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Thoughts on frost prevention



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Green Pro Clean Ltd

I was talking with @AGlassAct a few days back and we were discussing water heaters for certain reasons.  

Now with the frosts already kicking in we be prepared.  

Neil said something of interest... movng water wont freeze..... I think it's more like will take way longer to freeze.  

 

Here's what i'm thinking.  My battery is a 130mah on a SCR all day so pretty much stays weĺl charged. 

 

When I fill my tank at the end of the day can I not simply put the end of the hose reel into the tank (to complete a loop) and leave the controller on a lower setting of around say 20 for the night? 

 

Thoughts and implications?  To our resident boffins @AGlassAct @spruce @Kleenwell

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paul alan

My 3kw immersion has been on for 8 hours the last 2 nights, its a cracking thing!

 

3 nights ago the frost set in and I had too put a heater in the van for an hour before work, the last two days my hose has been warm till the end of the day.

 

It basically turns my 650 ltr tank into a massive radiator in the back of the van, everything in there is toasty. It's the best solution for me because it gives me very effective frost protection overnight and then all day long too as the water stays warm till the end of the day keeping the hoses soft and supple.

 

It won't allow me to clean with hot water, but I suppose if you do have a boiler or similar you would use less fuel to bring the water heat up as its already part way there. I dont need hot anyway as 99% of windows just need a clean, the other 1% I keep a 100ml bottle of vision tfr in my pocket and put a squirt on the brush. Or superscrape.

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RWCleaning
16 minutes ago, paul alan said:

My 3kw immersion has been on for 8 hours the last 2 nights, its a cracking thing!

 

3 nights ago the frost set in and I had too put a heater in the van for an hour before work, the last two days my hose has been warm till the end of the day.

 

It basically turns my 650 ltr tank into a massive radiator in the back of the van, everything in there is toasty. It's the best solution for me because it gives me very effective frost protection overnight and then all day long too as the water stays warm till the end of the day keeping the hoses soft and supple.

 

It won't allow me to clean with hot water, but I suppose if you do have a boiler or similar you would use less fuel to bring the water heat up as its already part way there. I dont need hot anyway as 99% of windows just need a clean, the other 1% I keep a 100ml bottle of vision tfr in my pocket and put a squirt on the brush. Or superscrape.

Could you put a link up of the 3kw immersion heater you have please mate ?

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Nudel
32 minutes ago, Green Pro Clean Ltd said:

When I fill my tank at the end of the day can I not simply put the end of the hose reel into the tank (to complete a loop) and leave the controller on a lower setting of around say 20 for the night? 

Yes, you can.

 

If it's very cold it will freeze at one point, of course, but due to the water flow it'll not form a plug instantly, but slowly freeze from the outside of the hose towards the centre. Kind of like how a heart attack works with a clogged artery I guess. 

 

I'd put the hose reel end deep into the tank in case the top starts freezing it won't overfill.

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AGlassAct

RWCleaning - an immersion element is an immersion element, look on screwfix they have all types including titanium. I used to use an immersion heater to pre-heat my tank but had so many reliability issues I haven’t bothered again. If I was to re-visit the idea I would either have a custom one made or go for a 2kw element, I think the 3kw puts too much strain on domestic electrics/extension leads.
Green pro clean, the circulation route is something I’m looking at and will be pretty simple to achieve- I’d personally disconnect the brush head and have a connection back into the tank or just plug the hose reel connector (that connects to your tubeless setup) straight to back into the tank. It would be easy to rig up a thermostat so the pump would kick in if the temperature dropped below 5 degrees.
The day I had with my webasto yesterday it will be ripped out and driven over - hopefully today with be better!!!!


Sent using the Window Cleaning Forums mobile app

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paul alan

It came with my tank, I bought it second hand.

 

One thing, if you put a 3 kw immersion heater in you need to put a 16a supply to it. I rigged mine up straight from the consumer unit and got a 16amp timer and 16amp cable with a 16amp connector.

 

YOU NEED TO TO DO THIS, AND IF YOU CANT DO IT YOURSELF SAFELY AND PROPERLY GET A SPARK IN!

 

I have an electrical background if you don't get a spark to do it or risk burning down your house!

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spruce
42 minutes ago, Green Pro Clean Ltd said:

I was talking with @AGlassAct a few days back and we were discussing water heaters for certain reasons.  

Now with the frosts already kicking in we be prepared.  

Neil said something of interest... movng water wont freeze..... I think it's more like will take way longer to freeze.  

 

Here's what i'm thinking.  My battery is a 130mah on a SCR all day so pretty much stays weĺl charged. 

 

When I fill my tank at the end of the day can I not simply put the end of the hose reel into the tank (to complete a loop) and leave the controller on a lower setting of around say 20 for the night? 

 

Thoughts and implications?  To our resident boffins @AGlassAct @spruce @Kleenwell

I don't think anyone has definitively stated at what temperature moving water eventually freezes.

They say that when water in moving the water molecules bump and rub against each other and do create a little heat from friction. The more turbulent the water flow the higher its internal temperature. This could just mean that the water will still freeze at 0 degrees but because its moving its a little warmer than 0 degrees.

I wouldn't recommend this as a way to keep the van from freezing up tbh.

Edited by spruce

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paul alan
1 minute ago, spruce said:

I don't think anyone has definitively stated at what temperature moving water eventually freezes.

They say that when water in moving the water molecules bump and rub against each other and do create a little heat from friction. This could just mean that the water will still freeze at 0 degrees but because its moving its a little warmer than 0 degrees.

I wouldn't recommend this as a way to keep the van from freezing up tbh.

The diameter of the hose would be a factor, minibore would be the worst.

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spruce
Just now, paul alan said:

The diameter of the hose would be a factor, minibore would be the worst.

But water would move quicker through a smaller diamt hose so create more friction and more heat. 😂 Slower moving water would have more chance of freezing up.

 

Honestly, I don't know.

 

One of the local lads parks his van on the street. He switches his water off at the tank, undoes his inlet filter, switches the pumps on and pushes all the water out of this pipes after the pump. Hose reels get taken inside.

He has worked like that for years. Son in law did the same. There was only once in 4 winters that the water in the pipe from the tank to the pump froze. We spend a bit of time and wrapped it in a warm towel which cleared a water 'path'.

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kevinc250

theres a few ways to keep it all from freezing during the night rangeing from diesel heaters and immersion right down to just bringing everything in at night to keep warm,

I believe this winters not going to be too kind on us and I've been prepping for that but going back to green pro's question I don't think it would work-or if it did then there may be at some point where it may freeze the hose on the hose reel then you are kinda screwed.

tyre warmers have been used in the past but with hit and miss results,heat tracing also.

there is another way although not as yet proven to work but the maths pans out and theres no reason why it wouldn't work but it takes a while to explain and i'm off out to do some now but if theres enough intrest I can try and explain it

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