Hot water systems

[kevinc250]

Cheers, does the pole get hot?  Also how much faster do you think it is?  I think I'll fill up some hot water and give it a go.  Is there a sweet spot on the temperature to remove the dirt or is it a case of as hot as poss? I mean when you clean your dirty rags in the washing machine at 30, well they look nothing like as clean when washing them at 60, never tried 90 but I'd expect them to be cleaner again.  

@chris34 ask to meet up with @dazmond as I don't think he's that far away from you to see what you think about hot water, regarding heatwise, some love the higher temps whereas others find the lower temps 35-45/50 works just great for them, its all about your location really and what you have to deal with as in bird poo or salty air etc so theres no hard and fast rule of thumb for everyone its just down to your location, warm water behaves differently to cold water and hence the cleaning time is shortened, how much by depends on you and the equipment you have to hand, for me when I first started a time saving of an hour over the day wasn't a problem and moving on as the frames and glass are a tad cleaner you could argue that there could be a further saving in time on maintainence cleans 

 

[Pjj]

Cheers, does the pole get hot?  Also how much faster do you think it is?  I think I'll fill up some hot water and give it a go.  Is there a sweet spot on the temperature to remove the dirt or is it a case of as hot as poss? I mean when you clean your dirty rags in the washing machine at 30, well they look nothing like as clean when washing them at 60, never tried 90 but I'd expect them to be cleaner again.  

It keeps your hands warm thus keeping your whole body warm I very rarely put on a jacket , unless it’s raining evan in the coldest of weather . Cleaning times are reduced we do a lot of Costal work and sometimes after storms the salt is 3-4 mm thick and the glass looks opaque and we regularly get sand and sea weed on the windows and doors jobs like this literally take half the time that they did with cold water . Summer time we have a major problem with seagull poo on practically  every window we do , backed on oily bird poo is a nightmare with cold hot eats through it so much faster and will even remove the oily marks that cold wouldn’t generally get off . It is expensive to run but we do far more work than we did using cold so it more than pays for its self , I know a lot won’t agree with what I have said , I have a guy who works fir me now that used tk have his own round using cold , when he started working for me he said hot was a waist of time and money , having worked for me now for two years he said he cannot believe the difference in speed of cleaning and how much better the frames come up , when we pick up new customers they always comment how much whiter /cleaner the frames are , I was cold wfp for around 10 years when I started using hot on those same jobs the customers noticed quite a difference with the frames , so it does a far superior job to cold it will remove dulling that cold won’t . 

As for temperature generaly it’s 50-65 degrees at the brush head depending on ambient temperature , and the length of hose out it can be much hotter if only 15-25 meters of hose is out we quite often have steam coming off the windows or the building walls 

 

[AGlassAct]

I've been using a 2kw immersion for a couple of years, throughout the year. As per Squeeky Clean Dave, youtube. 650ltr Wyedale flat tank allowed me to fit it very near the bottom so I can heat all the water. I can get 60 degrees c in a heat from 5pm to 9am in the winter. About 25 - 30 degrees in a 5pm to 11pm heat in the summer and lose very little heat overnight as the tank is very well insulated. The running cost is about 6p per hour as far as I know. The water stays at almost the same temperature throughout the working day even in winter. 

When I had an immersion I used to circulate the water through the hose reel back in to the top of the tank - this served as an extra frost prevention measure and also aided heating the water throughout the tank. I’d worked it out to cost around £2.50 to heat 400 litres. You must be on the cheapest electricity tariff if yours is 6p per kWh. Mine/the average is around 13.5p per kWh. 

 

[Chris34]

It keeps your hands warm thus keeping your whole body warm I very rarely put on a jacket , unless it’s raining evan in the coldest of weather . Cleaning times are reduced we do a lot of Costal work and sometimes after storms the salt is 3-4 mm thick and the glass looks opaque and we regularly get sand and sea weed on the windows and doors jobs like this literally take half the time that they did with cold water . Summer time we have a major problem with seagull poo on practically  every window we do , backed on oily bird poo is a nightmare with cold hot eats through it so much faster and will even remove the oily marks that cold wouldn’t generally get off . It is expensive to run but we do far more work than we did using cold so it more than pays for its self , I know a lot won’t agree with what I have said , I have a guy who works fir me now that used tk have his own round using cold , when he started working for me he said hot was a waist of time and money , having worked for me now for two years he said he cannot believe the difference in speed of cleaning and how much better the frames come up , when we pick up new customers they always comment how much whiter /cleaner the frames are , I was cold wfp for around 10 years when I started using hot on those same jobs the customers noticed quite a difference with the frames , so it does a far superior job to cold it will remove dulling that cold won’t . 

As for temperature generaly it’s 50-65 degrees at the brush head depending on ambient temperature , and the length of hose out it can be much hotter if only 15-25 meters of hose is out we quite often have steam coming off the windows or the building walls 

Sold, that's enough for me to hear.  

You wouldn't wash a car with cold water, the dishes with cold water or your clothes with cold water as the results are not as good and it takes longer so it makes perfect sense that cleaning with hot water is the best option.

