Wfp system advice

[Yogi1872]

New here and first post.  Changing over from traditional to wfp. I have a mercedes citan and it's 700 kg payload so I won't be able to get one of the bigger litre tanks.  I was going to go for the facelift compact either 325 litre or 425 . I bought one of there carbon fibre poles already.  I haven't a clue about these things and the machine looks very easy to work.  That reason is the only thing that's swayed me towards it.

I'm in a soft water area. I notice some systems are cheaper than others. What justifies ones being priced higher than others ?. Do they do something the compact doesn't ?.  I'm based in Scotland and called Douglas at aqua but he's not fitting systems anymore only selling them, so any recommendations for him is out the window.   Again I haven't a clue how to fit anything and I'm not attempting it so that's out of the question.  Are there any other systems like the compact where from what I understand its looks like its just water in with the di option then your sorted ?.   Was waiting until the 1st of January to order it on the off chance I'd maybe save a few quid if they decide to have a sale.

 

[ched999uk]

Welcome.

If you haven't already get a decent TDS meter - Doug has genuine ones. Then if it's below about 70tds then you can just DI to create your pure.

As for systems, I would say not much to choose between them unless you are looking at crash tested ones. They all just hold water in a baffled tank that has a frame that is securely bolted to the chassis and or spreader plates.

Then the 'standard' 100psi 5l/min pump and a rebadged spring V16 controller. Then 100m 6mm hose on a reel and away you go. Maybe with a univalve to shut off the water at the pole end of things.

 

[Yogi1872]

Welcome.

If you haven't already get a decent TDS meter - Doug has genuine ones. Then if it's below about 70tds then you can just DI to create your pure.

As for systems, I would say not much to choose between them unless you are looking at crash tested ones. They all just hold water in a baffled tank that has a frame that is securely bolted to the chassis and or spreader plates.

Then the 'standard' 100psi 5l/min pump and a rebadged spring V16 controller. Then 100m 6mm hose on a reel and away you go. Maybe with a univalve to shut off the water at the pole end of things.

I have a tds meter it says it's 30.  I did buy one of they univalve things when I bought the pole last week.  The compact looks like the one that seems most straightforward to use.  Was in 2 minds going for the power reel as £500 seems alot for the sake of just doing it manual, after reading on here though it obviously is a hassle doing it manually aa most either have it or say they regret not getting it. 

 

[spruce]

I have a tds meter it says it's 30.  I did buy one of they univalve things when I bought the pole last week.  The compact looks like the one that seems most straightforward to use.  Was in 2 minds going for the power reel as £500 seems alot for the sake of just doing it manual, after reading on here though it obviously is a hassle doing it manually aa most either have it or say they regret not getting it. 

Imo forget the electric hose reel for the minute. You can always get one later and add it to your system. Prices quoted are usually without vat.

When you look at tanks you need to consider the tank's footprint. Will it leave you enough room in your van to add other stuff? Over the years I have found that floor space is always at a premium.

I didn't know Doug at Daqua wasnt fitting tanks any longer. Sorry. I know he hasn't been well since he went down with covid.

As you admit you don't have the skills to fit a tank and frame yourself, you will have to get it fitted by someone who knows what they are doing. You could also consider a Purefreedom system as they fit their systems as well. They are in Grimsby.

Wfp suppliers don't usually have new year sales. ?

Systems are all basically the same. A tank, a pump, a battery, a hose reel and a pole. Prices are different if you need a simple delivery system or need an r/o as an additional add on.

 

[ched999uk]

I have a tds meter it says it's 30.  I did buy one of they univalve things when I bought the pole last week.  The compact looks like the one that seems most straightforward to use.  Was in 2 minds going for the power reel as £500 seems alot for the sake of just doing it manual, after reading on here though it obviously is a hassle doing it manually aa most either have it or say they regret not getting it. 

Any system that is just a DI system is very simple. Basically to fill up you connect a garden hose, water flows through the DI vessel (with resin in) and it goes into the tank at 0tds. There needs to be a ball valve (like in a loo cistern) to stop the tank over filling. The you have a shurflo 100psi 5lpm pump to get the water from tank (via strainer, fine mesh filter in case any rubbish in tank) to a hose reel. The pump is controlled by a 'controller' (best is V16 Spring controller but they are sold by lots of companies, just look for V16). The controller controls the speed of water coming out of your jets, it also detects when the univalve is closed and stops the pump, then restarts the pump when univalve opened. You also need a 12v leisure battery to run the pump and either recharge at home if you can get a mains cable to the van, or use a Battery 2 Battery charger if you do a good few miles each day to recharge it.

