Univalve vs one shot vs wfp link... Full review

[dazmond]

Talking about over complicating a simple job!....?

While your faffing about  with a one shot or wfp link  I'll be cracking on and finishing early as usual with all my work completed.....

No need for either.....its trying to solve a problem that isn't there in the first place IMO....

A univalve is all you need or a tap/nip your hose....as for pressure build up you need to alter your CAL settings mate...takes 2 mins...

 

[Baldmonkey]

Not an option for me and I'm taking this slightly off topic but interested in feedback.

I've been working for years using Gardiner backpacks with univalves. Got a 400 litre tank in the van, a submersible pump in there that feeds a 30mm hose coming up out of the lid top, when I flick the switch it fills the backpack in a few seconds. 

I've considered on many occasions wether I would be any quicker working directly from a reel. At present I grab the backpack, drop it at the front of the house and if I've got a run of three houses I have enough pole hose to get all the way round every house without moving the backpack.

I only have a couple of very large houses where I have to return to the van for a refill.

The advantages of doing things the way I do (in my mind) are I don't have so much hose to run out or worry about someone tripping over, it's quicker to get it back in the van as I don't have a hose to rewind (just make big bights in the pole hose and hook it high), no low outlet on my tank so very low chance of flooding the van, ability to get round to places where the parking is remote, being able to take it through to back of properties where there is no rear access and I've obviously saved some money on equipment.

The disadvantages (that I can think of) are having to return to the van on the big houses, humping the backpack around, space taken up in the van, I'm sure there's others and most on here will be working from reels and I'd be interested to know if it's really worth the layout. I do know one other, very experienced window cleaner that has a full system but works in the same way that I do which seems odd.

This isn't a personal slant on you or anybody else that uses a similar setup, but this is my honest opinion on the way many people work from trolleys. 

1, you don't appear very professional to an outsider, what I mean by that is someone walking down the street or peering out thier window may look and see someone who isnt very serious or "playing" at window cleaning, dragging a toy around behind them and not seeming to be very serious in their profession. You will get lumped in with the scroaty looking ladder monkies who only want money for beer or nose dust, who turn up saying they've done your windows when they haven't.... All this sometimes can be made on a first impression and can take but a second. 

2, dont care what you say or how many facts and figures you throw at me, you can't possibly do as thorough a job washing/rinsing than if you had a 600l tank to go at. It's human nature to avoid unnecessary labour and the balancing act is do you have a faster flow rate and fill up a lot more or do you have a lower rate of flow and squeeze two houses out of one fill up instead of one. 

3, the MAJORITY of customers I take on/speak to/know personally that say "my old window cleaner used to use one of them and always left streaks" that follow that sentence with "he used to drag a trolley or tank behind him" is unreal, and that usually stems from point two, can't be assed filling up so uses the water frugally. It's not rocket science. 

4, no hot water, unless you fill you 25 ltr tubs up with piping hot water and then insulate them, your using cold water, again my mum always said "you can't clean nothing with cold water" 

5, needless hard work... I get some people start out like this, or even masochisticlly enjoy doing the extra grunt work, but to do it forever and never reinvest in newr better equipment is just obsurd.. Which leads back to point one. 

Again these are just my honest thoughts and opinions and understand if anyone disagrees

 

[danzlfc]

Might be slightly off topic but in case it helps anyone in regard to the price of univalve, if you just need one your best buying on eBay for just shy of £40 delivered but if you need multiple the best I’ve found is a pack of 3 on window cleaning warehouse and then add a 10%off code such as tradman10 and you will be getting 3 univalves delivered for £90 that’s including vat 

 

[Baldmonkey]

Talking about over complicating a simple job!....?

While your faffing about  with a one shot or wfp link  I'll be cracking on and finishing early as usual with all my work completed.....

No need for either.....its trying to solve a problem that isn't there in the first place IMO....

A univalve is all you need or a tap/nip your hose....as for pressure build up you need to alter your CAL settings mate...takes 2 mins...

Wfp systems are over complicating a traditional window cleaner but your still using the wfp!! ?

Whilst your pulling a hose, I'm pressing a button, why would that mean you finish earlier??? ?

Cal settings are fine. ?

No need for either, yet you choose a univalve over pinching the hose and yet you choose this even though there is no problem,.. Feel like neo in the matrix with that logic ?

