Hot water systems

[kevinc250]

6 hours ago, Ian Sheppard said:

For those considering hot water systems. There is a V11 hot water ( frost stat) controller that will manage the pump in th usual way. It also has a output to switch a diesel heater. One of the useful features during the winter months is frost protection. The controller will switch the heater and pump for a short period to prevent over night freezing.

The controller would also work with a Gas heater to protect the system against frost. With a gas heater the controller woudl switch the pump to create circulation, this circulation will then get gas boiler running.

Remember to consider adequate ventilation of the heater gasses

correct me if i'm wrong ian as, i'm sure I will be but,did there used to be a different controller for the gas heaters as opposed to the diesel ones, also if I remember the eberspachers needed a different controller I think it was down to the different start up and shut down cycle as to the webasto its only from what steve scargill told me when I was toying with different ideas on how to heat the water and which avenue to go down

regards kevin

 

[Ian Sheppard]

Hi Kevin

Yes that was the case. The reason being that the older V9 hot water controllers had a set flow rate of 10 when the frost protection cut in. This was sufficient to create a low circulation through the system to stop the pump freezing. The 12V output then switched the webasto heater.

A gas heater needed a higher flow recirculation rate to light the boiler.  So we used to have to hard code a higher flow rate during frost protection for gas heaters to ensure it was sufficient.

When the V11 came along we added an option to the frost setting which allows the recirculation rate to be changed between 10 and 40, In the newer versions there is also an adjustable frost activation set point between 1 and 5C. So the the newer V11 will work with both. These options are shown in the video from 1min 44

 

[J and S]

Any links to suppliers of these systems that are tailored specifically for window cleaning?

Dazmond where you get yours?

 

[Ian Sheppard]

Hi J-S

These offer HW systems

Grippa

Pure Freedom

X-line

Window Cleaning Warehouse

The Cleaning warehouse

Cleaningspot

Streamline

 

[J and S]

Cheers Ian.

 

[Davy G]

Hi J-S

These offer HW systems

Grippa

Pure Freedom

X-line

Window Cleaning Warehouse

The Cleaning warehouse

Cleaningspot

Streamline

Squeeky Clean Dave. Youtube. ?

 

[Fergus MacDougall]

Yes grippatank state it will invalidate the warrantee , there is a lot of controversy with red diesel , some red diesel is indeed white with a dye in it but there is also a marine grade diesel that is red that’s totally different it’s thus stuff that causes problems with  the heater , a friend of mine is a marine engineer and electrician and he said they get no end of problems with ones run on the red marine stuff  i also  understand that the marine grade red is being done away with at some point ????? My boiler is now 5 years old and done  over 10000 hours never been serviced and runs sweet as a nut always been run on white road diesel . 

In the USA they run them on keresene I think it’s a bit like our aviation fuel that is also very good as it produces less carbon build up on the screen so several friends have told me . It’s an expensive way of having hot water I admit that but I would never go back to cold now , it’s well worth the expense , and defiantly the best way to safely do the job 

Pjs do you have a grippatank system?

Interested to know what you think looking to purchase a system

 

[Pjj]

Pjs do you have a grippatank system?

Interested to know what you think looking to purchase a system

I have  ionics systems with grippatank 9kw boilers , the boiler is now 5 years old and run over 10,000 hours without missing a beat , cannot comment on grippatank system as I don't have one , but most that do have them say they are good . 

 

[Fergus MacDougall]

Cheers thanks for the advice.

 

[NewGuy]

Sorry to bring up the constant debate about hot water systems.

I have been thinking about investing in a hot water system but after reading comments, I gather there won't be any real benefits for me.

I don't need to work any quicker.

I don't have an issue with firm hoses in winter.

I cope just fine with the occasional bird **** on windows.

I just want to ensure that my system works in the freezing temperature.

I presume investing in a hot water system (I already have the GrippaTank equipment so I could have a system retrofitted) at a cost of a few £000s wouldn't bring me any real benefits and that I would be better focussing on insulating my vehicle to protect against freezing water (garage hoses overnight) as best I can.

