Removing greying from frames

[Baldmonkey]

Interesting you say that as the reviews for the liquid haven’t been all that great.

I have both the paste and the liquid and genuinely the only reason I used liquid is because the label peels off easy peasy. Don't want everyone knowing what I use etc... Came right off with a 10p scourer, minimal scrubbing needed. (the greying, not the label) 

Ps went and bought 10 bottles yesterday incase all home bargains sold out because of windies everywhere ????

 

[Cleanco]

To tar anyone and everyone because they don't use a ladder and say wfp ain't up to the job to a point is laughable, it's all about technique and I would say I take my time more so on sills than some others, the reason I do this is because I have and do still work on new build estates which are still having houses built for the last 9 years or so, these jobs have helped me hone my craft as they simply can't be done as quickly and with wider pvc sills on some a Supreme brush which has longer bristles is far better than a smaller compact brush like an Ultimate. 

Simply been reliant on the magic water and quick swipe over either upper or lower sills isn't good enough and this is something some people blindly rely on , what you should know is that a brush will sit much flatter on upper sills so therefore extra work is required, my little trick is to place the brush on a lower sill and have it placed flatter like I think it will be on a upper sill and see how the brush performs and how the dirt and water does or doesn't move dependant on how I work the brush across the sill

Lads can go up ladders and use all the pink stuff and elbow grease they want on a first clean, but unless you have a refined technique for each subsequent clean, then to a point you have wasted your time, I don't work like a madman when I go to work clashing jobs out as fast as I can to maximise my turnover, I do the job right first time every time even if it takes me longer and I earn less so be it, some lads wouldn't last 5 minutes on the estates I cover with an almost splash and dash approach as every job can't be clashed out which is what some simply don't realise.  

I wouldn’t go as far as saying it’s not up to the job. Just sometimes there are easier and more profitable ways to do things which is what we are all in this for, the money. If doing a few climbs means I can do the same job in half the time then so be it. 

 

[Iron Giant]

I wouldn’t go as far as saying it’s not up to the job. Just sometimes there are easier and more profitable ways to do things which is what we are all in this for, the money. If doing a few climbs means I can do the same job in half the time then so be it. 

it's called wfp ?

 

[Part Timer]

You've misquoted there part timer, I didn’t call window cleaners that don’t use ladders ridiculous- I said I think it’s ridiculous. I know plenty of cleaners that don’t, I know firemen that don’t because they are scared of heights.  Having worked as a school caretaker for £40 a shift I appreciate the value of money-  as long as I earn that I ain’t bothered but I obviously don’t put myself in that position every day I generally do them on my day off (Friday). Everyone runs there businesses differently, I don’t proclaim mines the best way but it suits me and I still enjoy it - which is the ultimate aim

I'm not here to argue but the way you wrote you found it ridiculous when window cleaners don't use ladders is criticising window cleaners that don't. 

We all know that WFP has its limitations but just because I don't want to use ladders to clean windows, I do use them on gutter clears, it doesn't make me and others wrong. 

If I get asked to clean very badly marked gutters and sills I tell the customers that it won't come up 100% and if they want them done to that standard to get someone else. 

 

[Skxawng]

I used to do a restoration on each house on the first clean. Nowadays though, I just do a thorough job with degreaser and it brings them up 90% of the way for a quarter of the time. The difference is usually suitably impressive that they don't mind about the slight greying that won't shift. I tell them that the frames will slowly start getting better and better with regular cleaning.

A note on solvent. It does a great job with little effort but it works by softening the surface of the plastic. It works best on clean frames- you don't want to be softening the plastic then grinding dirt into it. Also very important- it needs buffing a few minutes afterwards with a clean cloth. If you clean it with solvent then leave it, it will have a matte finish and while appearing white it can look dull will get dirty fast and it will be a lot harder to clean. 

If you buff it, then it hardens with a glossy finish and is a lot easier to clean in the future. (It's all on the back of the bottles- people don't always read it though)

On some plastics it can turn them orange- notably on the frames of the little windows on plastic doors.

Also it doesn't seem to work on some plastics like guttering.

So do a test patch.

My friend mixes soudal industrial cream cleanser and uPVC solvent together and uses that on a wfp brush with very good results apparently, but I haven't tried it.

 

[Cleanco]

it's called wfp ?

Haha, funny guy. Don’t get me wrong wfp has been a revalation for window cleaners over this last 20 years or so but it’s not the be all and end all and sometimes just isn’t the best option. 

