly I have never got around the sorting out the van paintwork as yet.

I would take to hand washing your motors and spending some money on some decent detailing/car washing gear, you could quite easily spend a £100 just on washing stuff and drying towels, the second pic is my wifes little car, you won't get that finish or look with wfp

The swirls in the pic, I have also noticed on some black garage doors I clean, but only on a bright sunny day, I believe these were caused when I was using a mono-filament brush, I think what we do in our job has some crossover relevance to cleaning certain surfaces in our job composite doors, those metal grey windows that some are having fitted and dark brown rosewood frames, non of which I would touch with any supermarket off the shelf products or magic sponges as these can and will damage the surfaces 

 

[Oli]

I can confirm this is 85p and 99p in home bargains ?? 

 

[Incheck]

I agree with most of the above but be VERY careful with solvent cleaner. If you don’t know what you are doing and the frames/seals are badly oxidised you could end up causing more damage. I did a conservatory once and I couldn’t remove the black ‘run off’ from the solvent cleaner - luckily I did a small test patch first but it took a good 30-45 minutes to get it anywhere near decent again. Old UPVC seems to fair better with solvent cleaner but I’ve still not found anything that performs better than the pink stuff. Used along side the white scourer pads that Gardiner’s sell. With regards to the ‘wow’ factor, unless you charge well the 4 hour first cleans will start to grate on you a bit, I used to love a good first clean but dread every one of them now!!!

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Nice to see another who hasn’t forgotten about their ladder ? the state i’ve seen WFP leave upstairs sills in really put the shockers on for me a while ago when i checked a couple of my own jobs, i had a complaint and suddenly realised i was putting far too much faith in a pole to clean something i couldn't actually see. Even when i angle the brush downwards and scrub the sill and rinse it extra well, i had specks of dirt and soot left (same as the millions of black bits that endlessly spill out of conny roofs) 

As far as i can see wfp rarely leaves upstairs window sills presentable, so i never trust an upstairs window sill any more. 

I also find wfp terrible on sash windows/ french windows whatever theyre called, the ones with the side grooves and ropes, so much dirt and cobwebs gets caught in those grooves im always up there with the micro fibres and muck off claw if i can access them without too much trouble. 

 It can so easily bring a reputation to the ground and i reckon a lot of people chance it. There are a few companies near us no sight of a ladder on the van. clean our neighbors houses and neighbors of my parents do a lot of work in the area and i know they have big rounds. But I can see the state of the sills and even lower window frames, often with grey all over and the odd streak of green algae i think how on earth are people getting away with it. 

If they were awkward or inconvenient windows (which a lot are) then i could understand, but these have obviously easy ladder access and aren't particularly high.

Makes me wonder sometimes whether customers are happy to simply have clean glass and whether they're even bothered about the sills ?‍ Many people clearly dont look at them.

maybe i just come up against more fuss pots than most i dont know ?‍

 

[Baldmonkey]

I can confirm this is 85p and 99p in home bargains ?? 

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ive let the home bargains cat out of the bag....better go and bloody stock up hadnt i ...ps the images above was done with the liquid

 

[AGlassAct]

ive let the home bargains cat out of the bag....better go and bloody stock up hadnt i ...ps the images above was done with the liquid

Interesting you say that as the reviews for the liquid haven’t been all that great.

 

[AGlassAct]

Nice to see another who hasn’t forgotten about their ladder ? the state i’ve seen WFP leave upstairs sills in really put the shockers on for me a while ago when i checked a couple of my own jobs, i had a complaint and suddenly realised i was putting far too much faith in a pole to clean something i couldn't actually see. Even when i angle the brush downwards and scrub the sill and rinse it extra well, i had specks of dirt and soot left (same as the millions of black bits that endlessly spill out of conny roofs) 

As far as i can see wfp rarely leaves upstairs window sills presentable, so i never trust an upstairs window sill any more. 

I also find wfp terrible on sash windows/ french windows whatever theyre called, the ones with the side grooves and ropes, so much dirt and cobwebs gets caught in those grooves im always up there with the micro fibres and muck off claw if i can access them without too much trouble. 