It's fine to have an opinion or choice but at least talk sense if your gonna be so bombastic with your replies

 

[Baldmonkey]

Might be slightly off topic but in case it helps anyone in regard to the price of univalve, if you just need one your best buying on eBay for just shy of £40 delivered but if you need multiple the best I’ve found is a pack of 3 on window cleaning warehouse and then add a 10%off code such as tradman10 and you will be getting 3 univalves delivered for £90 that’s including vat 

Or buy a one shot for 2/3 the price

 

[Tango]

Univalve is available for £39 on ebay - including the ebay charges being covered... £45??? - Manufacturers often mark stuff up higher than their bulk buying customers - they don't want the hassle of selling to the public but will do it for a few extra quid. This way they can shift stuff in bulk to their own wholesale customers (while making them look cheaper - helping them shift stock) who will buy loads with no hassle vs selling to hundreds / thousands of customers who might ring up with tech support questions, warranty  woes etc. Hornby do the same with their model railway stuff - they will sell it direct to the public but at a far higher price than their wholesale customers. 

Going back to the univalve that £39 ebay fee includes postage and ebay fees. I also saw it on another site for £32 (no idea about postage) - think it was window cleaning warehouse?

As for the WFP link, some might like, others mignt not. You're not obliged to have one but if you do then you can still use it in conjunction with a univalve and have the best of both worlds - variable speed and instant flow / cutoff. I'll agree though that i've noticed a high pressure spurt of water when turning on the flow again via the valve but at the same time it's momentary and the pump isn't running - only kicking back in once it detects that there's no dead end again. Remember also with springs WFP Link you can also adjust the DE retest time - meaning that the high pressure spurt might not even cause the pump to start up again for several seconds.

What i would say about the WFP Link though is that there is a MASSIVE security whole with them. ANYONE can scan and connect to your remote. Your remote is live 24/7 and the controller is also in passive mode listening for an on / off command (in other words it's never truly off - it just turns off the display and the ability to send signals to the pump). With this in mind, if your competitors aren't eh friendly sort and want to screw you up, they could potentially in the middle of the night, pull up, connect to your fob (if it's in the van), turn it on and try to pump out your tank for you - flooding your van if you've got no valve to stop it or draining your leisure battery for the next days work instead. While it's unlikely to happen it is an attack vector that is wide open to abuse. Spring will suggest that the fob has to be paired to the controller - and they're right but that's no good if absolutely anyone can connect to the fob as it still provides a way into your controller directly.

 

[Baldmonkey]

Univalve is available for £39 on ebay - including the ebay charges being covered... £45??? - Manufacturers often mark stuff up higher than their bulk buying customers - they don't want the hassle of selling to the public but will do it for a few extra quid. This way they can shift stuff in bulk to their own wholesale customers (while making them look cheaper - helping them shift stock) who will buy loads with no hassle vs selling to hundreds / thousands of customers who might ring up with tech support questions, warranty  woes etc. Hornby do the same with their model railway stuff - they will sell it direct to the public but at a far higher price than their wholesale customers. 

Going back to the univalve that £39 ebay fee includes postage and ebay fees. I also saw it on another site for £32 (no idea about postage) - think it was window cleaning warehouse?

As for the WFP link, some might like, others mignt not. You're not obliged to have one but if you do then you can still use it in conjunction with a univalve and have the best of both worlds - variable speed and instant flow / cutoff. I'll agree though that i've noticed a high pressure spurt of water when turning on the flow again via the valve but at the same time it's momentary and the pump isn't running - only kicking back in once it detects that there's no dead end again. Remember also with springs WFP Link you can also adjust the DE retest time - meaning that the high pressure spurt might not even cause the pump to start up again for several seconds.

What i would say about the WFP Link though is that there is a MASSIVE security whole with them. ANYONE can scan and connect to your remote. Your remote is live 24/7 and the controller is also in passive mode listening for an on / off command (in other words it's never truly off - it just turns off the display and the ability to send signals to the pump). With this in mind, if your competitors aren't eh friendly sort and want to screw you up, they could potentially in the middle of the night, pull up, connect to your fob (if it's in the van), turn it on and try to pump out your tank for you - flooding your van if you've got no valve to stop it or draining your leisure battery for the next days work instead. While it's unlikely to happen it is an attack vector that is wide open to abuse. Spring will suggest that the fob has to be paired to the controller - and they're right but that's no good if absolutely anyone can connect to the fob as it still provides a way into your controller directly.