Electric reels are very good at reducing the strain of reeling in and £500 is a chunk of money but it is something you could add later.

 

[Yogi1872]

I have the money to get the electic wheel etc the now. Ive quite a good run that brings in £5500 every 4 weeks. So I'm not just starting out trying to build a run up etc. Not sure il have that once I switch over though. I'd like to think I'm at a stage now where even if I were to loose a bit from changing over that I'd  still be left with more than enough.

 

[ched999uk]

I have the money to get the electic wheel etc the now. Ive quite a good run that brings in £5500 every 4 weeks. So I'm not just starting out trying to build a run up etc. Not sure il have that once I switch over though. I'd like to think I'm at a stage now where even if I were to loose a bit from changing over that I'd  still be left with more than enough.

If you have a decent income then I would get all the bells and whistles to make your life as easy as possible, so get an electric reel. Depending on where you work it might be worth getting 'under floor rollers' these allow the hose to pass through the floor to the outside and allows you to lock all the doors!

As for switching, practice lots on your own windows. Make sure you are confident that you can clean the windows, don't worry about speed, you will be slower! Then start switching customers slowly over. Maybe explain that you want to work safer from the ground and if they have any problems let you know.

 

[Iron Giant]

New here and first post.  Changing over from traditional to wfp. I have a mercedes citan and it's 700 kg payload so I won't be able to get one of the bigger litre tanks.  I was going to go for the facelift compact either 325 litre or 425 . I bought one of there carbon fibre poles already.  I haven't a clue about these things and the machine looks very easy to work.  That reason is the only thing that's swayed me towards it.

I'm in a soft water area. I notice some systems are cheaper than others. What justifies ones being priced higher than others ?. Do they do something the compact doesn't ?.  I'm based in Scotland and called Douglas at aqua but he's not fitting systems anymore only selling them, so any recommendations for him is out the window.   Again I haven't a clue how to fit anything and I'm not attempting it so that's out of the question.  Are there any other systems like the compact where from what I understand its looks like its just water in with the di option then your sorted ?.   Was waiting until the 1st of January to order it on the off chance I'd maybe save a few quid if they decide to have a sale.

if you can find an engineering company near you who would know how to fit a system then that would be ideal for you, but be warned WCW send out screws to screw the tank to ply lining when they should be providing high tensile bolts and spreader plates,

Depending on where you are in Scotland there is a company in Newcastle Upon Tyne that @Part Timer has used and they fit wfp systems as an add on I can't remember what they are called 

 

[Jonny 67]

I have the money to get the electic wheel etc the now. Ive quite a good run that brings in £5500 every 4 weeks. So I'm not just starting out trying to build a run up etc. Not sure il have that once I switch over though. I'd like to think I'm at a stage now where even if I were to loose a bit from changing over that I'd  still be left with more than enough.

Learn how to do them correctly, and you won't lose many. Tell them with confidence that they are getting twice as much for their money(frames cleaned). Your resin costs on 30ppm will be minimal. Double di, and you'll probably only need 3 bags of good quality resin a year....

 

[Part Timer]

if you can find an engineering company near you who would know how to fit a system then that would be ideal for you, but be warned WCW send out screws to screw the tank to ply lining when they should be providing high tensile bolts and spreader plates,

Depending on where you are in Scotland there is a company in Newcastle Upon Tyne that @Part Timer has used and they fit wfp systems as an add on I can't remember what they are called 

KTD NE Ltd in Dunston, just off the A1

https://ktdne.com/

 

[Yogi1872]

If you have a decent income then I would get all the bells and whistles to make your life as easy as possible, so get an electric reel. Depending on where you work it might be worth getting 'under floor rollers' these allow the hose to pass through the floor to the outside and allows you to lock all the doors!

As for switching, practice lots on your own windows. Make sure you are confident that you can clean the windows, don't worry about speed, you will be slower! Then start switching customers slowly over. Maybe explain that you want to work safer from the ground and if they have any problems let you know.

I've said to a few already. The way I'm wording it is with the ladders coming with stabilisers there no good.  Some people have cut the bars but that voids the insursnce. I've said if they prefer it by ladder il happily still do it but let them know in that scenario a ladder falls on the car etc means I'm not liable. After mentioning that side of it to them they don't want that to be the case.