 It can so easily bring a reputation to the ground and i reckon a lot of people chance it. There are a few companies near us no sight of a ladder on the van. clean our neighbors houses and neighbors of my parents do a lot of work in the area and i know they have big rounds. But I can see the state of the sills and even lower window frames, often with grey all over and the odd streak of green algae i think how on earth are people getting away with it. 

If they were awkward or inconvenient windows (which a lot are) then i could understand, but these have obviously easy ladder access and aren't particularly high.

Makes me wonder sometimes whether customers are happy to simply have clean glass and whether they're even bothered about the sills ?‍ Many people clearly dont look at them.

maybe i just come up against more fuss pots than most i dont know ?‍

I’m a window cleaner, I find it ridiculous when window cleaners don’t use ladders. I do a ‘restoration’ on every house I clean. Don’t charge any extra. I’ve been on a house all day before and got paid £40 (normal 6 weekly price). Why? Because I take pride in my work and think of every customer as a blessing - they see I can do an awesome job and I actually give a ?, they don’t complain when I return and it’s raining, or takes me 30 minutes to earn that £40 the next time. When you have window cleaners charging a tenner for the same £40 house, window cleaners that offer 6 months free window cleaning - you have to go above and beyond. Yes I lose customers, not many, but I’m after quality not quantity and all my new customers come from recommendations. Going back to topic - apologies for the mini rant - does the pink stuff work? YES!  It’s a quid and it knocks the socks off Unger rub out. Is it the only thing I keep in my van? God no, the pink stuff will cure 90% of bleeding seals and oxidised frames, but if you can’t be bothered climbing a ladder to do a thorough job (and change more if that’s your bag) it’s not the miracle cure your after, their is no such thing (that I’ve found anyway) in Window Cleaning- just good old elbow grease which you can’t buy I’m afraid. What else do I use? Screwfix degreaser, bar keepers friend, solvent cleaner, isopropyl alcohol. I decided at the start I wanted to do the absolute best I could on every job I do. Using a combination of the above I can do that - but not everyone works like that which is fair enough!!

 

[dazmond]

I’m a window cleaner, I find it ridiculous when window cleaners don’t use ladders. I do a ‘restoration’ on every house I clean. Don’t charge any extra. I’ve been on a house all day before and got paid £40 (normal 6 weekly price). Why? Because I take pride in my work and think of every customer as a blessing - they see I can do an awesome job and I actually give a ?, they don’t complain when I return and it’s raining, or takes me 30 minutes to earn that £40 the next time. When you have window cleaners charging a tenner for the same £40 house, window cleaners that offer 6 months free window cleaning - you have to go above and beyond. Yes I lose customers, not many, but I’m after quality not quantity and all my new customers come from recommendations. Going back to topic - apologies for the mini rant - does the pink stuff work? YES!  It’s a quid and it knocks the socks off Unger rub out. Is it the only thing I keep in my van? God no, the pink stuff will cure 90% of bleeding seals and oxidised frames, but if you can’t be bothered climbing a ladder to do a thorough job (and change more if that’s your bag) it’s not the miracle cure your after, their is no such thing (that I’ve found anyway) in Window Cleaning- just good old elbow grease which you can’t buy I’m afraid. What else do I use? Screwfix degreaser, bar keepers friend, solvent cleaner, isopropyl alcohol. I decided at the start I wanted to do the absolute best I could on every job I do. Using a combination of the above I can do that - but not everyone works like that which is fair enough!!

i like your enthusiasm.....you remind me of myself in my 20s..but after 26 years of window cleaning i dont care that much anymore....

the trick is to do an adequate job for a good price without busting your  balls in the process........?....most customers are not bothered about upper windows sills...i just make sure the lower sills are spot on and just hope the top sills are clean(most probably are not super clean!)

also i cant be bothered to climb ladders anymore.......i spent 17 years on them day in/day out......?

