Future of the forum

[Gavin]

Hey all. Many of you who have been here from day one will know that i run the forum off my own back obviously with the invaluable help of @Dave B and @Iron Giant 

I started the forum from scratch in 2010, I think, as, at the time, I was cleaning as well, and the forums available just didn't do it for me. Fast forward, and many right and wrong decisions, and we are here. Most will have seen the email that we have reduced the google adverts on the site and promoted the member's subscription options.

The reality is the forum does not earn enough to pay for itself fully. I am then left in this constant battle of wanting to provide an excellent community for you all and new members but at the same time need to fund it. I really don't want to call it a day as the forum is helpful and an excellent friendly place for so many businesses. 

I am now at a point where some drastic decisions need to be made! Removing to over the top ads has left us short by a fair amount each month. My hope was the reduction of ads might encourage more activity as the forum was more usable and, as a result, more ad revenue and not need more ads, just more activity. Sadly that hasn't been the case.

I can chuck a load more google ads back on the forum that will fix the finance problem but then make the community not as enjoyable for some, or I look at alternatives that are few and far between! 

One possible option is changing the forum's software; this would at least make our licence fees a bit cheaper and save some money. Or maybe we do ad some more ads but not as many as before. 

I know members have mentioned a paid membership-only site before, but that model isn't ideal with the massive amount of free info on the net, who will sign up and pay when they could just go elsewhere for free. 

Anyway just putting this out there so you all know where we are. At this moment in time the forum is going nowhere but i do need to figure out where we go from here. 

 

[Pjj]

Hey all. Many of you who have been here from day one will know that i run the forum off my own back obviously with the invaluable help of @Dave B and @Iron Giant 

I started the forum from scratch in 2010, I think, as, at the time, I was cleaning as well, and the forums available just didn't do it for me. Fast forward, and many right and wrong decisions, and we are here. Most will have seen the email that we have reduced the google adverts on the site and promoted the member's subscription options.

The reality is the forum does not earn enough to pay for itself fully. I am then left in this constant battle of wanting to provide an excellent community for you all and new members but at the same time need to fund it. I really don't want to call it a day as the forum is helpful and an excellent friendly place for so many businesses. 

I am now at a point where some drastic decisions need to be made! Removing to over the top ads has left us short by a fair amount each month. My hope was the reduction of ads might encourage more activity as the forum was more usable and, as a result, more ad revenue and not need more ads, just more activity. Sadly that hasn't been the case.

I can chuck a load more google ads back on the forum that will fix the finance problem but then make the community not as enjoyable for some, or I look at alternatives that are few and far between! 

One possible option is changing the forum's software; this would at least make our licence fees a bit cheaper and save some money. Or maybe we do ad some more ads but not as many as before. 

I know members have mentioned a paid membership-only site before, but that model isn't ideal with the massive amount of free info on the net, who will sign up and pay when they could just go elsewhere for free. 

Anyway just putting this out there so you all know where we are. At this moment in time the forum is going nowhere but i do need to figure out where we go from here. 

Sorry to hear this Gav I am sure I can speak for  most that we all appreciate the hard work you do and this is by far the best forum out there . If it was a membership only what would the costs per head need to be ?? I am sure there are a lot of dormant members that don’t come on hear and don’t  contribute to anything so they wouldn’t be missed ( no offence meant ) it would be better to have less members but they all contribute financially and by posting as well . Some forums are free but some you do have to pay I think most would be happy to pay a reasonable membership fee . 

 

[ched999uk]

It's a tricky one as prospective members won't be able to read anything without paying and they won't know what they are paying for! 

I don't mind Google ads but I know some do. 

I assume you have tried reaching out to the well known suppliers to see if they would sponsor a section or pay a monthly/yearly fee to have ads?

Just looked and the software does look fairly expensive. It's always difficult to switch a forum to different software and try and maintain everything plus a steep learning curve but that might be a good long term option.

 

[Gavin]

Sorry to hear this Gav I am sure I can speak for  most that we all appreciate the hard work you do and this is by far the best forum out there . If it was a membership only what would the costs per head need to be ?? I am sure there are a lot of dormant members that don’t come on hear and don’t  contribute to anything so they wouldn’t be missed ( no offence meant ) it would be better to have less members but they all contribute financially and by posting as well . Some forums are free but some you do have to pay I think most would be happy to pay a reasonable membership fee . 

Thanks, the problem with paid sites is they often eventually burn out. Yes, we might get a reasonably ok uptake from current members, but as much as current members are the foundation of the forum, they don't stay forever. We also have to constantly attract new members, and thats where the paid membership model isn't great. It deters new users unless we can offer some substantial member benefits, which we can't do at the moment other than the forum to post in. 

