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Guybrush

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Guybrush

Ive trawled the pressure washing forum for weeks now and I'm still unclear on how to offer this service.

 

If it's block paving I will offer to resand and maybe reseal - ok think that's right

 

If it's pavers will the pointing normally blow and do I offer a price to repoint separate? And reseal?

 

If you was starting out now would you forget the pressure washer and just do soft washing?

 

:confused:

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Cristian

Hi Guybrush, a power washer is always going to be needed in one way or another in exterior cleaning. Always re sand and seal or use Sika setting sand. You will be checking all pointing for signs of weakness during your quote. If there is suspect pointing and you are able to re do it your self put this in to your quote, if not you will have to advise the customer regarding this and then work this part out.

Edited by Guest

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Cristian

Oh, some customers won't pay for sealing so you have to advise them to the pit falls of not sealing or have a set price for re sand and seal and stick to that or just use the setting sand and add the cost into quote.

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Green Pro Clean Ltd

Pretty much as above.

 

Only variation for me is block paving. The price is for a clean, re sand and seal. I don't have a clean and sand only price.

 

Why? You may ask.........

 

If you dont seal it the sand will start to blow away, get rinsed away and in no time the drive will be back in a poor condition and reflect poorly on my workmanship.

 

Hence l feel (IMO for the record) the only way to do it right.

 

With the paving just a clean is an option. However an explanation of the benefits of sealing usually closes the deal and if the pointing needs attention this can be a nice little eaener on top

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Cristian

Mr Green how do you charge for re-pointing, and have you ever used Sika setting sand before?

Edited by Guest

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K in Kent
Mr Green how do you charge for re-pointing, and have you ever used Sika setting sand before?

Easiest way to re-point is using a sweep in product like this..... Wickes Patio Grout Buff | Wickes.co.uk

It's £25 and comes in grey or buff (beige/cream). It comes in 2 bags in container and once opened contents of a bad have to be used or chucked. VERY easy just to sweep in after cleaning while surface still damp and it sets in matter of hours.

Make sure u get the right colour because the apparent colour of paving before u start might not be what u end up with,i.e. what looks like grey may well actually be buff.

All DIY stores sell their own version - doesn't have to be Wickes but that's where I get mine.

I would suggest u pre warn customer that if joints are already breaking then pressure washing will definitely cause some loss BUT u can remedy this. However,be clear in your own mind and to the customer about what exactly u are offering. I obviously fill gaps but will also sweep over the whole area to try and ensure a consistent and uniform appearance. So areas will be full of the grout whereas other parts of joint will just have a very thin layer because that part is basically still full of original mortar - but it all looks the same so looks better.Don't go offering a full re-pointing,meaning joints have to be fully cleared etc because you'll end up having to chisel some of it out and be there all day.

As for price,go for whatever u think appropriate. Bear in mind to get a builder in to do that would be fairly pricey but equally it's such an quick and easy job even first time u do it.

Personally I work on basis of 50 quid a tub = 25 to cover cost, 25 to me which isn't excessive at all. But I'd expect to already be making 100 at least on the job and this time of year more than that really.

As long are joints are only partially empty one tub will do about 20-25sqm so only paying me 25 quid they are getting a result at that money but as long as I'm earning already out of it , which I will be, I really not too bothered - cos it is soooo quick and easy. £150-200+ for 2 or3 hrs on an average patio is alright by me. Get too greedy and u won't get the work.

 

RE sand Sika is good as is Dansand - they got 2 types,both weed resistant,but polymeric type is the harder setting and pricier . Also better for wider joints but they all do the job and easy to use - MUCH less earning potential though than offering sealing service using the right sealants.

Completely agree with Pro Green's comments.

 

One other option to consider is finishing with a biocidal treatment like Benz Biocide - depends what the customer wants but is perfect if they've got moss/algae/lichen problems and want to prevent re-growth. Benz isn't cheap at first glance but actually goes a long way,is easy to apply,does the job very well and maximises earning potential. Also shows customer u know what you're talking about and offering a solution in their best interests that is also cheaper for them - or can be.

