The Brexit Thread

[Part Timer]

Take lincolnshire as an example. Now as we know, vegetables are pretty cheap. so lets pay an extra 30% for our veg, and increase the wage 30%, and you will find English people who will do it.

The same applies to all jobs we "need" low skilled immigration to do. We are supposed to live in an economy that works on the basis of supply and demand. The fact that they can't get people to work in these industries tells you that there are easier better paid jobs. If a waiter services 10 tables twice a night he will probably serve circa 40 people. Can anyone honestly tell me that if each persons bill was £1 higher they wouldn't go in? That £40 could then allow the restaurant to pay an extra £30 a shift. Bet there would be a queue of British workers wanting to work in the hospitality industry. 

How many cabbages can someone pick in an hour? Let's just say that you can pick 100, fairly certain it will be double this, if the wage was £12 an hour then the extra cost would be circa 4p per cabbage. 

The problem with the above is this would cost big business money because they would then have to pay their skilled workers more, and make the current trend of telling young people you need a degree to do well in life the ridiculous thing it is. 

We are, to a degree, fortunate to have found a semi niche job. We earn more than top grade skilled workers and all we do is wash windows. Before I get slaughtered for the last sentence, I'm not under playing the hard work and stress of running your own business. 

 

[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

so lets pay an extra 30% for our veg, and increase the wage 30%, and you will find English people who will do it

No you wont..  here's the sad fact about our 'society' as a whole, the one Jumbo sized elephant in the room no one wants to admit.  This is what's wrong with 'GREAT BRITAIN' today. ....

ENTITLEMENT!   They all think they are ENTITLED to this and ENTITLED to that and ENTITLED to be a pop star and ENTITLED to be paid millions to sit home playing X-Box.  

You could offer £25 per hour to pick veg and you STILL wont find English people to do it (for more than a day) 

Before you all kick off about your morals on being a grafter well that's obvious otherwise we wouldn't be self employed window cleaners building business out of nothing.  We are the few EXCEPTIONS to the masses. 

Next time you're at the pub with your mates and they're all banging on about how hard they graft sit back and analyse how hard they actually work in their 8 hours a day 5 days a week collect a pay pack and go home jobs.  They graft as much as needed to ger the bare minimum done. 

It's our welfare state that screwed us, not the foreign workers.  

Here's a simple change that allows you to keep your benefits but changes the face of a nation. 

You can no longer apply for benefit on line. 

Now you have to go to the local benefits office EVERY Friday to sign on.  Miss a signing and the whole process needs to be restarted.  No timed appointments, first come first seen.  

'I been sitting here all day waiting.....' so what?you're on benefits? Not like you got a job to get to! 

The sheer boost in employment just from numbers needed to man the offices to deal with everyone would make huge dents in reducing unemployment.  As would the knock on of dole dossers realizing what a ball ache being at the dole office 6-7-8 hours a week waiting to sign on would be so instead they went and got a job!   

Take away ENTITLEMENT and the problem is solved. 

 

[cloudnine]

Also lets start manufacturing some of our own things again. A great english car, for the low end market, and mid range market, from scratch, all produced here. same with washing machines, stereos etc. 

This is now a thing of the past... the world is changing and moving forward not back to some now unobtainable golden age where we actually manufactured lots of our own goods.   Manufacturing is done where there is cheap skilled labour (not the UK).. we wont be making these things again unless our country goes right down the pan and china exports its sweatshops to where there is cheap labour...  Its just how it is now.  If anything a hard Brexit will force more companies out of the UK.. as customs (red tape which the Brexiteers always hated) and supply will become a royal ball ache.  For example.. Why would a company continue to make cars here if there was a mountain of customs work for various parts imported to the UK from all around the EU and the world.  It would add a huge amount of unnecessary admin, and customs fees etc..     Why risk having supply issues and customs delays plus adding costs to the final product due to new import tariffs.   They'll just move their car assembly plant to Poland.  Goodbye 1000's of jobs in Sunderland... but its what they would have voted for...

 

[ks789]

This is now a thing of the past... the world is changing and moving forward not back to some now unobtainable golden age where we actually manufactured lots of our own goods.   Manufacturing is done where there is cheap skilled labour (not the UK).. we wont be making these things again unless our country goes right down the pan and china exports its sweatshops to where there is cheap labour...  Its just how it is now.  If anything a hard Brexit will force more companies out of the UK.. as customs (red tape which the Brexiteers always hated) and supply will become a royal ball ache.  For example.. Why would a company continue to make cars here if there was a mountain of customs work for various parts imported to the UK from all around the EU and the world.  It would add a huge amount of unnecessary admin, and customs fees etc..     Why risk having supply issues and customs delays plus adding costs to the final product due to new import tariffs.   They'll just move their car assembly plant to Poland.  Goodbye 1000's of jobs in Sunderland... but its what they would have voted for...
 

defeatist. Obviously it will be hard to start, no one denies that, but precisely because of the difficulty etc is why we start doing it ourselves, all the part etc manufactured here. There are plastic moulding companies, metal working companies and so on and so on, and a lot of skilled business people who can get it together. Not all of them have gone down the remain road, some have vision, and may actually care for the country.