 

[Cleanco]

I used to do a restoration on each house on the first clean. Nowadays though, I just do a thorough job with degreaser and it brings them up 90% of the way for a quarter of the time. The difference is usually suitably impressive that they don't mind about the slight greying that won't shift. I tell them that the frames will slowly start getting better and better with regular cleaning.

A note on solvent. It does a great job with little effort but it works by softening the surface of the plastic. It works best on clean frames- you don't want to be softening the plastic then grinding dirt into it. Also very important- it needs buffing a few minutes afterwards with a clean cloth. If you clean it with solvent then leave it, it will have a matte finish and while appearing white it can look dull will get dirty fast and it will be a lot harder to clean. 

If you buff it, then it hardens with a glossy finish and is a lot easier to clean in the future. (It's all on the back of the bottles- people don't always read it though)

Also it doesn't seem to work on some plastics like guttering.

I class a restoration and a 1st clean as two separate things with restorations costing a damn sight more. I also explain this to the customer before I give an initial quote as to set up their expectations in what they are going to get. A first clean will not remove most greying, water stains etc and just covering things like surface dirt, green algae and bird muck etc. I’m not really keen on promoting restorations as you never really know how long they will take and can sometimes be more hassle than they are worth especially when your fully booked with easy maintenance cleans. 

 

[dazmond]

personally i dont care really if the upper sills are not "spot on" as long as i get paid and i dont have to get the ladders off the van!?

im past caring these days......?

100% not, you will have micro swirls or worse like these and I would assume you have flatted the paintwork as in it will feel flat to the touch, I was in a detailing shop with a mate a while back, were I buy some of my detailing stuff from and when my mate told the owner how I clean the van and he just laughed, admittedly I have never got around the sorting out the van paintwork as yet.

I would take to hand washing your motors and spending some money on some decent detailing/car washing gear, you could quite easily spend a £100 just on washing stuff and drying towels, the second pic is my wifes little car, you won't get that finish or look with wfp

The swirls in the pic, I have also noticed on some black garage doors I clean, but only on a bright sunny day, I believe these were caused when I was using a mono-filament brush, I think what we do in our job has some crossover relevance to cleaning certain surfaces in our job composite doors, those metal grey windows that some are having fitted and dark brown rosewood frames, non of which I would touch with any supermarket off the shelf products or magic sponges as these can and will damage the surfaces 

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your right....ive noticed some micro swirls on the roof of my golf(its metallic blue too so shows up more)but only if its a sunny day and the light is right.......no worries as its on lease........its going back after 3 years and ill just get another brand new one so not bothered too much really......?

 

[Iron Giant]

personally i dont care really if the upper sills are not "spot on" as long as i get paid and i dont have to get the ladders off the van!?

im past caring these days......?

your right....ive noticed some micro swirls on the roof of my golf(its metallic blue too so shows up more)but only if its a sunny day and the light is right.......no worries as its on lease........its going back after 3 years and ill just get another brand new one so not bothered too much really......?

That would all depend on how picky the lease company are they are getting more through in some cases, a mate of mate looked after his car like no one else and fully waxed it before returning it, which he did before a short holiday and came back to damaged paintwork from bird poo, they wanted to have him over for around £300 to paint the bonnet, just saying....

 

[Pjj]

Unless it’s a new house or already been cleaned recently I always use ladders on first cleans. I just like the peace of mind that all the dirt you cannot see from the ground is gone. I charge 2x for first cleans. Give them a once over with the pole and then again trad. It’s surprising how much extra dirt you remove from the corners etc with a scrape or a cloth compared to scrubbing with a brush. I’ve tried everything from chems to stiff brushes and have found that it’s far more efficient to trad them as well. You can find yourself scrubbing for ages then and when you get up their off your ladder only to find more engrained dirt that takes seconds to wipe off with a cloth/scrim. Ive found that first cleans can take up to 50% less time doing it this way rather than wfp alone. Btw I’m only cold wfp so that will make a difference compared to using hot but even if I was hot I’d still whip the ladder off just for peace of mind. I’m sorry but as a domestic window cleaner you simply cannot say that you doing the job to the best of you ability by using just a pole even if it is just for access although some will just cherry pick work that suits their style which is ok but I prefer to go for compacting my work whatever the method rather than only being able to do certain jobs by limitation by the method I use.

p.s I don’t know why any commercial lads are commenting on this as most jobs won’t even allow ladders on site so it’s not their choice as I’ve worked in the commercial sector before and the rules and regs are getting even tighter. 