But got to consider what do they want sealer to achieve and quality/type/condition of surface. I had one recently who spent 19 grand on beautiful limestone patio on split levels and thought nothing of paying 500 for Resiblock and wanted the darkening effect of their sandstone colour enhancer. On other hand if I've got someone with lichen problems on old concrete slabs I'd suggest biocide

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Cristian

Thanks again K in Kent for sharing your knowledge with the forum! Some excellent information you have shared there! I have looked at loads of re pointing videos on YouTube so I see what you mean about not wanting to get involved with digging out all the old pointing as its a very time consuming process. The Sika sand for driveways looks expensive as there's not many sellers of it up my way and it would have to be delivered by pallet.

 

The whole process in quoting properly for each job is down to what the substrate is like and if there is any issues, ie pointing problems etc then getting everything cleaned and finished properly. The more knowledge you have the better! I will be offering a biocide treatment as well as I know this stuff works and can protect against re growth for a long time. I have seen the Benz products, have you ever used the Soft Wash Pro 50 Biocide, it boasts the same results as the Benz product?

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Cristian

I have been looking at Resiblock sealants, what sealants are you using?

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Guybrush

Great posts guys I'm printing this thread out.

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Williams Jet Wash

Pressure washing and soft washing work well together done work where you need to get that muck off first then your left with stains that only softwash will touch to leave superior finish

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Williams Jet Wash

My rule of thumb now is if the mortar in patio slabs will lift with a touch then likely pressure wash will wash it away I pre warn customer and say these things go hand in hand clean patio = loose Mortar with regards to block paving cleaning I don't seal that often as price of sealant and my time customers rarely go for it I only use resiblock I just feel that if I offer a sealant of poor quality it reflects on me and will leave bad feeling with customer when it peels prematurely-

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Williams Jet Wash

I think aswell with sealing services general public don't know what I'm talking about when offering sealing they just don't get it when I explain

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K in Kent
Same. I have @K in Kent messages saved to a sheet marked pressure washing gold now lol

oh shut up Chris...meant in the nicest possible way of course;)

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K in Kent
Thanks again K in Kent for sharing your knowledge with the forum! Some excellent information you have shared there! I have looked at loads of re pointing videos on YouTube so I see what you mean about not wanting to get involved with digging out all the old pointing as its a very time consuming process. The Sika sand for driveways looks expensive as there's not many sellers of it up my way and it would have to be delivered by pallet.

 

The whole process in quoting properly for each job is down to what the substrate is like and if there is any issues, ie pointing problems etc then getting everything cleaned and finished properly. The more knowledge you have the better! I will be offering a biocide treatment as well as I know this stuff works and can protect against re growth for a long time. I have seen the Benz products, have you ever used the Soft Wash Pro 50 Biocide, it boasts the same results as the Benz product?

 

You're welcome mate. I'll try and attach pics of a commercial job I did last year at wedding venue and part of it was a patio/terrace where I had to chisel out what was left of mortar after clean, and then used Easy Joint which is same as the Wickes stuff basically. It was aggro believe me getting out all the mortar.That's what takes the time. But the whole venue needed cleaning and sealing and was one of the best paying jobs of the year so was worth the hassle but took best part of a day just clearing joints for area only about 60-70 ish sqm.

You can buy Sika (btw glad u spell it right cos I also call it Silka) on amazon if u want and can get Dansand from Wickes but wouldn't recommend going down that road cos u won't make any money out of it.

The only reason I mentioned it in a previous reply was cos I was making the point that a re-sand only service using normal KDS is a waste of time cos it will get washed away without being stabilised. So if not using sealer then stabilising sand is necessary. That's the only reason I mentioned it.

I don't recommend it.

Apologies to those who've read this all before in another post but....

To answer your question r.e. sealer I use this for block paving....RESIBLOCK Trade - Buy Trade All-Purpose Paving Sealer Direct Now. View RESIBLOCK Trade Product Details & Purchase Trade

Resiblock are expensive and I get 25% discount and all their other stuff is still expensive after that but u get what u pay for.

Much to be said about sealers and suitability for different surfaces,what they do,what they cost etc but that's another story....

 

But as KDS stabiliser this is the best value for money and effective sealer going - it's cheap , only needs one coat so use less and do it quicker and it works. Of course it works it's Resiblock. And sprayable which makes it even easier and faster to use. . 5 litres costs just over a score and covers at least 25sqm (in my opinion).

KDS bought 5 at a time in Wickes work out about £4 / 20kg bag. I expect to do at least 100 sqm with 3 bags.

Official application rates or coverage estimates are different but these are the real numbers.

