Water marks left again!! ???

[Iron Giant]

@scottish cleaning service you should know by now, in the length of time you have been on here and the posts you must have read including this one, that there is far more to wfp than meets the eye, different windows can present different issues/challenges and a first clean will always take around 3 times longer than a regular clean and hot water won't make a difference it's about technique and doing the job right. 

Racing around like a whirlwind is aka Slap & dash, more so on fist cleans as they can't be rushed no matter how clean you think the frames are as there is nearly always a whole load of dirt trapped behind the openers. 

 

[scottish cleaning service]

I wish it was just first cleans. I am back using the ladders but i can put my prices up next year if i want to because i realised how much my customers need me. Good learning experience.

 

[wee man]

I wish it was just first cleans. I am back using the ladders but i can put my prices up next year if i want to because i realised how much my customers need me. Good learning experience.

So you admitting defeat before you've even started? Don't forget everyone went through this and we all pushed through.  Once you get it mastered it does a better job then trad and the windows stay clean for longer.  Even trad man now uses a wfp .Lol 

I would check your tds with another meter and change your brush in case there's something on it. 

 

[scottish cleaning service]

If i carry on then i won't have any customers to use wfp on anyway. I have given them the choice and mostly all want me to go back to ladders or they cancel its as simple as that. I can still use it on the flats, pvc cleans, solar panels and garage doors. When one is trapped in a care home's canteen surrounded by a dozen old women demanding the return of the squeegee, its a bit intimidating to say the least, one has to cave in. ???

 

[Pjj]

If i carry on then i won't have any customers to use wfp on anyway. I have given them the choice and mostly all want me to go back to ladders or they cancel its as simple as that. I can still use it on the flats, pvc cleans, solar panels and garage doors. When one is trapped in a care home's canteen surrounded by a dozen old women demanding the return of the squeegee, its a bit intimidating to say the least, one has to cave in. ???

We do dozens of care/nursing homes and never get a spot every window is perfect , that’s not boasting it’s just a fact of careful workmanship some of the jobs we do have hundreds of windows the pictures is just part of it and this is one of the smaller ones , it’s purely down to your technique and inexperience we have all been there , just take your time it will come fine .

 

[Pjj]

This hotel is less than 100 meters from the sea we do it every 4 weeks and in winter the windows are opaque with salt and have sand and sometimes sea weed on the glass after its been cleaned there isn’t a single spot , you need to persiveer with this it’s no good giving customers the option , you have spent xxxxx on a hot system and still going to use ladders , totally mad and risking your safety into the bargain . Clean the windows with the pole but re cheak them before you leave and re do as nessasery , if you were close I would pop up and do it for you but unfortunately it’s a bit to far stick with it or customers will try and run your buisness for you .  

The people using a ladder in picture two is hotel is hotel staff re fixing the gutter after a storm not us by the way ????

 

[wee man]

If i carry on then i won't have any customers to use wfp on anyway. I have given them the choice and mostly all want me to go back to ladders or they cancel its as simple as that. I can still use it on the flats, pvc cleans, solar panels and garage doors. When one is trapped in a care home's canteen surrounded by a dozen old women demanding the return of the squeegee, its a bit intimidating to say the least, one has to cave in. ???

Mybe do that care home with the ladders till you can afford to lose it but keep doing houses with wfp. Spend the weekend doing your own windows over and over again till you get something that works.  

I really hope you keep going with it cause once you get it you won't go back. Good luck .

 

[Iron Giant]

I wish it was just first cleans. I am back using the ladders but i can put my prices up next year if i want to because i realised how much my customers need me. Good learning experience.

The thing is unless you've wfped the jobs before they are all classed as first cleans, just simply take on board the advice everyone has given and just slow things down as well, as perfection takes time ?

 

[Tango]

Hope you don't mind me chiming in but two things are jumping out at me @scottish cleaning service

I was going great until today when i went to clean the care home. Nearly every window had spotting and not sure how it happened. I was using an old flock brush which i use for pvc cleans with degreaser. Not sure what happened because they have wooden frames and sills. It kinda resembled salt on the glass. I have fitted a new brush and will see how i get on tomorrow.

