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trevor peacock

Why rinsing is not always necessary



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trevor peacock

anyone got a link to Darren's rinsing video, I'm intrigued!!

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Doddy111
anyone got a link to Darren's rinsing video, I'm intrigued!!


Same here [emoji1384]‍♂️


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Green Pro Clean Ltd
42 minutes ago, Doddy111 said:

 


Same here emoji1384.png♂️


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Think this may be the one they're talking about.  

 

 

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trevor peacock

I have to disagree with this, I've been using wfp's for about 15 years. I agree some windows don't get very dirty and the water runs off in sheets, these don't need much rinsing. But some get quite grotty in a month and the water beads, these need rinsing well especially in the summer. Anyone else got an opinion ( silly Question) !!

Sorry for highjacking the original conny subject!

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Green Pro Clean Ltd
30 minutes ago, trevor peacock said:

I have to disagree with this, I've been using wfp's for about 15 years. I agree some windows don't get very dirty and the water runs off in sheets, these don't need much rinsing. But some get quite grotty in a month and the water beads, these need rinsing well especially in the summer. Anyone else got an opinion ( silly Question) !!

Sorry for highjacking the original conny subject!

 

Disagree all you like @trevor peacock, that's your entitlement mate.  All I'm saying is it works on both hydrophobic and hydrophillic glass.  -- And now there will be a long line (as usual) of the 'well I tried it and......'  however once they actually try it, they will realize perhaps there is something to it.    As said in the video (poor sound quality so maybe it's hard to hear) this is for windows that are well maintained monthly.  Give it a whirl on your front window before heading out tomorrow and see how it is when you get home -- Only gonna take you 60 seconds to find out.  

 

I will agree that in rare (and for us I mean very rare) circumstance, it wont work as way more scrub may be needed but for example we have on house opposite massive allotments, every single month covered in insect poops and needs tons of scrubbing but that is one of the exceptions.  

 

I also apologize for the thread hijack gone off track here, will see if we cant split it.  

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marc674

Somehow think this is going to get a bit heated 🤣
After watching this a while back I was very doubtful. I tried it on one big window on my house and it came out ok. Have tried on some monthly jobs and results were a bit mixed. I really think its down to what the glass is like and and what the window is exposed to like main roads or been close to the sea.

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Green Pro Clean Ltd
6 minutes ago, marc674 said:

Somehow think this is going to get a bit heated 🤣
After watching this a while back I was very doubtful. I tried it on one big window on my house and it came out ok. Have tried on some monthly jobs and results were a bit mixed. I really think its down to what the glass is like and and what the window is exposed to like main roads or been close to the sea.

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No need for it to get heated, it is just a thread of opinion.   You are right though, I couldn't use such a quick technique even on maintenance cleans back in Jersey on the coast roads but here's one to consider...................

 

If it even works on just say 30% of your jobs..... how much time will you save?   That's got to be worth an investigation right?  

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marc674

I Agree it definitely saves me time on on the few houses I do this way. Just a shame they can't all be done without rinsing. Am aiming for more monthly work and if even half can be done this way that's great. Seem to find any custys who have had new windows fitted and are monthly I don't need to rinse at all

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Dave B
2 hours ago, trevor peacock said:

I have to disagree with this, I've been using wfp's for about 15 years. I agree some windows don't get very dirty and the water runs off in sheets, these don't need much rinsing. But some get quite grotty in a month and the water beads, these need rinsing well especially in the summer. Anyone else got an opinion ( silly Question) !!

Sorry for highjacking the original conny subject!

In my experience phobic glass (where it beads) is even easier and needs less of a rinse

As long as it is scrubbed with a decent flow it is clean and has less water staying on the glass to spot

I like hydrophobic glass 

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Suhrly

I would actually love to give this a go, but the honest truth is...I daren't 🤣

 

I mean, that is the dream isn't it...no rinsing. Just scrubbing and job done. I honestly want to try it. I do a big, brand new housing estate and all the glass is gloriously hydrophylic and I would love to try it. Maybe one of these days I'll be brave enough. I have a good mate in one of those house so I suppose I could try his windows first. If that goes ok then I'll have a lot more conifidence to try it. Would get my work done in half the time.