This surprises me we find the total opposite, as an example  yesterday we did a first clean on a new job 4 bed detached house with white upvc windows and medium sized conservatory, it was built 5 years ago and never been cleaned , we were asked to clean all gutters Facias soffits windows and conservatory, after doing the up states windows from the ground wfp (hot) I had to get the ladder out to do the conservatory roof , the window sills were 100% as was the frames and before we started they were filthy with dirt and green with algy, when I was trad  I always found that getting right into the corners was almost impossible, but with wfp it was far easier , quicker and does a far superior job , I will add that it’s no use using an old knackered brush to try and get into the corners nor are some of the latest short  bristle brushes any good for this type of work   . I can honestly say when I was trad I tried to do a top notch job each time but wfp does a much better job 99% of the time . We are domestic and commercial cleaners  as you say we have certain clients where ladders are banned from site , but we only use ladders on domestic for access  not for cleaning unless it’s for a specific reason , when employing these day it gets very complicated using ladders as they have to be tested / checked regularly and a record of this  kept  staff training on ladder safety and so the list goes on , the ladder is a very useful thing and most window cleaners still need them  to a degree but I know a lot that have never had a ladder  I don’t know how they work as  I feel they are part of most  window cleaners tools , although we only use them occasionally. 

 

[Cleanco]

This surprises me we find the total opposite, as an example  yesterday we did a first clean on a new job 4 bed detached house with white upvc windows and medium sized conservatory, it was built 5 years ago and never been cleaned , we were asked to clean all gutters Facias soffits windows and conservatory, after doing the up states windows from the ground wfp (hot) I had to get the ladder out to do the conservatory roof , the window sills were 100% as was the frames and before we started they were filthy with dirt and green with algy, when I was trad  I always found that getting right into the corners was almost impossible, but with wfp it was far easier , quicker and does a far superior job , I will add that it’s no use using an old knackered brush to try and get into the corners nor are some of the latest short  bristle brushes any good for this type of work   . I can honestly say when I was trad I tried to do a top notch job each time but wfp does a much better job 99% of the time . We are domestic and commercial cleaners  as you say we have certain clients where ladders are banned from site , but we only use ladders on domestic for access  not for cleaning unless it’s for a specific reason , when employing these day it gets very complicated using ladders as they have to be tested / checked regularly and a record of this  kept  staff training on ladder safety and so the list goes on , the ladder is a very useful thing and most window cleaners still need them  to a degree but I know a lot that have never had a ladder  I don’t know how they work as  I feel they are part of most  window cleaners tools , although we only use them occasionally. 

That’s because your using hot as opposed to me using cold. We all know that hot water releases engrained dirt a lot faster than cold would hence your faster poling times. I always use wfp first to flush out the dirt from the bits you cannot get by trad and I agree that on maintenance cleans it’s second to none compared to trad. I just find that with the engrained stuff you can apply a lot more pressure doing it by hand than you can 20 foot away with a pole and is why it comes off a lot easier and quicker. 

 

[dazmond]

That would all depend on how picky the lease company are they are getting more through in some cases, a mate of mate looked after his car like no one else and fully waxed it before returning it, which he did before a short holiday and came back to damaged paintwork from bird poo, they wanted to have him over for around £300 to paint the bonnet, just saying....

project fear mate!......the swirls will come out if i buff them out.....theres already a few scratches on the back bumper and a minor dint in a side door....ill get a chap i know at chipsaway to come out a week or 2 before i hand it back...no major drama....?

 

[Iron Giant]

project fear mate!......the swirls will come out if i buff them out.....theres already a few scratches on the back bumper and a minor dint in a side door....ill get a chap i know at chipsaway to come out a week or 2 before i hand it back...no major drama....?

Are you buffing them out with a flocked brush ? 

 

[Incheck]

I agree hot water must be a lot better for removing embedded stuff (yellow spots) on glass etc when window cleaning. Cold water makes hard work of this so i often either use trad pole and blade or if theres lots of them i get up there. Trad has its limiations as does wfp, the number of windows & properties that are either inaccessible or downright dangerous for ladder work is astonishing. I reckon 50% of properties i clean would just be impossible trad (rockeries, cars in the way, extensions, connys, loft conversions, velux windows etc. i dont really believe there is one all out best way for cleaning a window, so i’ll mix and match. If a seal regularly bleeds i will trad that window.

I always advise customers that our preferred and recommended way is wfp because it leaves no soap screen behind for stuff to stick to, therefore the windows stay cleaner for longer. 