Eventually, we would slowly see the decline of current members who, for whatever reason, leave due to no longer being in the business etc. No new members are joining because they don't want to pay to ask a question they could ask elsewhere for free and the forum would end up dead. 

 

[Gavin]

It's a tricky one as prospective members won't be able to read anything without paying and they won't know what they are paying for! 

I don't mind Google ads but I know some do. 

I assume you have tried reaching out to the well known suppliers to see if they would sponsor a section or pay a monthly/yearly fee to have ads?

Just looked and the software does look fairly expensive. It's always difficult to switch a forum to different software and try and maintain everything plus a steep learning curve but that might be a good long term option.

Yes have reached out to several suppliers over time. Some are keen others not so. The other software option would be one we used previously so for some it will be fairly easy to adjust and most functionality is the same these days between software with not to much change in how things work. Its a right pain in the ass to move such a big form to new software but is one of the options that will help a small amount. 

 

[Gavin]

So what do you think is the answer??

Not a clue right now. ?

 

[Part Timer]

So what do you think is the answer??

More regular users coughing up a quid a week

 

[Gavin]

More regular users coughing up a quid a week

Not everyone wants to thats the trouble. Ditching the amount of ads we had has left a £200 per month hole in my pocket! Members and guests who visit might enjoy the expericnece of using the forum more but it doesnt = paying the bills.

i would love to get rid of all Google ads as they do make things slower and clucky but i cant see an alternative that is viable for everyone at the moment. 

Yes, our forum is big and needs big hosting! Along with that is licences for the forum software plugins and addons, and then there's my time managing it. Sadly member subscriptions don't make up that gap, and no one really wants to pay just to help. They want benefits and things in return. Even the bits we do offer are not a considerable incentive really. 

 

[CMcB]

Hey all. Many of you who have been here from day one will know that i run the forum off my own back obviously with the invaluable help of @Dave B and @Iron Giant 

I started the forum from scratch in 2010, I think, as, at the time, I was cleaning as well, and the forums available just didn't do it for me. Fast forward, and many right and wrong decisions, and we are here. Most will have seen the email that we have reduced the google adverts on the site and promoted the member's subscription options.

The reality is the forum does not earn enough to pay for itself fully. I am then left in this constant battle of wanting to provide an excellent community for you all and new members but at the same time need to fund it. I really don't want to call it a day as the forum is helpful and an excellent friendly place for so many businesses. 

I am now at a point where some drastic decisions need to be made! Removing to over the top ads has left us short by a fair amount each month. My hope was the reduction of ads might encourage more activity as the forum was more usable and, as a result, more ad revenue and not need more ads, just more activity. Sadly that hasn't been the case.

I can chuck a load more google ads back on the forum that will fix the finance problem but then make the community not as enjoyable for some, or I look at alternatives that are few and far between! 

One possible option is changing the forum's software; this would at least make our licence fees a bit cheaper and save some money. Or maybe we do ad some more ads but not as many as before. 

I know members have mentioned a paid membership-only site before, but that model isn't ideal with the massive amount of free info on the net, who will sign up and pay when they could just go elsewhere for free. 

Anyway just putting this out there so you all know where we are. At this moment in time the forum is going nowhere but i do need to figure out where we go from here. 

Did you get less traffic with when you had more ads?

 

[Gavin]

Did you get less traffic with when you had more ads? Or was it just more complaints from members? 

Both decline in traffic and activity and members complaining. 

 

[Robt100]

I'd say put some Ads back. Change software, and create and 'archive' backup of the current forum that is read only. Saves the long task of transferring everything. Maybe create a dedicated sticky thread for newcomers on the questions that get asked 1,000,000 times.

I've had exactly the same message to read on another forum I frequent only 3 weeks ago, seems everyone is feeling the pinch!

 

[Gavin]

I'd say put some Ads back. Change software, and create and 'archive' backup of the current forum that is read only. Saves the long task of transferring everything. Maybe create a dedicated sticky thread for newcomers on the questions that get asked 1,000,000 times.

I've had exactly the same message to read on another forum I frequent only 3 weeks ago, seems everyone is feeling the pinch!

Sadly so and most forums like ours are self funded pretty much so trying to make sure you earn enough to keep the wheels turning is more important now than it was previously. I am thinking somthing along those lines but also maybe offering an option at registeration for people to choose a fre membership ad supported or a paid one removal of google ads. Yes we definitely need to figure something our for those regularly asked questions.

 

[Part Timer]

Not everyone wants to thats the trouble. Ditching the amount of ads we had has left a £200 per month hole in my pocket! Members and guests who visit might enjoy the expericnece of using the forum more but it doesnt = paying the bills.

i would love to get rid of all Google ads as they do make things slower and clucky but i cant see an alternative that is viable for everyone at the moment. 

