Wfp system advice

[scottish cleaning service]

Yes I agree 500 ltr would be a minimum for a sole operator working a full day at a reasonable speed I don’t understand how ones work all day with  350 and come home with water I have never achieved it and don't know anyone else that does either , unless they don’t  actually do much work and sit in the van drinking tea , or driving long distances between jobs , theses comments arnt a dig or criticising anyone just stating what I and my guys have found . My philosophy is you don’t have to fill a 500 ltr tank but you cannot add more  to a smaller tank , trying to put water from barrels into the main tank on a small van is a pita better off with a bigger tank in the first place . When I started off wfp I was already well established trad cleaner , I had a 650 ltr tank and would sometimes come home with 150 ltr of water but once I got going with wfp would near enough empty it working on my own every day working from 8:30-4:30 or 5:00 on reasonably compact domestic work . I didn’t waist water either it’s a fine balance between speed and efficiency and we are all different with the flow rate we use , also depends ware you are working costal work will need more water than country villages due to the salt and amount of dirt on the window each visit ,ware as country cottage in a sheltered  spot windows  might not have much dirt on them even after 8 weeks . 

I do it all the time and only use less than 300 litres a day but I use my univalve to save pure.

 

[Pjj]

I do it all the time and only use less than 300 litres a day but I use my univalve to save pure.

Yes but you don’t work 8:30-5:00 cleaning windows every day do you you only have or had last time you gave an update around 100 regular window customers.Two of my guys will do that every day of the week ??

 

[scottish cleaning service]

Yes but you don’t work 8:30-5:00 cleaning windows every day do you you only have or had last time you gave an update around 100 regular window customers.Two of my guys will do that every day of the week ??

1. I only work 4hrs a day unless I get talking and then it goes on to 5hrs. I make over £150 then my brain grinds to a halt but the body is still keen. Sometimes I only work 2hrs and make a ton which I'm very happy with. Drive me insane cleaning 8 or even 9hrs a day. ?
   

 

[spruce]

Yes I agree 500 ltr would be a minimum for a sole operator working a full day at a reasonable speed I don’t understand how ones work all day with  350 and come home with water I have never achieved it and don't know anyone else that does either , unless they don’t  actually do much work and sit in the van drinking tea , or driving long distances between jobs , theses comments arnt a dig or criticising anyone just stating what I and my guys have found . My philosophy is you don’t have to fill a 500 ltr tank but you cannot add more  to a smaller tank , trying to put water from barrels into the main tank on a small van is a pita better off with a bigger tank in the first place . When I started off wfp I was already well established trad cleaner , I had a 650 ltr tank and would sometimes come home with 150 ltr of water but once I got going with wfp would near enough empty it working on my own every day working from 8:30-4:30 or 5:00 on reasonably compact domestic work . I didn’t waist water either it’s a fine balance between speed and efficiency and we are all different with the flow rate we use , also depends ware you are working costal work will need more water than country villages due to the salt and amount of dirt on the window each visit ,ware as country cottage in a sheltered  spot windows  might not have much dirt on them even after 8 weeks . 

I fitted 500 litre tanks to both the lad's vans. They turned out to be the right size. I started off with a Peter Fogwills wfp trailer. 3 x 150 litre tanks on board and another 100 litres in the back of the van. I was finished that at around 3 in the afternoon. In those days there were no controllers; we used 1/2" hose with 3 mm jets. I loved the rinse water flow rate, but soon realized that I was also wasting a lot of water during the washing phase.

I purchased a newly released Varistream analogue controller, 100m of minibore hose on a petal hose reel and a Vikan Oval brush head with 2mm pencil jets. I tuned that to give me a good balance between washing and rinsing flow rate and found I had enough water to last me until 5. I also cleaned more houses in a full day than ever before and mostly came back with my 100 litres untouched in the van. Hence my fitting 500 litre tanks to the lad's vans when they joined me a couple of years later.