 

[cloudnine]

defeatist. Obviously it will be hard to start, no one denies that, but precisely because of the difficulty etc is why we start doing it ourselves, all the part etc manufactured here. There are plastic moulding companies, metal working companies and so on and so on, and a lot of skilled business people who can get it together. Not all of them have gone down the remain road, some have vision, and may actually care for the country.

So who would fund it?  The present government prefers to run things for profit or privatise everything..

If the current shambles of a Tory government built it.. it would resemble something like a Trabant ?

 

[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

The same applies to all jobs we "need" low skilled immigration to do. We are supposed to live in an economy that works on the basis of supply and demand. The fact that they can't get people to work in these industries tells you that there are easier better paid jobs. If a waiter services 10 tables twice a night he will probably serve circa 40 people. Can anyone honestly tell me that if each persons bill was £1 higher they wouldn't go in? That £40 could then allow the restaurant to pay an extra £30 a shift. Bet there would be a queue of British workers wanting to work in the hospitality industry. 

How many cabbages can someone pick in an hour? Let's just say that you can pick 100, fairly certain it will be double this, if the wage was £12 an hour then the extra cost would be circa 4p per cabbage. 

The problem with the above is this would cost big business money because they would then have to pay their skilled workers more, and make the current trend of telling young people you need a degree to do well in life the ridiculous thing it is. 

We are, to a degree, fortunate to have found a semi niche job. We earn more than top grade skilled workers and all we do is wash windows. Before I get slaughtered for the last sentence, I'm not under playing the hard work and stress of running your own business. 

Totally wrong on the same above principle @Part Timer  your math is right but..... and here it is..... you example relies on the restaurant owner or the farmer PASSING on the profits to the workers.  

We're about to get a load of posts about how members have done this job and that job and the  other but fact is most are done from their armchair (imagined)  but as a boy, mid teens, I used to work the hoppers on Norfolk potato farms. Back then the labour pool were backpackers, young Aussies, Kiwis, Canadians and some northern Europeans.  We were paid below minimum as meals and board were included and we all lived together in bunk houses on the farm.   We still drank on Fridays and saved enough to buy a ticket to the next place we were heading and life was an adventure. 

Having actually worked the farms as a picker I don't care what you say...... the British will never queue up to pick veg, even for £20 or £30 per hour.   Sure they may last a couple of days but this nation as a WHOLE lacks the work ethics of our European cousins.   

 

[Part Timer]

Totally wrong on the same above principle @Part Timer  your math is right but..... and here it is..... you example relies on the restaurant owner or the farmer PASSING on the profits to the workers.  

Without cheap foreign Labour they would have to pay a wage to attract British workers to work there or close. The numbers used are just an example of how these industries could afford to pay decent wages. 

 

[scottish cleaning service]

British people will do anything if the money is right. Only need to look at bankrobbers and thieves. It all comes down to risk verses reward which we use everyday when crossing the road. The problem with the UK is that it is following Sweden by becoming a knowledge society. Children grow up now in a computer environment and don't care for much else bar money. You pay a picker £30 an hour and the queue will be all the way to Scotland and I'll be first in it. :1f911:

 

[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

Without cheap foreign Labour they would have to pay a wage to attract British workers to work there or close. The numbers used are just an example of how these industries could afford to pay decent wages. 

I don'r disagree with the examples PT.  

Perhaps I haven't been clear in explaining myself.   

The general British public are too f¥£€_/g lazy to do any real manual labour work for almost ant price!   That's thr real problem....  not finding the money.  

 

[scottish cleaning service]

They are lazy because of their parents giving them so much money and goods. I will go to my brothers house this Christmas and the spare room is full of toys, some never even opened. Only has two young boys. I have to get them the same present or they will argue all day about who got what. I like you Darren worked when I was ten years old or I got no money because my mum was a single parent. Now you hardly see youths delivering the newspapers or helping out. Times have changed But it all comes down to the parents.

 

[ks789]

Totally wrong on the same above principle @Part Timer  your math is right but..... and here it is..... you example relies on the restaurant owner or the farmer PASSING on the profits to the workers.  