Edited by Suhrly

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Pjj

Oh dear I  expect I will upset some but hear goes : Darren s videos are very good especially for newbies wanting to learn . But looking at that window it is already spotless so I agree it doesn’t need rinsing , but neither did it need cleaning in the first place . On a 4 weekly clean I would stick my neck out and say 99% of the time it will need rinsing and it will depend on the contaminant how much rinsing is needed and that will  varie . If it’s an opaque window then no on a maintenance clean I wouldn’t rinse but on any other window you are opening yourself up to a lot of problems by not rinsing well , we are near the coast and every visit the windows are salty they need a thorough rinse or they will spot badly. In land on your typical estate house it’s just general dust and dirt again I have experimented over the years and found that rinsing is required all the time to get a perfect job , I have tried with my own house and there will be bits left behind on the glass unless you rinse . This isn’t criticising those that chose not to rinse but I do feel that this information is giving newbies a false hope of what they can achieve, then when they get problems they will wonder why 

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Minty

I generally always rinse. The speed that rinsing on can achieve can give the customer the impression we are not taking any care. Regardless of the fact it’s clean. 

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RWCleaning

Can cut the atmosphere with a knife on this thread 

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Marko067

Technically the only time we would not be rinsing is if we were scrubbing with a wet brush with no water flow. If we have flow whilst scrubbing we are rinsing, we are just doing it at the same time as scrubbing. Whether this is effective or not depends on how dirty the glass is to start with.

Some say wfp doesn’t require any skill compared to trad cleaning. I personally disagree. It requires a different skill set and that includes being able to tell how much rinsing is necessary to get a good finish on a given job.

Me? I use a high flow rate and on regular maintenance cleans I am scrubbing and rinsing at the same time most of the time. However, you have to keep a close eye on the glass when working like this and be ready to adjust your rinsing according to the job at hand. This skill only comes with experience.

 

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Green Pro Clean Ltd
2 hours ago, Suhrly said:

I do a big, brand new housing estate

 

See, i wouldn't risk it on a new build.  We do at least 6 new build estates (still under construction) and they are always caked. 

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Suhrly
34 minutes ago, Green Pro Clean Ltd said:

 

See, i wouldn't risk it on a new build.  We do at least 6 new build estates (still under construction) and they are always caked. 

 

It's OK mate, when I say brand new, I mean it's done, dusted and all finished with no more building work ongoing.

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paul alan

This has been a very hit and miss technique for me.

 

Whenever trying something new I always check my work afterwards.

 

Sometimes the only way for me to get a perfect outcome is to use 2mm pencil jets on a medium flow and rinse accurately.

 

I live in a rural coastal town so get the worst of both worlds, seagull mess, bug spots and spider webs all over. I do still achieve a great hourly rate but I know I could earn more if I was a bit more "care free"

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Nicky

ive been window cleaning over 35 years & wfp over 15 years,

on a well maintained monthly job i wouldn’t dream of doing it imo the frames and glass have to rinsed after scrubbing,each to there own

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Suhrly
2 hours ago, Nicky said:

ive been window cleaning over 35 years & wfp over 15 years,

on a well maintained monthly job i wouldn’t dream of doing it imo the frames and glass have to rinsed after scrubbing,each to there own

 

In all those years though mate, have you ever TRIED the 'not rinsing' thing..? Intrigued to know with someone of your 15 year WFP experience.