 

So basically your costs per sqm - for BLOCK PAVING ONLY this is - are £1 per sqm.

 

Then work out a sq m price from that. I would suggest another £4 is reasonable anywhere in the country = £2 for clean , £2 for sand/seal.

So £5 sqm in total. Put it this way. Once u get the hang of it and get a lot faster at everything at that price u will get work and u will make money.

If think u can get away with charging more then go for it cos that is a very fair price. Some firms round my way want £8-£10 sqm - not sure how busy they are though...Trade can also be used on concrete and stone so is good all-rounder. At the end of the day u want something that u can make money on and Trade u can. If customers want wet look on their blocks or Indian sandstone colour enhancer etc they got to pay for it - and still charge £5/sqm on top of the product cost cos of time involved,2 coats,application by roller etc etc.

vast majority won't pay that sort of money though

I wouldn't entertain anything lower - ideally about £6sqm - upto 100 sqm.Then I'll drop it a bit,especially cash in hand and u can make serious money. Anything under 50 sqm I'd only do if I was gonna do it all same day - clean/sand/seal. And yes u can do it easily the same day as long as it's mild - April -Sept no problem then u can still clear £200-250/day

 

Biocide? - stick with Benz mate...I'm biased cos I know Ben a bit and like him and he's been very helpful to me with soft washing advice...but fact is his stuff works. As for the other brand I haven't tried it so can't comment and it may be very good - I just don't know. I do know Benz Biocide does the job and is well worth the money cos it goes a long way

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Cristian

Hi, your making complete sense K in Kent, your replies are always excellent your a fountain of knowledge mate! :thumbsup: I will be following your advise and will look forward to seeing that large commercial job you did. I will give the Benz Biocide a bash soon, as I can find lots of real World feedback on that stuff and I'm yet to find one person who's used that Pro 50 stuff. I like the Resiblock products, and yes you get what you pay for! I was talking to a Woman called Jennifer Bowling at Resiblock the other day regarding their training course, but unfortunately she informed me that they don't offer them anymore. She did mention I could become a Resiblock Registered Contractor once I proved my work etc. Your company name goes up on their website and that's when you get the discount I presume.

 

Are you a Registered Contractor K in Kent and if you are has their site got you much work in your area? I have also read that the Resiblock trade you can't seal previously sealed surfaces with it, how easy is it to tell if a surface has been previously sealed?

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Cristian

Oh I forgot to ask, I know you will need a sprayer with Viton seals. Can you recommend a good sprayer for Resiblock as there is so many sprayers to chose from its easy to purchase something not upto the job. :eek:

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K in Kent

sorry forgot about pics i was waffling so much....

I've had one job from being on there but it's not that I'm doing it for - it's primarily the discount cos 25% is a decent amount. It's also something worth a mention on your own site and an authoritative outbound link for SEO purposes by linking to your listing page on Resiblock from your site.

Not that it is anything like as good as them linking to u but even so every little helps with SEO and may add to your credibility from customers point of view.

RE sprayer - I won't recommend what I use now because it's not what I started with and personally I think u get what u can afford and upgrade as u go. You don't need to spend a fortune on kit and it's not a competition. Yes,u want to make the job easier and faster but spend and improve once the work starts paying for it would be my advice.

And as long as it does the job a sprayer is a sprayer. The seals are what matter and just get what u can afford or want to spend. If u want bigger cpacity or backpack etc then go for it but basic 8litres and viton seals will do just fine for now.

 

RE previously sealed surfaces - that applies with all sealers.

By rights any previously sealed surface needs to be stripped. But back in the real world....

I won't make any recommendations but I'll tell u what I do and u can make your own mind up.....reality is vast majority of drives,patios,block paving etc will have been sealed so long ago in effect there's nothing left so not an issue.

I've used it on surfaces previously sealed with Thompsons and Ronseal no problems. If it's old and acryllic/water based I've noy had problems ever.

And fact is if it has been sealed customer will have no idea with what brand or type.

HOWEVER,if polyurethane type - typically wet look types like Resiblock Superior be more careful and if done recently it needs to be stripped off unless using same product.

If not u can have situation where the new product is not absorbed cos of the old sealer doing its job and preventing absorption. Then u get bubbling on surface and u don't want that.