 

[JEM]

I've said to a few already. The way I'm wording it is with the ladders coming with stabilisers there no good.  Some people have cut the bars but that voids the insursnce. I've said if they prefer it by ladder il happily still do it but let them know in that scenario a ladder falls on the car etc means I'm not liable. After mentioning that side of it to them they don't want that to be the case.

Personally i wouldn't give them the choice as they will probably still want you to do them trad if you give them the option, just say it's safer for you and reduces the risk of serious injury I can't imagine anyone would argue with that

 

[CMcB]

I've said to a few already. The way I'm wording it is with the ladders coming with stabilisers there no good.  Some people have cut the bars but that voids the insursnce. I've said if they prefer it by ladder il happily still do it but let them know in that scenario a ladder falls on the car etc means I'm not liable. After mentioning that side of it to them they don't want that to be the case.

I swapped over from trad to wfp, I didn't give anyone the choice and I think I lost 2 or 3 customers. However, for the apprehensive ones I offered to come back at the end of the day to check that they were happy with the job. Customers were paying me to clean the windows, they were nervous that I was just spraying tap water and leaving, without cleaning, when they saw the service was the same they had no problems. As @Jonny 67 said, i agree with, go in with confidence 

 

[Yogi1872]

Personally i wouldn't give them the choice as they will probably still want you to do them trad if you give them the option, just say it's safer for you and reduces the risk of serious injury I can't imagine anyone would argue with that

I've noticed when I mention that any damage done to cars etc by using a ladder will result in them paying and not me they have agreed its not  worth taking the chance.  All the window cleaners I've seen with the new ladders all have chopped most of the saftey bar off.  If any damage is done then surely insurance would be void. I'm not willing to chance it, that's the reason I'm moving.  I've done my run for 10 years now so a relationship of some sort has been built up with most of them, I think that be a massive help moving it over aswell.  As ridiculous as this sounds it takes alot for a regular to cancel you.aslong as your polite and regular and do a half decent job then if there is marks left the odd time by mistake they don't even mention it.  I've no doubt there will be a few marks here or there that they notice but since it's been that long I've done them and be polite etc a fuss isn't made if it.

 

[Iron Giant]

I'd ask WCW to confirm the actual capacity of the tank, if you look at the reviews one lad is saying you can't drain the tank so usability is around 290 litres on a 325 tank, also I recall someone on here a while back who had to go to a filling station to fill up with pure and he said the tank took less to fill than it should have from empty 

@Den is your man who has had the compact systems for a few years so will be able to give you some insight on the fitting of the tank and his opinion on these systems 

 

[Den]

If you have a full round I would upgrade your van for a larger payload.

I have had compact 325l for last 5 years been spot on never missed a beat, I would get the power reel defo recommend them. I believe they have changed the manual from the proloc.

The Tec screws they sent aren’t fit for purpose, a friend of mine fitted the tank for me he installed high tensile bolts and made some spreader plates for underneath floor pan much safer.

honestly very happy with mine space saving with the reel on top, everything enclosed pump battery and controller and completely out the way from damage.

Even had an immersion heater installed in mine where the DI vessel would normally sit. 
 

but like I say in the very beginning if you have a full round 700kg isn’t massive. 
 

 

[Yogi1872]

If you have a full round I would upgrade your van for a larger payload.

I have had compact 325l for last 5 years been spot on never missed a beat, I would get the power reel defo recommend them. I believe they have changed the manual from the proloc.

The Tec screws they sent aren’t fit for purpose, a friend of mine fitted the tank for me he installed high tensile bolts and made some spreader plates for underneath floor pan much safer.

honestly very happy with mine space saving with the reel on top, everything enclosed pump battery and controller and completely out the way from damage.

Even had an immersion heater installed in mine where the DI vessel would normally sit. 
 

but like I say in the very beginning if you have a full round 700kg isn’t massive. 
 

I have been thinking about van size tbh.  I've only decided to change over the other week, thing putting me of is my vans only a few year old and millage isn't hight either. Plan was if its working out how it's meant to with everything running as normal il start putting money away for a van. If moving to a larger van I'd go for the transit. Probably a 1 year old model or at very most 2.  Wouldn't want to go finance option if possible, so if I'm managing not to bad with this then I'd rather plod away with it and save for the next year or year and a bit if need be so the finance option isn't needed.  I have £5500 k worth of work but someone's with me each week, we work 25 to 30 hours per week. So wages come out that, fuel, insurance. About 90% is bank transfer now so tax gets paid.  Although I do okay I wouldn't want the burden of having to pay a big installment each month if I can avoid it.