I have a super king size duvet ready to wrap the tank/pump.  Just need to look at what (and how) to use to insulate my canopy (I use a pick up truck).

 

[Davy G]

Double foil sided bubble wrap stuck on with aerosol spray can carpet adhesive. Rubber matting on the floor. Use plenty of both. Stick a big can of hot water under the duvet if it looks like freezing weather. Insulate the can individually as you want the heat to escape very slowly through the night.

 

[dazmond]

I could never go back to cold water cleaning.....I spend 25-30 hours a week window cleaning....hot water just makes your working day much more comfortable and easier esp in the cold winter months....

 

[NewGuy]

I could never go back to cold water cleaning.....I spend 25-30 hours a week window cleaning....hot water just makes your working day much more comfortable and easier esp in the cold winter months....

I'm sorry but I cannot see how it's more comfortable and easier (I appreciate that for first cleans and filthy windows it's easier)?

 

[Pjj]

I'm sorry but I cannot see how it's more comfortable and easier (I appreciate that for first cleans and filthy windows it's easier)?

If you are used to driving an old A40 car you would have no idear what it’s like to drive a rolls Royce it’s exactly the same with hot and cold water for cleaning , I was cold wfp for 10 years I have had hot water for  the last 6:5 years and would never go back I wish now I had gone to hot years before , I have 3 vans and put hot in them all if it wasn’t better I certainly wouldn’t have spent the best part of 15k doing it 

 

[Davy G]

It is more comfortable on the hands when it's a cold day. It's also easier and a bit quicker due to the shear usability of the hose. 

 

[steve garwood]

I used hot for best part of ten years (fogwash heater). I’m using cold at the moment and it’s no big deal for me ?

 

[NewGuy]

If you are used to driving an old A40 car you would have no idear what it’s like to drive a rolls Royce it’s exactly the same with hot and cold water for cleaning , I was cold wfp for 10 years I have had hot water for  the last 6:5 years and would never go back I wish now I had gone to hot years before , I have 3 vans and put hot in them all if it wasn’t better I certainly wouldn’t have spent the best part of 15k doing it 

I have seen many threads from you stating this.  But not really seen anything to say why it's better.  I truly believe in paying extra for something that brings real benefits.

I appreciate you come across plenty of sea salt and gull **** on the windows you clean but I don't have this problem, despite servicing an Island on an estuary.  I have no trouble cleaning with cold water.

For regular cleans, on relatively clean windows, I fail to understand why hot water would be better.  I appreciate I'm still considered a "newbie" but I have been cleaning windows for 18 months now with no difficulties.  Trust me, I really want a hot water system...but my head is telling me it's not worth the extra £000s after having spent £000s on a GrippaTank system already this year!

 

[NewGuy]

It is more comfortable on the hands when it's a cold day. It's also easier and a bit quicker due to the shear usability of the hose. 

I appreciate your views but as a window cleaner, I'm prepared to tolerate cold hands.

I appreciate I could save a few seconds per window etc...

But not for £000s! ?

 

[dazmond]

I'm sorry but I cannot see how it's more comfortable and easier (I appreciate that for first cleans and filthy windows it's easier)?

Of course it is!......I've used both and I know which I prefer.....you carry on with your freezing cold water and unmanageable hose......rather you than me mate!??

 

[dazmond]

I appreciate your views but as a window cleaner, I'm prepared to tolerate cold hands.

I appreciate I could save a few seconds per window etc...

But not for £000s! ?

You dont have to spend a fortune...you could fit an immersion and insulate your tank if you cant afford a diesel heater....

 

[Davy G]

I appreciate your views but as a window cleaner, I'm prepared to tolerate cold hands.

I appreciate I could save a few seconds per window etc...

But not for £000s! ?

You asked the question and got honest answers. We can do no more. No one is telling you to do or spend anything. In the end we all have to make our own decisions.