But be aware - stripping off the old stuff is easy to say. Doing it is another matter and u can't use paint stripper etc. It needs specialist products that are VERY expensive and time consuming to do - often need 2 coats,cover it,leave few hours,pressure wash off and repeat.

It's a nightmare. I've only done it once for customer and stripper alone cost hundreds.

Don't get involved with that malarkey. And this is just my opinion.I don't profess to be expert in any way and I'm no chemist so not qualified to know about the chemical reactions that can occur. If in doubt about how to do a job either research extensively or walk away.

 

here's pics...WP_20160403_11_07_55_Pro.jpg.02659b418bcc7e1f30738e3ad62018d2.jpg

5915cb5009941_commercial-venue-patio-after-cleaning-maidstone(5).jpg.ade1177dbef61bcc6b10f7ea22d04e57.jpg

WP_20160329_12_54_14_Pro.jpg.bf39e68d87e8059eca5e4646dd28c74d.jpg

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Brandon
sorry forgot about pics i was waffling so much....

I've had one job from being on there but it's not that I'm doing it for - it's primarily the discount cos 25% is a decent amount. It's also something worth a mention on your own site and an authoritative outbound link for SEO purposes by linking to your listing page on Resiblock from your site.

Not that it is anything like as good as them linking to u but even so every little helps with SEO and may add to your credibility from customers point of view.

RE sprayer - I won't recommend what I use now because it's not what I started with and personally I think u get what u can afford and upgrade as u go. You don't need to spend a fortune on kit and it's not a competition. Yes,u want to make the job easier and faster but spend and improve once the work starts paying for it would be my advice.

And as long as it does the job a sprayer is a sprayer. The seals are what matter and just get what u can afford or want to spend. If u want bigger cpacity or backpack etc then go for it but basic 8litres and viton seals will do just fine for now.

 

RE previously sealed surfaces - that applies with all sealers.

By rights any previously sealed surface needs to be stripped. But back in the real world....

I won't make any recommendations but I'll tell u what I do and u can make your own mind up.....reality is vast majority of drives,patios,block paving etc will have been sealed so long ago in effect there's nothing left so not an issue.

I've used it on surfaces previously sealed with Thompsons and Ronseal no problems. If it's old and acryllic/water based I've noy had problems ever.

And fact is if it has been sealed customer will have no idea with what brand or type.

HOWEVER,if polyurethane type - typically wet look types like Resiblock Superior be more careful and if done recently it needs to be stripped off unless using same product.

If not u can have situation where the new product is not absorbed cos of the old sealer doing its job and preventing absorption. Then u get bubbling on surface and u don't want that.

But be aware - stripping off the old stuff is easy to say. Doing it is another matter and u can't use paint stripper etc. It needs specialist products that are VERY expensive and time consuming to do - often need 2 coats,cover it,leave few hours,pressure wash off and repeat.

It's a nightmare. I've only done it once for customer and stripper alone cost hundreds.

Don't get involved with that malarkey. And this is just my opinion.I don't profess to be expert in any way and I'm no chemist so not qualified to know about the chemical reactions that can occur. If in doubt about how to do a job either research extensively or walk away.

 

here's pics...[ATTACH=full]14311[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]14311[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]14312[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=full]14314[/ATTACH]

 

Some really helpful info there mate [emoji1360]

Quick question....that end pic saying you filled the joints with Easy Joint.....where do you get it cheap and how do you charge for filling joints?

 

Cheers.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Cristian

Once again, Excellent info and thanks for the pictures! :thumbsup:

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K in Kent
Some really helpful info there mate [emoji1360]

Quick question....that end pic saying you filled the joints with Easy Joint.....where do you get it cheap and how do you charge for filling joints?

 

Cheers.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't get it cheap mate and just get it from Wickes usually-their own brand stuff- although that particular job I ordered it online. And that job was only a part of a big venue and included terraces and car park so only formed a bit of the overall job.If I'm perfectly honest I was a bit blase about it and as that patio was the smallest area I didn't look at it properly when I was there pricing it. I just measured it and the joints I looked at were well crumbly and thought 'yeah that'll blast out no bother'. . Famous last words cos some of it was like iron. Fortunately the size of the job more than compensated but I'm a bit more careful as a result.

For domestic patios I usually work on basis of £50 a tub = 25 to buy and 25 to me to apply. But that takes half hour max.

As I've said before I don't get too worried about that side of it cos it's so quick and easy to do when just a straightforward brush in job.