I'm introducing the system for the top windows first on the basis of reading that it could take a few cleans to get it up to scratch. Bottoms will be done with the other guy by hand. After the initial cleans I'm hoping the customer can then refer to the top windows and compare them to the bottom and see for themselfs there's no difference which way its done as the end result is the same  if it works like that I was going to get a trolley system and fill it when we get there.  This could go the other way here too and I could end up loosing that much where I haven't got enough to give someone work if houses start canceling, that could mean my small van might end up being all I need in the end.  Worst case scenario here I'm hoping is maybe I will loose £1000 to £1500 worth of work. Loosing that still means I keep enough to earn a decent enough wage though. I'm kind of looking forward to it but at the same time still a bit wary. I've spent alot of money over time getting the work and I've never had a new customer ask me they want it done with a wfp, I've had a good few ask me to confirm it is done with a squeegee though as they don't want the wfp.  

 

[spruce]

I have been thinking about van size tbh.  I've only decided to change over the other week, thing putting me of is my vans only a few year old and millage isn't hight either. Plan was if its working out how it's meant to with everything running as normal il start putting money away for a van. If moving to a larger van I'd go for the transit. Probably a 1 year old model or at very most 2.  Wouldn't want to go finance option if possible, so if I'm managing not to bad with this then I'd rather plod away with it and save for the next year or year and a bit if need be so the finance option isn't needed.  I have £5500 k worth of work but someone's with me each week, we work 25 to 30 hours per week. So wages come out that, fuel, insurance. About 90% is bank transfer now so tax gets paid.  Although I do okay I wouldn't want the burden of having to pay a big installment each month if I can avoid it.

I'm introducing the system for the top windows first on the basis of reading that it could take a few cleans to get it up to scratch. Bottoms will be done with the other guy by hand. After the initial cleans I'm hoping the customer can then refer to the top windows and compare them to the bottom and see for themselfs there's no difference which way its done as the end result is the same  if it works like that I was going to get a trolley system and fill it when we get there.  This could go the other way here too and I could end up loosing that much where I haven't got enough to give someone work if houses start canceling, that could mean my small van might end up being all I need in the end.  Worst case scenario here I'm hoping is maybe I will loose £1000 to £1500 worth of work. Loosing that still means I keep enough to earn a decent enough wage though. I'm kind of looking forward to it but at the same time still a bit wary. I've spent alot of money over time getting the work and I've never had a new customer ask me they want it done with a wfp, I've had a good few ask me to confirm it is done with a squeegee though as they don't want the wfp.  

There are some window cleaners in Scotland, who, with the homeowner's permission, use the customer's tap to refill their tank. Water meters aren't the norm in Scotland.

This might be away of getting away with a smaller tank.

When we went wfp my plan was to also do top windows wfp and the bottoms trad. Within 1/2 an hour I realized that cleaning the bottom windows traditionally just didn't make sense. I'm short so still had to use steps to reach the top of some downstairs windows.

 

[Iron Giant]

I have been thinking about van size tbh.  I've only decided to change over the other week, thing putting me of is my vans only a few year old and millage isn't hight either. Plan was if its working out how it's meant to with everything running as normal il start putting money away for a van. If moving to a larger van I'd go for the transit. Probably a 1 year old model or at very most 2.  Wouldn't want to go finance option if possible, so if I'm managing not to bad with this then I'd rather plod away with it and save for the next year or year and a bit if need be so the finance option isn't needed.  I have £5500 k worth of work but someone's with me each week, we work 25 to 30 hours per week. So wages come out that, fuel, insurance. About 90% is bank transfer now so tax gets paid.  Although I do okay I wouldn't want the burden of having to pay a big installment each month if I can avoid it.

I'm introducing the system for the top windows first on the basis of reading that it could take a few cleans to get it up to scratch. Bottoms will be done with the other guy by hand. After the initial cleans I'm hoping the customer can then refer to the top windows and compare them to the bottom and see for themselfs there's no difference which way its done as the end result is the same  if it works like that I was going to get a trolley system and fill it when we get there.  This could go the other way here too and I could end up loosing that much where I haven't got enough to give someone work if houses start canceling, that could mean my small van might end up being all I need in the end.  Worst case scenario here I'm hoping is maybe I will loose £1000 to £1500 worth of work. Loosing that still means I keep enough to earn a decent enough wage though. I'm kind of looking forward to it but at the same time still a bit wary. I've spent alot of money over time getting the work and I've never had a new customer ask me they want it done with a wfp, I've had a good few ask me to confirm it is done with a squeegee though as they don't want the wfp.  