I actually trad the windows on my flat as i simply cba getting the wfp gear out, and i swear sometimes they are noticeably dirty after 3 weeks.

i have found the muc off claw to be the best thing for corners. Some cobwebs are a sod to remove wfp, not so much from the pane corners but the corners where the frame surround meets the masonry. 

Anyway, hope you’ve all had an easier week than me! Tuesday i managed to knock the side door off the van and had to have that fitted back on, and wednesday some nincompoop in a VW transporter knocked me wing mirror off and smashed it,  i heard him scream “f%#k” then he sped off at high speed and didnt offer to pay me for it ? so that was 2 hours and 45 quid taking it to fordthorne for new glass ?

every day struggles lol. So glad its the weekend i aaaam knackered

 

[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

because its just a standard cleaner that does a good job in a particular field, im not saying others dont but it just goes to show how much unger charge for rubout (as an example) and how much this is in comparison...ive only just started and throughout the planning of everything i had always envisaged using rubout as it was highly recommended by people including @Green Pro Clean Ltd in his videos.

i was surprised at the price per 500ml in comparison so thought id try the pink stuff first, it was good so why pay 20 times more???but thats just my opinion

The reason I pay more is because I have always found other general purpose cleaners leave a dull matte finishe on the pvc where as rubout leaves a nice sheen.  Although pricey a peasize dollop on a damp scourer goes a hell of a long way.  

 

[Oli]

CIF cream cleaner....squirt in on your brush and scrub away......the black frames will come up great trust me!....?

hope your charging well for them......

This is an interesting idea! Has any tried this on an fsg clean to try removing zebra stripes?

 

[mike007]

I’m a window cleaner, I find it ridiculous when window cleaners don’t use ladders. I do a ‘restoration’ on every house I clean. Don’t charge any extra. I’ve been on a house all day before and got paid £40 (normal 6 weekly price). Why? Because I take pride in my work and think of every customer as a blessing - they see I can do an awesome job and I actually give a ?, they don’t complain when I return and it’s raining, or takes me 30 minutes to earn that £40 the next time. When you have window cleaners charging a tenner for the same £40 house, window cleaners that offer 6 months free window cleaning - you have to go above and beyond. Yes I lose customers, not many, but I’m after quality not quantity and all my new customers come from recommendations. Going back to topic - apologies for the mini rant - does the pink stuff work? YES!  It’s a quid and it knocks the socks off Unger rub out. Is it the only thing I keep in my van? God no, the pink stuff will cure 90% of bleeding seals and oxidised frames, but if you can’t be bothered climbing a ladder to do a thorough job (and change more if that’s your bag) it’s not the miracle cure your after, their is no such thing (that I’ve found anyway) in Window Cleaning- just good old elbow grease which you can’t buy I’m afraid. What else do I use? Screwfix degreaser, bar keepers friend, solvent cleaner, isopropyl alcohol. I decided at the start I wanted to do the absolute best I could on every job I do. Using a combination of the above I can do that - but not everyone works like that which is fair enough!!

As you say at outset, you do a restoration clean not a first clean, big difference. And if you prefer to charge same for a restoration clean as you do for your maintenance cleans no problem with that as it is your business.

Personally I used to do a first clean at no additional charge to the maintenance clean rate, believe it removes one of the stumbling blocks of acquiring the customer. If I tell them it will cost £15 to do their house and they say yes I have £150 extra a year. If I tell them "Oh by way first clean will take longer so it will be £45" they would probably supply the bike they want me to get on

 

[steve garwood]

I find standard brushes tend to swipe over dirt on upper sills.

That’s why I use a sill brush which tends to grip the dirt because of the angle.

Never had a complaint in 13 years since switching to WFP about upper sills.

I’m buggered if I’m climbing up a ladder each time to check them, I just do them properly with my sill brush ?

 

[Robbo]

I got an old brush, unscrewed the quicklock connector and attached a magic sponge to the small flat side of the quicklock, using two heavy elastic bands.

It's a great little tool to use on upstairs window frames, or fascias etc.

Also, if you have an old brush, cut the bristles down to about 15mm long, this acts like a large toothbrush with extra scrubbing power.

Also, a small can of lighter fluid (the liquid) not the gas, is the best I have found for removing anything sticky from glass or plastic. It evaporates too.

Also, I attach an unger bottle pouch to my belt, the perfect size to keep a microfibre handy, you can keep it on all day and drive with it without any problem.