Tbh when I'm being fairly well paid anyway I'd be quite happy just to do it for them and have done for OAPs and not charged anything. But 50 quid a tub is basis I normally work on and covers costs and a drink for me for what I regard as a 5 minute job - not that it is literally.

But if the job wasn't an earner in its own right I would definitely charge more as a point of principle. The customer won't want to do it themselves and they imagine it to be much more difficult than it is so don't let customers take liberties with u.

I look at the job as a whole and for a standard 30-40sqm patio I'm walking away with 150-200 for half a day so I'm happy enough and so is the customer

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Brandon
I don't get it cheap mate and just get it from Wickes usually-their own brand stuff- although that particular job I ordered it online. And that job was only a part of a big venue and included terraces and car park so only formed a bit of the overall job.If I'm perfectly honest I was a bit blase about it and as that patio was the smallest area I didn't look at it properly when I was there pricing it. I just measured it and the joints I looked at were well crumbly and thought 'yeah that'll blast out no bother'. . Famous last words cos some of it was like iron. Fortunately the size of the job more than compensated but I'm a bit more careful as a result.

For domestic patios I usually work on basis of £50 a tub = 25 to buy and 25 to me to apply. But that takes half hour max.

As I've said before I don't get too worried about that side of it cos it's so quick and easy to do when just a straightforward brush in job.

Tbh when I'm being fairly well paid anyway I'd be quite happy just to do it for them and have done for OAPs and not charged anything. But 50 quid a tub is basis I normally work on and covers costs and a drink for me for what I regard as a 5 minute job - not that it is literally.

But if the job wasn't an earner in its own right I would definitely charge more as a point of principle. The customer won't want to do it themselves and they imagine it to be much more difficult than it is so don't let customers take liberties with u.

I look at the job as a whole and for a standard 30-40sqm patio I'm walking away with 150-200 for half a day so I'm happy enough and so is the customer

 

Okay mate thanks for the info.

 

One thing I can't seem to figure out is what the difference is between this "easy joint" stuff and a dry mix of cement that you can also sweep in and is much much cheaper.

I'm guessing the only difference is you don't have to mix it?

 

 

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Duncs

thats how this forum stands the time

what a interesting thread,well done guys

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K in Kent
Okay mate thanks for the info.

 

One thing I can't seem to figure out is what the difference is between this "easy joint" stuff and a dry mix of cement that you can also sweep in and is much much cheaper.

I'm guessing the only difference is you don't have to mix it?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Okay mate thanks for the info.

 

One thing I can't seem to figure out is what the difference is between this "easy joint" stuff and a dry mix of cement that you can also sweep in and is much much cheaper.

I'm guessing the only difference is you don't have to mix it?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Alright Brandon,

You're quite right u can do a dry mix but the reasons I don't are the convenience and primarily colour match.

Knocking up your own is going to give you an unattractive brown mortar like with bricklaying.That's fine with brick walls but doesn't look great with light sandstone.

Yes u can add dyes like Cementone but that as example costs about 7 quid,plus bag of cement + sand so we're looking at about £15 there - for the sake of a tenner I'd go for the quicker,easier option just for the convenience of it.

But even with a dye it's not easy to get the right colour and once it's in u can't take it out so getting it wrong is costly in time and money.

 

Whereas with a brush-in product I find the colour match is closer - particularly if only partially filling joints while still using existing mortar in places. A buff colour mortar combined with new brown dry mix would look awful.

If you're clearing out joints completely and can ensure a uniform colour it wouldn't be so bad but even so it's still an ugly colour so a dye would be advisable.

So the ready to use brush in just gives it a more professional and attractive look in my opinion. But it's just my opinion.

You're spot on about a dry mix and there's no reason u can't use it. I'm also talking about areas where 1 tub would be sufficient,maybe 2.

But for larger areas and if I was doing the whole jointing after clearing it then I'd think about knocking up a mix with Cementone added.

Small areas it's just too much hassle and doesn't look good.

 

Also bear in mind with dry mix surface has to be bone dry otherwise it will stick and stain the paving as u brush it in. So that means good weather and waiting about for slabs to dry. Ready to use brush-in can be done straight after cleaning so that's another thing in its favour.

 

So for small areas I think it's worth the extra few pounds for the ease of use,speed,convenience,colour match and finished look.

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