I'm not even going to get in the price again as even at £39 you can still buy a one shot for less than the price of two. 

What I am going to dive straight into is the window cleaning espionage of tango.. So let me get this right, your car uses a remote, your house alarm can, gate openers use them and everything on your phone, tablet or pc can be hacked via a signal... But the signal code of my remote for my water is what they are going to be after ????

So dave the jealous ladder monkey who spends his days dragging round a dented ladder and a bucket of dirty water whilst scratching his ass is now going out to spend hundreds of pounds on advanced signal scanning equipment, pull his drunk cocaine fuelled body out of bed in the middle of the night to drive to my house in the vain hope that I haven't got a rectus fitting on my hose or my van batteries on charge... Just so he can empty my water out of my tank. 

Dude you either need to stop the drinking and coke fuelled binges yourself or step away from the VHS James bond box set you watch every night with your tea on a tray ????

 

[Tango]

I'm not even going to get in the price again as even at £39 you can still buy a one shot for less than the price of two. 

What I am going to dive straight into is the window cleaning espionage of tango.. So let me get this right, your car uses a remote, your house alarm can, gate openers use them and everything on your phone, tablet or pc can be hacked via a signal... But the signal code of my remote for my water is what they are going to be after ????

So dave the jealous ladder monkey who spends his days dragging round a dented ladder and a bucket of dirty water whilst scratching his ass is now going out to spend hundreds of pounds on advanced signal scanning equipment, pull his drunk cocaine fuelled body out of bed in the middle of the night to drive to my house in the vain hope that I haven't got a rectus fitting on my hose or my van batteries on charge... Just so he can empty my water out of my tank. 

Dude you either need to stop the drinking and coke fuelled binges yourself or step away from the VHS James bond box set you watch every night with your tea on a tray ????

I also do programming and have to think of security exploits in order to counter them.

I could be wrong, Spring might have come up with a way to counter this but i've not seen any sign of it and it's not in their instructions either.

Here's what i'll do.. i'll get the woman i live with to install the app on her advanced signal scanning equipment and see if she can connect and control my controller via the fob. I'll get back to you..

 

[Baldmonkey]

I also do programming and have to think of security exploits in order to counter them.

I could be wrong, Spring might have come up with a way to counter this but i've not seen any sign of it and it's not in their instructions either.

Here's what i'll do.. i'll get the woman i live with to install the app on her advanced signal scanning equipment and see if she can connect and control my controller via the fob. I'll get back to you..

Fair enough but my missus doesn't have advance signal scanning equipment, think I'm safe and will take my chances ???

 

[Tango]

Your missus doesn't have a mobile phone? - Find that hard to believe in this day and age.. but fair plays..

 

[Master Jedi Alejandro]

Err direct from their website, if you want one univalve with NO hose, all in its over £45. And yes they have to make money, I'm not foolish but charging that amount of money for something that probably costs less than £1 to make is daylight bloody robber in my book. 

View attachment 22452

Yeah but you get it cheaper from third part vendors, which most will. You said yourself to google for the prices of others. Also, many folk do a discount if you buy multiple of them. And most do free delivery over £50. 
 

don’t get me wrong, £40 isn’t ‘cheap’ and I wouldn’t spend it without thinking, but we’re talking about a piece of equipment designed to last thousands of uses (everytime you turn it off and on). I’m sure it’s more than £1 in plastic, never mind the R&D costs. Could they be sold cheaper? Yeah probably, but I wouldn’t call it robbery, look at the prices for other stuff we need. 

 

[Master Jedi Alejandro]

Or buy a one shot for 2/3 the price

Yeah it you said yourself the range isn’t that good, so it’s either £40 for a univalve or £247 for the WFP Link. 

 

[Baldmonkey]

Yeah it you said yourself the range isn’t that good, so it’s either £40 for a univalve or £247 for the WFP Link. 

No I said it wasn't bad at all, some blackspots, it's still has good range for 98 percent of the work, don't know why you would choose to pay more for an item that you need to fit to every single pile you use when for less than the price of two you can do away with the need for any in any pole, that is of course your perogative and far be it from me to think my opinion matters more than another, but value for money dictates its the sensible option around. 