In all honesty you are just going to have to bite the bullet and take a hit in the early days by doing all windows wfp plus the extra time it takes to do first cleans which can be X 2-3longer than a regular wfp clean now you could do this in blocks this could be done by going out on your own wfping as many houses as you can in a day then dropping onto the ladder later on or as @spruce said top up at customers houses as you will have an onboard Di Vessel 

Your worker am guessing will possibly have to go and I'm assuming that's your long term plan to be on your own, because if you're content to lose 1K plus of work then it's already in your mind along with only kitting out your van with a 1 man system, but you won't lose that much work you'll get the weirdo's who don't want their windows leaving wet also you don't want to send mix messages by tradding downs or saying you'll trad custys who don't want wfp, the ones who don't want wfp is the ones you can loose and you can refine your rounds

Also just to say people talk on here about needing a bigger van and 500ltrs of water, I have 350ltr tank and carry x2 25ltr containers on some days I can easily clean 25-30 houses a day a make a good wedge, granted some days less houses but that's when I am doing larger jobs I clean over 400 jobs  mostly on a 4 weekly schedule on my own ? 

 

 

[kevinc250]

If you have a full round I would upgrade your van for a larger payload.

I have had compact 325l for last 5 years been spot on never missed a beat, I would get the power reel defo recommend them. I believe they have changed the manual from the proloc.

The Tec screws they sent aren’t fit for purpose, a friend of mine fitted the tank for me he installed high tensile bolts and made some spreader plates for underneath floor pan much safer.

honestly very happy with mine space saving with the reel on top, everything enclosed pump battery and controller and completely out the way from damage.

Even had an immersion heater installed in mine where the DI vessel would normally sit. 
 

but like I say in the very beginning if you have a full round 700kg isn’t massive. 
 

i'd agree with den regarding the van, going for a water fed pole stystem opens up new avenues of work as theres a fair few things you can do with it to generate more income easily, as you are in scotland and the weather can be a bit harsh compared to those on the southern coast you will have to adapt your thoughts on the tank etc to make it work for you.

first things first, is your van a newer one with regenerative braking ie does it charge the battery when you brake? if so this would mean that you should have one of those intelligent split chargers fitted,

consider having a immersion heater fitted to the tank as on those cold days it makes life so so much easier-honestly thats a must for you if you have access to off street parking and an electrical supply.

this would then put you into the hands  of one supplier, waterworks, ie google waterworks window cleaning,i don't have one of his tanks by the way but the guy who made mine did say his was the best one on the market as an off the shelf item, and if i'm honest this guy would knows what he's on about.

jordans tanks are thicker than the others on the market and are more suitable for immersion stystems.

he also fits aswell and is  not too far away,

if it was me, and knowing what i know now, i'd go for the waterworks one with a night heater with immersion fitted it may seem a lot more money in the short term but you'll thank me later.

this reply is based on my own experence over eleven years and how to overcome cold or frozen mornings and is based on things that do do work without drastic action like duvets and oiled filled radiators etc, 

hope this helps, regards kevin

 

[dazmond]

New here and first post.  Changing over from traditional to wfp. I have a mercedes citan and it's 700 kg payload so I won't be able to get one of the bigger litre tanks.  I was going to go for the facelift compact either 325 litre or 425 . I bought one of there carbon fibre poles already.  I haven't a clue about these things and the machine looks very easy to work.  That reason is the only thing that's swayed me towards it.

I'm in a soft water area. I notice some systems are cheaper than others. What justifies ones being priced higher than others ?. Do they do something the compact doesn't ?.  I'm based in Scotland and called Douglas at aqua but he's not fitting systems anymore only selling them, so any recommendations for him is out the window.   Again I haven't a clue how to fit anything and I'm not attempting it so that's out of the question.  Are there any other systems like the compact where from what I understand its looks like its just water in with the di option then your sorted ?.   Was waiting until the 1st of January to order it on the off chance I'd maybe save a few quid if they decide to have a sale.

Personally if I were you id get a brand new van and fit a 500L tank...if you ve no plans for expansion and have many years left as a sole trader window cleaner then your van and system will last you 10 years+....

Unless of course you like the hassle of messing about changing systems every few years from one van to the next..

A 350L tank is just too small for  most WFP cleaners.. remember you should never totally drain your tank every day or you just end up with air locks galore...