There was another local lad with 2 identical Combo vans. One had a 400 litre upright tank and the other had a 400 litre flat tank. He always said the upright tank just wasn't big enough and the lay flat tank was a waste of time.

 

[Pjj]

1. I only work 4hrs a day unless I get talking and then it goes on to 5hrs. I make over £150 then my brain grinds to a halt but the body is still keen. Sometimes I only work 2hrs and make a ton which I'm very happy with. Drive me insane cleaning 8 or even 9hrs a day. ?
   

Yes I understand what you are saying but employees want to work 30-40 hours a week you and I might not .

 

[spruce]

1. I only work 4hrs a day unless I get talking and then it goes on to 5hrs. I make over £150 then my brain grinds to a halt but the body is still keen. Sometimes I only work 2hrs and make a ton which I'm very happy with. Drive me insane cleaning 8 or even 9hrs a day. ?
   

I wish it were that way round for me. My brain wants to work a full day, but my body doesn't.?

 

[Jonny 67]

Yes I understand what you are saying but employees want to work 30-40 hours a week you and I might not .

That's one of the real perks of this job. You can do as much or as little as you want. Once you've hit your target, whatever that may be, it's me time ?

 

[Pjj]

That's one of the real perks of this job. You can do as much or as little as you want. Once you've hit your target, whatever that may be, it's me time ?

That’s the joy of being self employed or the boss 

 

[Iron Giant]

As I've mentioned before, my aim was wfp tops and trad bottoms. Within half an hour of my first day wfp I questioned my decision and poled the lot. Best decision I made.

I believe it's best for a single operator to start with a 500 litre upright tank. He may not use a full 500 litres to begin with, but once he gets established he will, especially on a good summer's day.

Not having enough water will throttle business growth.

Next year I'll be into my 22nd year of business and if my memory serves me correctly my 14th year of wfp and a smaller tank hasn't throttled my business,

We are all different as you well know, some us will travel 100's of miles and be doing large commercial contracts and have 1000's of customers others like little me are more than happy been a man op and earning way beyond what I ever thought possible starting about 9am and be back home about 4pm we don't all wanting to working 10hrs a day and clashing our wicks out 

 

[Iron Giant]

Yes I agree 500 ltr would be a minimum for a sole operator working a full day at a reasonable speed I don’t understand how ones work all day with  350 and come home with water I have never achieved it and don't know anyone else that does either

Yet, there is some on here with a 650ltr tank and working as a 2 man team so that's 325ltrs each no one ever pipes up about them not been able to do a full day with less water than I have carry in my tank 

 

[Den]

Next year I'll be into my 22nd year of business and if my memory serves me correctly my 14th year of wfp and a smaller tank hasn't throttled my business,

We are all different as you well know, some us will travel 100's of miles and be doing large commercial contracts and have 1000's of customers others like little me are more than happy been a man op and earning way beyond what I ever thought possible starting about 9am and be back home about 4pm we don't all wanting to working 10hrs a day and clashing our wicks out 

Totally agree I work short hours compared to those that 8am to 5.00pm the folk that work to 5.00pm must be living in a different hemisphere too me in Essex at this time a year it too dark to work by 4.30pm lol all my work is local and if I need to pop home to top Up it’s not a problem.

I don’t need extra water as I don’t do extra work like fgs or Connie roofs etc. 

 

[spruce]

Yet, there is some on here with a 650ltr tank and working as a 2 man team so that's 325ltrs each no one ever pipes up about them not been able to do a full day with less water than I have carry in my tank 

I don't disagree with you at all regarding a smaller tank of 325 litres. The more experienced of us will know how much scrubbing and rinsing is required to leave the window clean. Unfortunately, the wfp newbies have to learn that with experience, and that takes time.

Most wfp newbies also won't understand vehicle payloads and axle weights. In many cases a 325 litre tank will fit into most medium size vans without being dangerously overloaded. They will often buy a vehicle without even considering payload requirements. If a 600kg payload van has been purchased, then there is no way I would fit a 500 litre tank to that.