Yes, our forum is big and needs big hosting! Along with that is licences for the forum software plugins and addons, and then there's my time managing it. Sadly member subscriptions don't make up that gap, and no one really wants to pay just to help. They want benefits and things in return. Even the bits we do offer are not a considerable incentive really. 

I prefer straight talking and facts to be honest and what this looks like to me is the current options are,

Close if no more money comes in,

More members subscribe to make up the shortfall,

Restart Google Ads and get complaints,

Change software to save money and have some Google Ads,

Can you not have a system like the newspapers where you only get so much access free and after that if you're not subscribed you don't get anymore access till the following week? Or have a section where only subscribed members have access.

 

[Ian Sheppard]

Hi Gavin

Operating a Forum such as this one is not cheap and no doubt sucks up a fair amount of time. Time has a cost in a number of ways. Personally I have no issue with Google ads as they are a revenue stream to help maintain the site.

I agree with you that taking a forum that is free to access to a subscription model may only be a short term solution as there is so much free advise out there. This lead s back to the google ads being run. We all access Tik - tok You tube and may other sites freely knowing that there will be advertising shown and know that is how the sites are funded.

 

[HWCS]

I have no idea how many WCF Heros & Gaurdians there are but ive just upgraded from Hero to Gaurdian and £4/6pcm seems cheap to me, id happily stomach a few quid increase.

The adds dont bother me in the slightest cant say ive ever noticed any, it would be a travasty if this forum had to close imho ive learned so much from here.

Im not gonna make any ground breaking suggestions because i have ZERO knowledge of how much something like this costs to run, but id say maybe a free 1 month subscription so people can see just how invaluable the forum is and once the free month is over you have to go Hero/Gaurdian.

 

[JohnDoeWindows]

I'll subscribe now! This forum is incredibly valuable. 

 

[Robt100]

As a question, is it just having the Ads that gains revenue, or is it more income if we actually click the Ads?

 

[ched999uk]

As a question, is it just having the Ads that gains revenue, or is it more income if we actually click the Ads?

Some ads are paid per 1000 views others only when clicked BUT Gav MUST NOT ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO CLICK ADS as it's against Google's T&C. Google are very clever and have lots of data so please don't just click ads to help Gav as it could backfire big time!!!

If an ad interests you then click it and read a page or 2 from the site by all means.

 

[Pjj]

So @Gavin Ime a total techno dinosaur and haven’t got a clue about any of this to be honest but  how do other forums pay their way ??  Would google adds on hear solve the problems ? For those that pay a membership they don’t see the adds anyway do they ? So if ones don’t want to see them then they can avoid them by subscribing. Can more trade suppliers to the window cleaning industry be encouraged to advertise on hear as this surely would help their businesses with more sales several are members on hear already .  

 

[Skxawng]

I have no idea how many WCF Heros & Gaurdians there are but ive just upgraded from Hero to Gaurdian and £4/6pcm seems cheap to me, id happily stomach a few quid increase.

The adds dont bother me in the slightest cant say ive ever noticed any, it would be a travasty if this forum had to close imho ive learned so much from here.

Im not gonna make any ground breaking suggestions because i have ZERO knowledge of how much something like this costs to run, but id say maybe a free 1 month subscription so people can see just how invaluable the forum is and once the free month is over you have to go Hero/Gaurdian.

Same here, just upgraded my subscription. Everyone who has found value in here and now earns more as a result could probably afford the equivalent of buying Gav a coffee a month. 

I think the ads are fine and appreciate the time, effort, expertise and expense gone into this forum. Just go to CIU, the difference in quality is surprising. 

 

[RWCleaning]

As a question, is it just having the Ads that gains revenue, or is it more income if we actually click the Ads?

DO NOT CLICK ON ADS! I am not allowed to be shown to manipulate the ads at all or our ad account we be banned with no way of getting it back. 

Some ads are paid per 1000 views others only when clicked BUT Gav MUST NOT ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO CLICK ADS as it's against Google's T&C. Google are very clever and have lots of data so please don't just click ads to help Gav as it could backfire big time!!!

If an ad interests you then click it and read a page or 2 from the site by all means.

Yep as above not a good idea at all! I could end up losing all revenue from ads. 

So @Gavin Ime a total techno dinosaur and haven’t got a clue about any of this to be honest but  how do other forums pay their way ??  Would google adds on hear solve the problems ? For those that pay a membership they don’t see the adds anyway do they ? So if ones don’t want to see them then they can avoid them by subscribing. Can more trade suppliers to the window cleaning industry be encouraged to advertise on hear as this surely would help their businesses with more sales several are members on hear already .  

Ads are the main form of income on forums like ours the suscribing members are not that many bt hopefuly with a few changes they might be. 

I have now made the members area for paid members only as well as clasifieds, new users registering now get asked to choose a membership including a free ad supported option. I will make a couple of other adjustements here and there and see what happens.