 

[Baldmonkey]

Yeah but you get it cheaper from third part vendors, which most will. You said yourself to google for the prices of others. Also, many folk do a discount if you buy multiple of them. And most do free delivery over £50. 
 

don’t get me wrong, £40 isn’t ‘cheap’ and I wouldn’t spend it without thinking, but we’re talking about a piece of equipment designed to last thousands of uses (everytime you turn it off and on). I’m sure it’s more than £1 in plastic, never mind the R&D costs. Could they be sold cheaper? Yeah probably, but I wouldn’t call it robbery, look at the prices for other stuff we need. 

Yes you are going to find deals and possibly get better bundles, but chances are you're still going to be able to by something that can do away with putting an expensive valve in every pole you own for the price of 2 of the valves... No brainer if I'm honest. 

R&D on a valve like that would have been minimal in comparison to many many other products. The tooling probably cost a few grand or so for all the parts and trust me when I tell you, that part can be produced for less than a £1...im not here to defend my opinion or knowledge of manufacturing, I was just giving a review from my perspective on the products available. If you want to spend that much on a valve, fill your boots, have fun and good luck to you

 

[Tango]

R&D on a valve like that would have been minimal in comparison to many many other products. The tooling probably cost a few grand or so for all the parts and trust me when I tell you, that part can be produced for less than a £1

I'll buy a couple from you then once you've made them. It'll only cost you less than £1 to make so shouldn't be a big job - delivery by next weekend okay?

Cheers mate ?

 

[Baldmonkey]

I'll buy a couple from you then once you've made them. It'll only cost you less than £1 to make so shouldn't be a big job - delivery by next weekend okay?

Cheers mate ?

Mine will be £100 each sorry

 

[steve garwood]

Got 3 univalves fitted, and also a one shot. 
Univalves for collapsing/erecting the pole, and one shot for when I fancy a chat with a customer. (No back pressure on the pump) 

Simples ?

 

[Master Jedi Alejandro]

I was just giving a review from my perspective on the products available.

Ohh 100%, I just thought it would be productive to counter, as no doubt folk will read this when starting out and trying to decided what to buy. 
 

On the side, I do think we need a proper review section on this forum where we can pull together our combined knowledge and experience. Would be good for folk as there is more and more stuff out there!

 

[Tango]

Mine will be £100 each sorry

Boot on the other for now eh?

 

[Baldmonkey]

Boot on the other for now eh?

Well there seems to be so many people flocking to pay top dollar for these bits of plastic I thought I'd mop up ?????

 

[Tango]

What i would say about the WFP Link though is that there is a MASSIVE security whole with them. ANYONE can scan and connect to your remote. Your remote is live 24/7 and the controller is also in passive mode listening for an on / off command (in other words it's never truly off - it just turns off the display and the ability to send signals to the pump). With this in mind, if your competitors aren't eh friendly sort and want to screw you up, they could potentially in the middle of the night, pull up, connect to your fob (if it's in the van), turn it on and try to pump out your tank for you - flooding your van if you've got no valve to stop it or draining your leisure battery for the next days work instead.

What I am going to dive straight into is the window cleaning espionage of tango.. So let me get this right, your car uses a remote, your house alarm can, gate openers use them and everything on your phone, tablet or pc can be hacked via a signal... But the signal code of my remote for my water is what they are going to be after ????

So dave the jealous ladder monkey who spends his days dragging round a dented ladder and a bucket of dirty water whilst scratching his ass is now going out to spend hundreds of pounds on advanced signal scanning equipment, pull his drunk cocaine fuelled body out of bed in the middle of the night to drive to my house in the vain hope that I haven't got a rectus fitting on my hose or my van batteries on charge... Just so he can empty my water out of my tank. 

Dude you either need to stop the drinking and coke fuelled binges yourself or step away from the VHS James bond box set you watch every night with your tea on a tray ????

I also do programming and have to think of security exploits in order to counter them.

I could be wrong, Spring might have come up with a way to counter this but i've not seen any sign of it and it's not in their instructions either.

Here's what i'll do.. i'll get the woman i live with to install the app on her advanced signal scanning equipment and see if she can connect and control my controller via the fob. I'll get back to you..

Right, the results are in. I was indeed correct. I was able to install the app on her phone and then connect to my remote control with no security challenge of any type - and then connect my phone again straight after.

Proof:

  

Obviously i didn't turn the pump up from 0 lol (there is a ez snap / rectus but it still wouldn't feel right). The point is, a connection was made and the DE setting was visible at 63 along with the battery status on the settings screen.

My point remains, a competitor could connect to the fob and attempt to drain the tank (flooding your vehicle) or simply drain the battery by having the controller continually testing for dead ends all night.