To start off with, I would always recommend going bigger rather than smaller. You can always short fill a bigger tank, but the problem is having a tank which is too small for your daily requirements. A next size-up tank doesn't usually take up much more floor space and doesn't cost that much more either. As a newbie, I would always recommend using too much water to clean a window to begin with. Once the technique has been mastered then slowly, clean by clean, reduce the scrubbing and rinsing time.

I fitted a 500 litre tank to my son's first 800kg payload van. To begin with, he would use most of that a day. Now he uses much less with 14 years of wfp experience. My son in law also had a 500 litre tank in his 825kg payload van. Eventually he could make that fill last a day and a half. But it took him quite a while to do that; and he was cleaning our existing customers who already had had their windows cleaned wfp by us for several years prior to him joining us.

As I mentioned, my early wfp experience would have me use between 450 and 550 litres of water a day. With better equipment controller wise and jet size, I was able to clean more houses on the same road using less water during the day.

These days on my own I can't stretch a full 650 litre tank to last 2 days and I can't work a full day any longer. This is despite having a Univalve which I didn't have in those early days - I only had a tap which I dragged along the ground. For me, I'm not bothered whether I use a full 650 litres of water a day or not. I have plenty of water available with a 4040 r/o.

When we cleaned our local school, my son would get through 500 litres in 3/4 of a day. He would then plug into my van and we would empty my 650 litre tank in the later couple of hours. So for me, water usage is also very dependent on the round.

If I was to fit another tank to another van, I would still fit a 500 litre tank to his next van. However, he would probably buy a Bipper size van and request a smaller tank be fitted. ?

 

[Davy G]

We (son and I) use a 650ltr tank. We usually work about 5~6 hours and mostly use about 100 litres per hour between us. This means that we can be nearly down to the outlet sometimes by the end of the day. For the rare, occasional extra busy planned day we'll take two or three 25 litre cans of water with us as well especially if we're going to be out in the countryside. If we are going out a distance we usually work our way out doing some jobs on the way and then work our way back to base so that if we do run out of water we will be close to base to pick it up the next day. We are fairly frugal with water I'd say. Largely due to having our techniques honed and working at a brisk, efficient, driven pace.

We're also able to be fairly frugal with water because we're well inland, away from the coast so no salt and gull encrustation. Only a handful of our jobs are beside heavy, dust kicking traffic.

Once we do a very intensive, high water use first clean to get it right and make it easier for subsequent cleans they are mostly much more straightforward and less demanding on our time and our water supply.

All gfs and conservatory soapwashes are done using the customers supply and any glass rinsed off with pure water.

 

[Part Timer]

Yet, there is some on here with a 650ltr tank and working as a 2 man team so that's 325ltrs each no one ever pipes up about them not been able to do a full day with less water than I have carry in my tank 

We have a 650l tank in but can't do more then 45 houses without running out.

 

[Davy G]

We have a 650l tank in but can't do more then 45 houses without running out.

If we tried to do 45 houses I'd be a hospital case. I'd think my son would be as well.

 

[Part Timer]

If we tried to do 45 houses I'd be a hospital case. I'd think my son would be as well.

I find it far more tiring then doing the site near you ? and that pays twice as much ?

 

[Davy G]

I find it far more tiring then doing the site near you ? and that pays twice as much ?

Good that it's well worth doing. Every penny is physically worked for and earned in our game. That's a good thing for us really. Keeps us from being overrun with competition as not everyone has it in them.

 

[Jonny 67]

The only cleaners that I've seen wfp tops and trad bottoms, actually don't know what they are doing. I've even seen one cleaner wfp the bottoms and his mate trad the glass afterwards! I kid you not! Then his mate gets water on the patio doors from 3 feet away, after he'd rinsed it....