We're about to get a load of posts about how members have done this job and that job and the  other but fact is most are done from their armchair (imagined)  but as a boy, mid teens, I used to work the hoppers on Norfolk potato farms. Back then the labour pool were backpackers, young Aussies, Kiwis, Canadians and some northern Europeans.  We were paid below minimum as meals and board were included and we all lived together in bunk houses on the farm.   We still drank on Fridays and saved enough to buy a ticket to the next place we were heading and life was an adventure. 

Having actually worked the farms as a picker I don't care what you say...... the British will never queue up to pick veg, even for £20 or £30 per hour.   Sure they may last a couple of days but this nation as a WHOLE lacks the work ethics of our European cousins.   

Some have, im english and me and some friends have done fruit picking jobs etc, and right up to a few years ago on this local apple picking farm everyone was english. And your also wrong about we lack the work ethics of our european cousins. My last job paye at a local plastics and electronics factory employed a lot of temp staff over the years. i only left there 4 years ago. Now the fact is, some of the foreigners were good, some were ****. They had to lay numerous ones off for not turning up, or turning up late. And then I remember one who was outraged that he had to do stuff that the full time skilled ones didnt do, he didnt realise he was just a temp to do what needed doing at the time. then there was another one who as soon as boss was gone would do f all. whereas we would all still soldier on. so fair enough for anyones opinion, but I aint lying or imagining it, Im telling you how it was. 

 

[ks789]

They are lazy because of their parents giving them so much money and goods. I will go to my brothers house this Christmas and the spare room is full of toys, some never even opened. Only has two young boys. I have to get them the same present or they will argue all day about who got what. I like you Darren worked when I was ten years old or I got no money because my mum was a single parent. Now you hardly see youths delivering the newspapers or helping out. Times have changed But it all comes down to the parents.

There is a lot of this, its true. They made it too easy fir some to get dole and do nothing. I know theres areas where there are literally naff all jobs, but some areas theres no excuse. Also I believe a big problem for england has been the one parent family thing, whole estates where hardly any dads and the boy has no one to give him that push etc, and they end up smpking skunk weed and wasting their lives away. The govt didnt do any favours by encouraging one parent families and not encouraging the family.

 

[scottish cleaning service]

When Labour came to power they gave out money like sweeties. They encouraged one parent families not to work because the benefits were so good. They gave you money for any illness you had. Suddenly everyone was walking with a walking stick and wetting the bed. With Self-Preservation the first rule of the human being and money needed to survive leads to one thing, take all you can get incase you miss out. That's why we nearly went bankrupt when they left. I noticed in the fire service that when someone indented for a free pair of training shoes because they had to provide them. Once the person walked in and everyone seen them, everyone indented for a pair of free training shoes because they had set a precedent. Glasgow has the most benefits per head of population in the UK, its in our culture not to miss out.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-46635722

This micro lending facility worked in Bangladesh so the  Nobel Peace Prize winner Prof Muhammad Yunus

thought it would work in Glasgow. What he failed to understand is, Glaswegians are as wide as the Clyde and will happily accept free money but don't like handing it back when one can have a party with it.

 

[P4dstar]

ENTITLEMENT!   They all think they are ENTITLED to this and ENTITLED to that and ENTITLED to be a pop star and ENTITLED to be paid millions to sit home playing X-Box

There are a lot of these benefit scroungers but I don't think at the moment they are the big problem, neither are low paid unskilled European migrants. The mainstream media have us all arguing over benefit scroungers and migrants while our government lets major companies like Boots and Amazon get away with billions in tax.

With regards to entitlement the next generation in the one that worries me. The children who are currently 10-20 years old. They are being brought up in a world where they should be allowed to choose their gender as a regular every day occurrence instead of an out of the ordinary choice. They are told that being born a white male is privilege. To top it all off there is a major political party that is spouting socialist propaganda and making them believe that wealth should be shared... Whats the point in working hard then!?!? I have first hand knowledge of this when my 16 year old son argues with me that Communism is a good political model ?