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P4dstar

I'm baffled by the thought of not rinsing. So many variables people have thrown in. I'm not gonna lie Darren I think this video makes your YouTube channel lose a lot of credibility. Perhaps i'm wrong, perhaps you're a pioneer. All I know is every bit of advice elsewhere tells me to rinse. Alex Gardiner's video on basic techniques comes to mind straight away, I remember watching a few from an Irish chap when I first started out. The guy who trained me even went through how the brush should leave the glass so as not to splash where you have just rinsed which can create spotting. People have thrown so many variables at you that show this doesn't work as a general rule but honestly the video makes it sound as though it is a rule for all customers that are cleaned monthly.

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Marko067
12 hours ago, P4dstar said:

I'm baffled by the thought of not rinsing. So many variables people have thrown in. I'm not gonna lie Darren I think this video makes your YouTube channel lose a lot of credibility. Perhaps i'm wrong, perhaps you're a pioneer. All I know is every bit of advice elsewhere tells me to rinse. Alex Gardiner's video on basic techniques comes to mind straight away, I remember watching a few from an Irish chap when I first started out. The guy who trained me even went through how the brush should leave the glass so as not to splash where you have just rinsed which can create spotting. People have thrown so many variables at you that show this doesn't work as a general rule but honestly the video makes it sound as though it is a rule for all customers that are cleaned monthly.

 

The reason for all the various methods posted here is that there are so many variables that we have to deal with when rinsing, sometimes even on the same job, and no one technique is the best one for every variable.

 

Alex’s Video of basic techniques is just that. They are basic techniques that every window cleaner using WFP should know. However, they are like a foundation to build on and we build on that by gaining experience on the job. Some of us may never use some methods because they won’t suit any of our work. Others may use primarily one method because all their work is very similar. However, many of us likely use a number of different rinsing techniques during our day. I know I do.

 

With regards the posted video, I think the problem with it is, not so much with what he is doing but with what he is saying. He’s saying that he’s not rinsing, but in fact IMHO he is. His water is flowing, and at a good rate and he is rinsing ‘on the glass’ as opposed to ‘off the glass,’ albeit very quickly. This method can and does work on certain types of window.

 

I use a similar method a lot of the time on my regular maintenance work with good results. You must have good flow though for it to work well and keep your eye on the job at hand otherwise there is potential for bad results.

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Dave Shaw

As long as you keep your brush clean, have a good flow rate and there’s next to nothin on them in the first place it’s certainly do-able.

The only problem is that you just never know how they will turn out. After many tests on my own and customers windows it’s just not reliable enough. Even the same window that turned out fine once may not be the same next time. I’ve been using wfp for around 15-20 years now and although you do gain a sixth sense which certainly helps you just never know what they will be like and rinsing takes away that uncertainty. I knew a lad that in summer on his fortnightlys when your basically just knocking the dust off used to just rinse and wouldn’t touch the window with the brush as he used to say that was better as your not risking contaminating the window with deposits off your brush. I tried this on my own windows and tbh it worked but I’ve never been confident enough to try it on custys windows.

 

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P4dstar
12 minutes ago, Dave Shaw said:

As long as you keep your brush clean, have a good flow rate and there’s next to nothin on them in the first place it’s certainly do-able.

The only problem is that you just never know how they will turn out. After many tests on my own and customers windows it’s just not reliable enough. Even the same window that turned out fine once may not be the same next time. I’ve been using wfp for around 15-20 years now and although you do gain a sixth sense which certainly helps you just never know what they will be like and rinsing takes away that uncertainty. I knew a lad that in summer on his fortnightlys when your basically just knocking the dust off used to just rinse and wouldn’t touch the window with the brush as he used to say that was better as your not risking contaminating the window with deposits off your brush. I tried this on my own windows and tbh it worked but I’ve never been confident enough to try it on custys windows.

 

I see you edited that Dave, looked like you were about to agree with Darren for the second time in a week. That would have been a new record 😂

33 minutes ago, Marko067 said:

 

The reason for all the various methods posted here is that there are so many variables that we have to deal with when rinsing, sometimes even on the same job, and no one technique is the best one for every variable.