It's more the frames that I was thinking of as the ones I've done are good but I can spot bits that are looking a little dull, sounds like hot water will slow / stop this happening.

I would guess the rinse is easier aswell as like Kevin said, it behaves differently.

I'll probably try the immersion heater method to begin with.  

 

[wee man]

Sold, that's enough for me to hear.  

You wouldn't wash a car with cold water, the dishes with cold water or your clothes with cold water as the results are not as good and it takes longer so it makes perfect sense that cleaning with hot water is the best option.

It's more the frames that I was thinking of as the ones I've done are good but I can spot bits that are looking a little dull, sounds like hot water will slow / stop this happening.

I would guess the rinse is easier aswell as like Kevin said, it behaves differently.

I'll probably try the immersion heater method to begin with.  

Every time I go to a car wash it's done in cold water ? 

I'm not saying hot water isn't better cause common sense tells you it is. 

I'm waiting on the bloke from the other forum getting his ready, he said it would be about £500 for a diesel heater, but saying it's costing more now so even at grand it's still a lot cheaper than anything about atm. 

 

[Chris34]

Every time I go to a car wash it's done in cold water ? 

I'm not saying hot water isn't better cause common sense tells you it is. 

I'm waiting on the bloke from the other forum getting his ready, he said it would be about £500 for a diesel heater, but saying it's costing more now so even at grand it's still a lot cheaper than anything about atm. 

Is that a hand car wash?  I would think the only cold car washes would be the roller type, where the brushes are doing the work or the high pressure ones where they spray a foam over the car, let it dwell and then blast it off at high pressure.

 

[wee man]

Is that a hand car wash?  I would think the only cold car washes would be the roller type, where the brushes are doing the work or the high pressure ones where they spray a foam over the car, let it dwell and then blast it off at high pressure.

Yes there all hand wash here, wet, spray on then use cloth and then rinse.  All with cold water. 

 

[Chris34]

Just looking up the immersion heaters, if you were clever then a solar panel on the roof and signing up for the government fits payments would mean that you would get free hot water and get paid for doing it via the 'fits scheme'.  Unfortunately the scheme closed in April but anybody who had signed up before could essentially have got paid to produce hot water.  :1f911:  

 

[Part Timer]

I only use hot water on first cleans, it makes a big difference on these and does help on bad bird marks. 

 

[Chris34]

Yes there all hand wash here, wet, spray on then use cloth and then rinse.  All with cold water. 

Well I cannot believe that they would be better or easier, goes against everything I've learned about cleaning over the years.  Probably to keep the cost down.

I only use hot water on first cleans, it makes a big difference on these and does help on bad bird marks. 

How come you don't use it on maintenance cleans?

 

[wee man]

I only use hot water on first cleans, it makes a big difference on these and does help on bad bird marks. 

Hi Part Timer do you have a gas heater or desiel heater? 

I would definitely like one for all the time just the price scares me off.. ( desiel heater) 

 

[Davy G]

When I had an immersion I used to circulate the water through the hose reel back in to the top of the tank - this served as an extra frost prevention measure and also aided heating the water throughout the tank. I’d worked it out to cost around £2.50 to heat 400 litres. You must be on the cheapest electricity tariff if yours is 6p per kWh. Mine/the average is around 13.5p per kWh. 

I could be well mistaken. That's what I thought it was last time I asked my wife as she takes care of that side of things. I'll check over the next couple of days and post the price we pay per unit (kW hour).

We just checked. Yup, you're right. I was well out. Our rate is 14. 87 pence per kilowatt hour. I don't know where I got that earlier guess from. 

Genuine mistake of memory. I should have checked before posting.

In the winter it's on from about 5pm till 9am = 16 hours = about £2.50 if we've done the sums right. However, it's thermostatically controlled so won't be on all the time once it's up to temperature. I'd rather not have it re-circulating as I find by not re-circulating it I'm using the less heated water first and as the level drops the hotter water which is nearer the top, gets lower down in the tank. Even in the coldest weather I can't hold my hand in the remaining water in the tank after a full working day. We hang our jackets above the tank and even when they're damp they are dry and warm in the morning. We've insulated the roof of the van with foil coated bubble wrap fixed on with airosol carpet glue. The sides are ply lined so no worries about cold in the van. 

 

[Chris34]

Hi Part Timer do you have a gas heater or desiel heater? 

I would definitely like one for all the time just the price scares me off.. ( desiel heater) 

Check out this, about £50.

 

[wee man]

8 minutes ago, Chris34 said:



Check out this, about £50.

Cheers but I live in a upstairs flat so it's not possible, but really good for someone with a driveway or garage.  

 

[Davy G]

Sold, that's enough for me to hear.  

You wouldn't wash a car with cold water, the dishes with cold water or your clothes with cold water as the results are not as good and it takes longer so it makes perfect sense that cleaning with hot water is the best option.

It's more the frames that I was thinking of as the ones I've done are good but I can spot bits that are looking a little dull, sounds like hot water will slow / stop this happening.

I would guess the rinse is easier aswell as like Kevin said, it behaves differently.

I'll probably try the immersion heater method to begin with.  