You're using a brush contaminated with a chemical. You're then putting that brush over the window (presumably the wooden frame too - with paint / woodstain etc - possibly still reacting) and its getting onto the glass and then not cleaned or rinsed properly - look, you said it yourself:

I was racing round like a whirlwind

You need to use a brush with CLEAN bristles. It's no good using something dirty when trying to clean, all you're doing is moving dirt around but not actually removing it.

When I'm on the glass, every 2-3 windows my brush head comes down and gets a good flick through with my hand so that any **** gets flung out of it. Then i turn it round and do it again so the bristles shoot the other way (but still away from me - hence turning it around).

I also carry a plastic tub with me to empty half a barrel of pure into when needed - and i'll give the brush a good rinsing out in that (eg if i hit flaky paint). I'll repeat that 2-3 times if needed even if i am wasting the pure because it looks after the bristles - which are absolutely crucial in this line of work. If you don't and you're running round like a mad nutter snatching peoples money off them and not really worrying about your standards or equipment, then you're going to run into trouble - and you've admitted so saying this:

Only now i have realised there is more to it and checking before one leaves is a must, we live and learn and i learned a lot today.

Yes bringing the brush head down from a 2nd floor window to flick through it can be a minor inconvenience however so is losing customers and gaining a bad reputation. Yes window cleaning is a minimal investment_to_start business but you still need to look after your gear or it will let you down!

I'd say keep the flocked brush head to carry on doing your jobs that need degreaser but for anything else, use a nice new clean brush and NEVER mix the two.

Incidentally, if you've been spraying degreaser up the WFP tube that's potentially another source of contamination too - use separate hoses.for applying degreaser / rinsing off (might help to have pure being pumped out of the hose when inserting into the WFP too - so that nothing can get into the hose against the flow)

 

[scottish cleaning service]

I naturally thought first cleans were like traditional first cleans. Some of the vents had 30yrs of dust in them so you can understand the snails trails all down the glass. Didn't help when the communal grass got cut after i had gone and the gardener went mad with the blower. I'll stick to ladders at the moment until the heat has died down, got a nice set of light ladders to use. Trouble with most of my customers is parking, i need to run out 50m of hose to do the backs. Learned alot this week but it ended on a positive when i re-cleaned all the windows i had done with the wfp and kept everyone happy including myself.

 

[Pjj]

Hope you don't mind me chiming in but two things are jumping out at me @scottish cleaning service

You're using a brush contaminated with a chemical. You're then putting that brush over the window (presumably the wooden frame too - with paint / woodstain etc - possibly still reacting) and its getting onto the glass and then not cleaned or rinsed properly - look, you said it yourself:

You need to use a brush with CLEAN bristles. It's no good using something dirty when trying to clean, all you're doing is moving dirt around but not actually removing it.

When I'm on the glass, every 2-3 windows my brush head comes down and gets a good flick through with my hand so that any **** gets flung out of it. Then i turn it round and do it again so the bristles shoot the other way (but still away from me - hence turning it around).

I also carry a plastic tub with me to empty half a barrel of pure into when needed - and i'll give the brush a good rinsing out in that (eg if i hit flaky paint). I'll repeat that 2-3 times if needed even if i am wasting the pure because it looks after the bristles - which are absolutely crucial in this line of work. If you don't and you're running round like a mad nutter snatching peoples money off them and not really worrying about your standards or equipment, then you're going to run into trouble - and you've admitted so saying this:

Yes bringing the brush head down from a 2nd floor window to flick through it can be a minor inconvenience however so is losing customers and gaining a bad reputation. Yes window cleaning is a minimal investment_to_start business but you still need to look after your gear or it will let you down!

I'd say keep the flocked brush head to carry on doing your jobs that need degreaser but for anything else, use a nice new clean brush and NEVER mix the two.