 

[Part Timer]

I’m a window cleaner, I find it ridiculous when window cleaners don’t use ladders. I do a ‘restoration’ on every house I clean. Don’t charge any extra. I’ve been on a house all day before and got paid £40 (normal

I'm a window cleaner and I don't use ladders. I also find it ridiculous that someone wants to work all day for £40. If a potential customer has bought a house on the cheap because it's in a poor condition or has allowed the windows get into a bad state then I don't see why I should bail them out on the cheap.

Good luck with your business model but please don't call other window cleaners that don't use ladders ridiculous. 

 

[Cleanco]

Unless it’s a new house or already been cleaned recently I always use ladders on first cleans. I just like the peace of mind that all the dirt you cannot see from the ground is gone. I charge 2x for first cleans. Give them a once over with the pole and then again trad. It’s surprising how much extra dirt you remove from the corners etc with a scrape or a cloth compared to scrubbing with a brush. I’ve tried everything from chems to stiff brushes and have found that it’s far more efficient to trad them as well. You can find yourself scrubbing for ages then and when you get up their off your ladder only to find more engrained dirt that takes seconds to wipe off with a cloth/scrim. Ive found that first cleans can take up to 50% less time doing it this way rather than wfp alone. Btw I’m only cold wfp so that will make a difference compared to using hot but even if I was hot I’d still whip the ladder off just for peace of mind. I’m sorry but as a domestic window cleaner you simply cannot say that you doing the job to the best of you ability by using just a pole even if it is just for access although some will just cherry pick work that suits their style which is ok but I prefer to go for compacting my work whatever the method rather than only being able to do certain jobs by limitation by the method I use.

p.s I don’t know why any commercial lads are commenting on this as most jobs won’t even allow ladders on site so it’s not their choice as I’ve worked in the commercial sector before and the rules and regs are getting even tighter. 

 

[Iron Giant]

To tar anyone and everyone because they don't use a ladder and say wfp ain't up to the job to a point is laughable, it's all about technique and I would say I take my time more so on sills than some others, the reason I do this is because I have and do still work on new build estates which are still having houses built for the last 9 years or so, these jobs have helped me hone my craft as they simply can't be done as quickly and with wider pvc sills on some a Supreme brush which has longer bristles is far better than a smaller compact brush like an Ultimate. 

Simply been reliant on the magic water and quick swipe over either upper or lower sills isn't good enough and this is something some people blindly rely on , what you should know is that a brush will sit much flatter on upper sills so therefore extra work is required, my little trick is to place the brush on a lower sill and have it placed flatter like I think it will be on a upper sill and see how the brush performs and how the dirt and water does or doesn't move dependant on how I work the brush across the sill

Lads can go up ladders and use all the pink stuff and elbow grease they want on a first clean, but unless you have a refined technique for each subsequent clean, then to a point you have wasted your time, I don't work like a madman when I go to work clashing jobs out as fast as I can to maximise my turnover, I do the job right first time every time even if it takes me longer and I earn less so be it, some lads wouldn't last 5 minutes on the estates I cover with an almost splash and dash approach as every job can't be clashed out which is what some simply don't realise.  

 

[AGlassAct]

I'm a window cleaner and I don't use ladders. I also find it ridiculous that someone wants to work all day for £40. If a potential customer has bought a house on the cheap because it's in a poor condition or has allowed the windows get into a bad state then I don't see why I should bail them out on the cheap.

Good luck with your business model but please don't call other window cleaners that don't use ladders ridiculous. 

You've misquoted there part timer, I didn’t call window cleaners that don’t use ladders ridiculous- I said I think it’s ridiculous. I know plenty of cleaners that don’t, I know firemen that don’t because they are scared of heights.  Having worked as a school caretaker for £40 a shift I appreciate the value of money-  as long as I earn that I ain’t bothered but I obviously don’t put myself in that position every day I generally do them on my day off (Friday). Everyone runs there businesses differently, I don’t proclaim mines the best way but it suits me and I still enjoy it - which is the ultimate aim