 

Alex’s Video of basic techniques is just that. They are basic techniques that every window cleaner using WFP should know. However, they are like a foundation to build on and we build on that by gaining experience on the job. Some of us may never use some methods because they won’t suit any of our work. Others may use primarily one method because all their work is very similar. However, many of us likely use a number of different rinsing techniques during our day. I know I do.

 

With regards the posted video, I think the problem with it is, not so much with what he is doing but with what he is saying. He’s saying that he’s not rinsing, but in fact IMHO he is. His water is flowing, and at a good rate and he is rinsing ‘on the glass’ as opposed to ‘off the glass,’ albeit very quickly. This method can and does work on certain types of window.

 

I use a similar method a lot of the time on my regular maintenance work with good results. You must have good flow though for it to work well and keep your eye on the job at hand otherwise there is potential for bad results.

Agreed dude. I hope and to be honest I expect that my comment will be taken as it is meant, honest feedback. I mean no malice in it but there are new guys starting out who will not have @Dave Shaw type spidey senses and this could go drastically wrong for them with so many variables.

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Dave Shaw
Agreed dude. I hope and to be honest I expect that my comment will be taken as it is meant, honest feedback. I mean no malice in it but there are new guys starting out who will not have [mention=4847]Dave Shaw[/mention] type spidey senses and this could go drastically wrong for them with so many variables.

[emoji23][emoji23]Not quite, I just pressed send on accident before I finished my post. Had you thinking though didn’t I. [emoji23] Also didn’t realise that our differences were so transparent[emoji102]
Don’t get me wrong he’s probs a sound guy and most of the stuff he goes on about is good information. It’s just the way he puts it across with his my way or the highway mentality and it seems like he’s in his own green pro bubble with complete disregard to the fact that their are many successful window cleaners out there that do things very differently than his “right” way.


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spruce

As @Pjj says, if you are on the coast like we do then rinsing is very important. If you are in the center of the country like @Green Pro Clean Ltd is, then you could most probably get away with it in some well established housing estates when windows are cleaned regularily and you have fast flow with a mono bristle brush.

 

There is no way I would not rinse. We used to do a Sure Start over a weekend. That was great as we could try out what cleaners suggested on the forums and see the results after they dried. Washing with no rinse left salt water streaks on the windows we tried it on.

 

This washing and no rinse isn't a new idea. It was first started in my window cleaning days by a guy named Richard who owned Tekbuc. He was trying to market his DIY brushes in competition with Gardiners. His pros where; weight was important so the heavier the brush the better it worked. His brushes had X number more bristle count so had better scrubbing power than any other brush did and he also promoted the idea of a single pass no rinse technique.

I bought one of his Arial brushes. My CLX22 buckled under the weight of the brush and there was no way we could clean windows properly with one pass and no rinse even with a fast flow rate.

 

We find that after a clean we do get lots of grit and muck left behind on the glass that we have to rinse off. Sometimes we have to chase those bits down the glass with the jets of rinsing water. Fan jets are useless for that.

 

The no rinsing technique was bantered about for quite a time on the other forum. Someone asked what about all the bits left behind after you have scrubbed the glass. Just leave them was the reply. When they dry the wind will blow them away.

 

I know there are window cleaners who strive to only do the best job they need to do to keep their customer happy. Some customers seem to be happy with an 80% job. We had a cleaner in our area who didn't do even a 30% job. I'm sure half the time his water was pure tap water. All his windows dried full of spots. But he did some of his same customer for years. He has only now stopped cleaning windows. The argument promoted by one of these 80% cleaners was that if their customer was happy with 80% then that's fine by me. But as far as I'm concerned, even if my customer is happy with 80% I will do my utmost to give him/her the best clean I can. It will never be 100% as that's perfect, but it will be as close to 100% as I can reasonably achieve.

 

 

Edited by spruce

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