Incidentally, if you've been spraying degreaser up the WFP tube that's potentially another source of contamination too - use separate hoses.for applying degreaser / rinsing off (might help to have pure being pumped out of the hose when inserting into the WFP too - so that nothing can get into the hose against the flow)

We use the same brushes for glass as plastic cleans and they are covered in Virosol we just rinse them off under a tap and never have a problem with contamination, also if the brush is dirty it’s not ideal but you finish the clean with the brush off the glass rinsing ,the dirt in the brush won’t affect the finished results , but it is in my opinion good practice to keep it as clean as is practically possible . The problems he is experiencing are a common situation most of us encountered when starting out , it’s down to technique and knowing when the window and vents are clean and that comes with experience, perseverance will sort this out and a good flow rate when rinsing will help a lot also avoiding splashing water everywhere  around the window as this will take dirt from the walls or lintels above the  window onto the glass 

 

[Davy G]

I use monofilament (non flocked) brushes with two 100 degree fan jets. After the normal agitation to loosen the dirt, I rinse the glass using this method : Twice across and back on the top of the glass to build a head of water. Then, with quick, full width side to side strokes, I bring down a continuous curtain of water. I use the same method regardless of what type of glass is fitted. I rinse on the glass but only just touching it with the tips of the bristles. My thinking is : By using fan jets the water is spread throughout the whole width of the brush. By using non flocked bristles only barely touching the glass, there is almost no uncontrolled overspray as the bristles contain it. And the lightly touching bristles with space between them allow the dirt to escape out the bottom of the brush.

Very rarely have a problem, these days. 

 

[dmw]

I was racing round like a whirlwind thinking this is great. Only now i have realised there is more to it and checking before one leaves is a must, we live and learn and i learned a lot today.

First things first, just slow down a bit. 2  1/2 years ago I changed 300 properties over from trad to wfp overnight, I didn't tell them, when they asked I obligingly showed how the magic worked and didn't give them an option of trad cleaning. I basically took longer and said they maybe a bit of spotting or a few runs ( bearing in mind they had 20 odd years of Fairy liquid rubbed into the seals) and there were a few issues which I rectified and by the end of the first month I'd lost 5 customers but gained extra income with doing the tricky over conservatory / hard to get windows etc. I also put the prices up at the same time as I always increase biannually in March. I also removed the ladders as a " marker" to show I'm no longer a tradder. 

I think the worst thing you can do is give the customer the option of either method because if you allow one to trad then you open up the option for them all to dictate. I would concede however it may have been easier for me being established and the customers " bought" into me.

None of us like to lose good well paid work but sometimes we have to bite our lip and walk away. And just think how much money you've invested in your equipment, I also had a Grippatank system fitted and it's the best investment I have made and has paid for itself many times over. So I would urge you to rethink ditch your ladders and get that system earning. 

Best of luck.

 

[scottish cleaning service]

Cheers, I will be using the wfp for my commercial jobs and if they don't like it then they can get someone else. I upset a lot of my customers by using an old contaminated brush so they are all totally blaming the pole. Hard to educate them after that. Only good thing is, i will never lose any customers to a wfp person. I only need to make a ton a day which can be less than 10 cleans per day. I'm not out to break the bank so i have become very pernickety on new customers. If i want to lose anyone i will tell them i have to use the pole on their house and they will cancel. Got a new good customer today £12 a month semi near my work but on a different estate. You only need one which i clean on a Saturday to begin with and the neighbours see what you are doing. Usually takes me an hour to do a first clean and i leave a ladder propped up on the van's back door. Passersby naturally think, there's a new window cleaner in My Area. 

 

[Tango]

If i want to lose anyone i will tell them i have to use the pole on their house and they will cancel. 

Mate don't go on relying on destroying Alex Gardiners business in order to save your own face, just don't go back to customers you don't want to keep - it's that simple. YOU are your own boss, if you don't want to go back, don't turn up - it happens all the time. I have a fair few clients who've said their old windy stopped turning up - most of them don't seem to bother keeping my phone number as the only time i hear from them to cancel is after the texts have gone out.

Unless you've signed a contract with them then don't worry about it. If they ring up asking why you've not been back just say you've got too much work on or you're going part time due to childcare / medical / whatever reasons and you can't continue to service their property. What are they going to do about it? - They don't have your address (beauty of window cleaning eh!) so they're hardly going to turn up at your house or send you legal documents.