If you do the immersion system right you might find you'll stick with it. 

Cheers but I live in a upstairs flat so it's not possible, but really good for someone with a driveway or garage.  

Yeah, that's a pity. It certainly makes things more difficult for you. 

 

[Pjj]

Every time I go to a car wash it's done in cold water ? 

I'm not saying hot water isn't better cause common sense tells you it is. 

I'm waiting on the bloke from the other forum getting his ready, he said it would be about £500 for a diesel heater, but saying it's costing more now so even at grand it's still a lot cheaper than anything about atm. 

The thing is do you want something that’s been cobbled together in his garage and and made by trial and error or do you want a professional installation with a three year guarantee??? I know which I would chose , it might well work but it’s not recognised by any insurance company and he has cut off the heat exchanger from the body of the motor who will be responsible if it over heats and explodes or catches fire ??? It is an un proven design  and as such I wouldn’t want it in my van , again what is the reliability going to be like it’s a cheap Chinese copy of a wabasto/eberspatcher  it might be fine it might not but when it’s 5 years old and done over 10,000 hours run time then we will be in more of a position to tell ,

 

[AGlassAct]

Every time I go to a car wash it's done in cold water ? 

I'm not saying hot water isn't better cause common sense tells you it is. 

I'm waiting on the bloke from the other forum getting his ready, he said it would be about £500 for a diesel heater, but saying it's costing more now so even at grand it's still a lot cheaper than anything about atm. 

That’s ridiculous wee man - I’ve got a 9kW Ionics SYSTEM for sale in the marketplace for a grand, I’ll strip the heater off for you if you want to ‘cobble’ something together in your garage!!!! ?

Shame your not local - I’d happily show you the difference between the 5kW and 9kW webasto heaters (that are purpose built). I tried a 5kW webasto out of a car and they seem to have a different PCB, they come on for 2 hours and shut down - you then have to start it up again. A total waste of time and money. Buy once and buy the real macoy.

 

[wee man]

The thing is do you want something that’s been cobbled together in his garage and and made by trial and error or do you want a professional installation with a three year guarantee??? I know which I would chose , it might well work but it’s not recognised by any insurance company and he has cut off the heat exchanger from the body of the motor who will be responsible if it over heats and explodes or catches fire ??? It is an un proven design  and as such I wouldn’t want it in my van , again what is the reliability going to be like it’s a cheap Chinese copy of a wabasto/eberspatcher  it might be fine it might not but when it’s 5 years old and done over 10,000 hours run time then we will be in more of a position to tell ,

I'll take the first one at a 1/3 of the price.

We only want hot water on the go its not really that hard, ffs you can get coffee ready water out of a tap now a days..

That’s ridiculous wee man - I’ve got a 9kW Ionics SYSTEM for sale in the marketplace for a grand, I’ll strip the heater off for you if you want to ‘cobble’ something together in your garage!!!! ?

Shame your not local - I’d happily show you the difference between the 5kW and 9kW webasto heaters (that are purpose built). I tried a 5kW webasto out of a car and they seem to have a different PCB, they come on for 2 hours and shut down - you then have to start it up again. A total waste of time and money. Buy once and buy the real macoy.

I try and buy the best with all my work stuff but the hot water gear is just so over priced.. 

 

[Pjj]

I'll take the first one at a 1/3 of the price.

We only want hot water on the go its not really that hard, ffs you can get coffee ready water out of a tap now a days..

The heater he has decided to use has a heat exchanger built into it to act as a heat sink to prevent over heating and heat air , he has cut this off and cobbled together a water heat exchanger with no proven design he has totally altered  the design and use of this heater , by trial and error is it kite marked ??? Is it type approved?. Has it been tested , the answer to all the above is no ,and you are prepared to install that in your van ?. What will happen if it catches fire or explodes ? You won’t be insured as it’s an unapproved and potentially dangerous installation . It may well work but before he sells them they need to be tested by professional people not someone in his garage or members of a forum , should the worst happen he will find himself in court for selling unsafe products or possibly worse . 

 

[wee man]

The heater he has decided to use has a heat exchanger built into it to act as a heat sink to prevent over heating and heat air , he has cut this off and cobbled together a water heat exchanger with no proven design he has totally altered  the design and use of this heater , by trial and error is it kite marked ??? Is it type approved?. Has it been tested , the answer to all the above is no ,and you are prepared to install that in your van ?. What will happen if it catches fire or explodes ? You won’t be insured as it’s an unapproved and potentially dangerous installation . It may well work but before he sells them they need to be tested by professional people not someone in his garage or members of a forum , should the worst happen he will find himself in court for selling unsafe products or possibly worse . 

For me personally I'll willing to take the chance.  ( I don't employ and my vans is over 12 years old ) 

 

[Pjj]

For me personally I'll willing to take the chance.  ( I don't employ and my vans is over 12 years old ) 

Thats up to you , there are a lot of very foolish people out there I have come across over 30 years in the Fireservice that thought they knew best  and took risks , some have killed themselves or others ,or lost everything they had due to this kind of attitude crack on just don’t involve anyone else