 

[JEM]

I don't have a tank in my van yet i use 25lt barrels, with the barrels i can be pretty accurate with how much water i use per house.

As I've said before I don't have a full round yet, but going with my usage of water i've worked out that i use 20ltrs for a £20 house and 30lts for a £30 ect, So about £1 per litre

I don't get how someone would use 350ltrs by lunchtime In my world with my usage that would be £350! maybe I'm more frugal with my water, i do have a Oneshot remote for the pump which i use between windows as it's instant, so maybe people with 500ltr tanks waste more water!?

Just my observations with how much i use ect.

 

[Iron Giant]

Totally agree I work short hours compared to those that 8am to 5.00pm the folk that work to 5.00pm must be living in a different hemisphere too me in Essex at this time a year it too dark to work by 4.30pm lol all my work is local and if I need to pop home to top Up it’s not a problem.

I don’t need extra water as I don’t do extra work like fgs or Connie roofs etc. 

Exactly, my thinking is the same

It does make me wonder how some manage when the working hours are reduced over the winter, I know a lad who'd happily work till 6pm through Spring into Autumn  but him and lad who helps him out clash the work out and are having to work doubly hard to get through the workload this would really sicken me off working like that.

 

[Iron Giant]

I don't disagree with you at all regarding a smaller tank of 325 litres. The more experienced of us will know how much scrubbing and rinsing is required to leave the window clean. Unfortunately, the wfp newbies have to learn that with experience, and that takes time.

Most wfp newbies also won't understand vehicle payloads and axle weights. In many cases a 325 litre tank will fit into most medium size vans without being dangerously overloaded. They will often buy a vehicle without even considering payload requirements. If a 600kg payload van has been purchased, then there is no way I would fit a 500 litre tank to that.

To start off with, I would always recommend going bigger rather than smaller. You can always short fill a bigger tank, but the problem is having a tank which is too small for your daily requirements. A next size-up tank doesn't usually take up much more floor space and doesn't cost that much more either. As a newbie, I would always recommend using too much water to clean a window to begin with. Once the technique has been mastered then slowly, clean by clean, reduce the scrubbing and rinsing time.

I fitted a 500 litre tank to my son's first 800kg payload van. To begin with, he would use most of that a day. Now he uses much less with 14 years of wfp experience. My son in law also had a 500 litre tank in his 825kg payload van. Eventually he could make that fill last a day and a half. But it took him quite a while to do that; and he was cleaning our existing customers who already had had their windows cleaned wfp by us for several years prior to him joining us.

As I mentioned, my early wfp experience would have me use between 450 and 550 litres of water a day. With better equipment controller wise and jet size, I was able to clean more houses on the same road using less water during the day.

These days on my own I can't stretch a full 650 litre tank to last 2 days and I can't work a full day any longer. This is despite having a Univalve which I didn't have in those early days - I only had a tap which I dragged along the ground. For me, I'm not bothered whether I use a full 650 litres of water a day or not. I have plenty of water available with a 4040 r/o.

When we cleaned our local school, my son would get through 500 litres in 3/4 of a day. He would then plug into my van and we would empty my 650 litre tank in the later couple of hours. So for me, water usage is also very dependent on the round.

If I was to fit another tank to another van, I would still fit a 500 litre tank to his next van. However, he would probably buy a Bipper size van and request a smaller tank be fitted. ?

I get what you're saying more so if someone is converting their rounds from trad to wfp starting out or even been as experienced as us 3x more water can be needed on a first clean this something that a lot just don't get and yes some ain't got a clue about payloads and will overload their van and yes the footprint of a wyedale 500ltr tank for example is only an extra 10cm in width and length compared to  a 350ltr tank the height doesn't effect most vans so that wouldn't be an issue

I think what needs a little clarification is what some mean by bigger a every windy doesn't need a big van like a Vivaro a small van with 1000kg payload would do the job and every windy won't need to go down the road of doing add on's and buying a gutter vac etc