Really is no point damaging the reputation of WFP because you were racing round drooling over all the cash you could vacuum up, you'll destroy it for the rest of us.

 

[Tango]

We use the same brushes for glass as plastic cleans and they are covered in Virosol we just rinse them off under a tap and never have a problem with contamination, also if the brush is dirty it’s not ideal but you finish the clean with the brush off the glass rinsing 

Yeah a bloody good rinse is key to everything I reckon. Like i said above I work hard to keep my bristles in good working order - it's the only brush head i have so i have to look after it or i'm snookered!

 

[scottish cleaning service]

Think that balls up was a blessing in disguise. Everyone seems to be wfp now and i am the only trad guy up here in my area. Going to change some of my wording on my van to 'Traditional Window Cleaning' to see how i get on. Today i was walking with my ladders and an old woman asked if i could clean hers each month. She pointed over to ground floor flat and i thought great until i seen the condition of them. Turned out it was a builders clean and took me 40mins but it will be maximum 6mins from now on. 

 

[steve garwood]

Think that balls up was a blessing in disguise. Everyone seems to be wfp now and i am the only trad guy up here in my area. Going to change some of my wording on my van to 'Traditional Window Cleaning' to see how i get on. Today i was walking with my ladders and an old woman asked if i could clean hers each month. She pointed over to ground floor flat and i thought great until i seen the condition of them. Turned out it was a builders clean and took me 40mins but it will be maximum 6mins from now on. 

So you’ve just spent many thousands at grippatank having twin reels and a hot system fitted, but you’re going to advertise your a trad cleaner ?

 

[Tango]

Does seem a bit odd lol but if it helps him gain new customers then i suppose why worry about it!

 

[scottish cleaning service]

So you’ve just spent many thousands at grippatank having twin reels and a hot system fitted, but you’re going to advertise your a trad cleaner ?

Exactly, will use the wfp for commercial, pvc, solar panels, garage doors and pvc door cleans. Not going to use it on domestic cleans anymore unless they want it. All my customers want trad so why fight against the current and picked up 2 new customers today. I see it like the old hand car washes that got phased out decades ago for the automatic roller car washes. Someone up here continued with the hand carwash and he was busy 7 days a week. Now every carwash is a hand job. Up here everyone is changing to wfp so i want to be different and continue trading. I have never heard a domestic customer refuse trad and demand wfp. I believe i am onto a winner but we will wait and see and i will update in a few months. All my customers got a free clean this month because i told them i was reverting back and again all were happy. The way i see it, when washing dishes one uses hot water and dish soap then scrubs and rinses. Wfp misses out the soap which i see is the downside to wfp and it leaves windows and sills wet. Will report back in the fullness of time.

 

[ks789]

Exactly, will use the wfp for commercial, pvc, solar panels, garage doors and pvc door cleans. Not going to use it on domestic cleans anymore unless they want it. All my customers want trad so why fight against the current and picked up 2 new customers today. I see it like the old hand car washes that got phased out decades ago for the automatic roller car washes. Someone up here continued with the hand carwash and he was busy 7 days a week. Now every carwash is a hand job. Up here everyone is changing to wfp so i want to be different and continue trading. I have never heard a domestic customer refuse trad and demand wfp. I believe i am onto a winner but we will wait and see and i will update in a few months. All my customers got a free clean this month because i told them i was reverting back and again all were happy. The way i see it, when washing dishes one uses hot water and dish soap then scrubs and rinses. Wfp misses out the soap which i see is the downside to wfp and it leaves windows and sills wet. Will report back in the fullness of time.

 Im not gonna knock your work as you seem like a craftsman who does a proper job. Round here though, though most are wfp, theres a few who do trad and sometimes ive seen their work and it looks like all smeary in the sun. Theres no way you'd get that trouble wfp. i do some jobs trad unfortunately, as certain old properties need it, but I cant see that modern homes with pvc windows would ever be better trad over wfp. Still, see how you get on mate.