 

[THL4KEL]

Hopefully we come out of the EU and some sense comes back to their country. My first job was aged nine paper boy, by thirteen years old I was a hotel porter carrying cases and serving pints behind a hotel bar. I was brought up in a holiday town and every kid worked, either in hotels, guest houses, cafes, restaurants, or leisure facilities. I go there now the whole place is run by adult Eastern Europeans workers no kids working. Working from a young age built a work ethic in me. The amount of skills I picked up from dealing with people handling cash ect ect built a foundation for proper employment. Kids today just don't get a chance. When I was at Uni I worked in food manufacturing factories. All that food now is manufactured and sent over from other EU countries. Loads of students were working like that in the late nineties. It's a myth Brits won't work. Yes there are a lot of lazy ar5es who grew up in houses where the parents were benefit dependent, but theres plenty of good hard working Brits out there. Having worked in heavy construction in the middle East and Australia I can tell you for certain on big projects for global oil and gas companies, British workers are sought after, because we have some of the best workers on the planet who get the job done. People with backgrounds from proper qualified engineers, project managers, project control personnel all the way down to trade level boiler makers, diesel fitters, sparkies, every trade even trade assistants.

 

[scottish cleaning service]

The only thing that motivated me when I was young was money and that's why I worked. To build a comfortable life you need money that's why wage rises are so important. When inflation goes up each year and you don't get a wage rise then its a wage cut. That's why our public sector is getting worse because the employer is not respecting their employees. Humans then become demoralized and wonder why bother which leads to a downward spiral. The happiest countries in the world are also the richest. There is a correlation between being rich and happy. Have you ever seen a happy bankrupt!  

 

[ks789]

I see where your coming from, but also I will say its not the happiest who earn loads. Look at the tribal societies, money means nothing, they live a simple life, food, warmth and family. we used to be like that pre roman times, but now we're in the rat race, for better or worse. I think we can learn a lot from the old school, but at the moment its what it is. and if you want a decent standard you graft and if you dont graft then you get what you put in. 

 

[THL4KEL]

What has changed in the Western world is peoples access to a line of credit in the last thirty years. Thirty years ago there wasn't a need for the brand new German motor on the drive, the brand new house, multiple holidays per year, brand new smart phone. Big business has tapped into the human desire for wanting materialistic goods. Years ago people lived a simpler life. 

Some nights I watch the old episodes of Bullseye TV show, look how simpler people wants and needs were back then. People are trained now to strive for happiness through purchasing new goods but twelve months down the line that product has been updated and a new desire for the updated version is now developed in the consumer.

I look at the list of world's best places to live they tend to have highly expensive property markets and in a lot of instances an average wage, well your not going to be buying a house and if you do it's going to take two good incomes so if your're married thats both partners working full-time which creates a need for someone to bring up your kids. 

Im old fashioned me, you have kids you bring up your kids yourself. Today for many that's another part of life which has been outsourced for someone else to do for you.

 

[ks789]

too true. life was harder, but they didnt have the stress and all that we have today.  back then it was Simple problems, simple food simple beer simple mrs, I dunno, we look back with rose tinted glasses. But I cant help seeing how my old parents were much more contented and unstressed. ( I havent cahanged the writing, mustve tapped wrong button coz of beer) we will get there. Its just major upheavals for us all.  :1f44d:

 

[Part Timer]

Showing my age again ? When I got married, 1982, my average wage, plus 12 hours a week overtime, bought a small house and enabled my Wife to stay at home and look after the first born. She didn't go to work until the second child was 5. Struggled financially but could just about afford it. God forbid a working man try to afford it nowadays 

 

[Iron Giant]

Well said part timer. i think a lot of people think they are just being kind and liberal to our foreign neighbours, but they dont realise the harm its done to our own. Look at the desperate situation across vast swathes of our old industrial towns. Skilled hard working men wasted, how dare anyone have the shortsighted blinkedness to call them lazy. They made this nation. Now, they used to be on a decent wage but are now expected to live/bring up a family on minimum wage if at all. Yes, thats true as well about the big business loving it, cheap labour to increase their profit, not much surprise the rich have been getting richer, the gulf widening. Why should our own folk have to share a house with loads of others just to afford to earn the pittance they pay. And we dont get the bonus of being able to buy cheap property in our own country at the end of it. Take lincolnshire as an example. Now as we know, vegetables are pretty cheap. so lets pay an extra 30% for our veg, and increase the wage 30%, and you will find English people who will do it.

Also lets start manufacturing some of our own things again. A great english car, for the low end market, and mid range market, from scratch, all produced here. same with washing machines, stereos etc. 

And if your bob geldoffs and co dont like it, then let them bog off. good riddance.

There is a firm called Ebac which is local to me that makes washing machines, but products really need to be given a chance to take off, British made cars are available in a way although by foreign companies take Nissan, for example, they have invested millions over the years in a plant in the North East and there are other brands as well. But yes admittedly a lot of manufacturing has moved abroad in the town down the road from me there was Black & Decker, Electrolux and Rothmans which each employed 100's if not more each all gone now and they paid a decent wage and provided pensions it's all a thing of the past now.