How to get good staff?

[adamangler]

I think over time we all find what works for us. There's so many ways you can be a window cleaner, from part time, to full time, to employing or not etc.

It's all really effort Vs reward, how much work do you want to do and how much stress  Vs how much do you want to make. The more you try to earn either solo or employing then your stress and workload will go up.

Personally I've now found a way that works for me and gives me a balance that I'm happy with.

I have a young lad working 3 days a week with me as a 2 man and in those days we smash the work out. 

We are getting through all my work in 3 days which I used to be behind on constantly on my own. I am now pushing for more work to get us up to 4 days a week.

Then that's me done, I don't want to work more than 4 days a week, nor do I want to go over vat. Nor do I want multiple vans, loads of employees and stress. 

But I do want 1 employee and I do prefer working as a 2 man overall rather than solo and it's mainly from a mental point of view. When I was solo I lacked motivation, early finishes, days off, oh I'll do that tomorrow etc. 5 days a week in all weather on your own just got boring and draining. With someone else in the van it's more motivating. It's also an easier day, I do fronts and sort the tickets talk to custy whilst laddo is doing the backs, dealing with higher windows, awkward angles and more reeling in etc. 

The most important thing working this way is you must employ someone you like and get on with. Working with someone who you just don't click with done that and hated it. You must get on or its a no go, it's a team effort working this way and you must be in sync.

My aim over the next year is to get up to just under the vat threshold whilst paying out as little expenses as possible. So putting prices up, doing more in a day, paying for less hours etc and generally making it as efficient as possible whilst doing the least work possible and reducing stress to a minimum.

That's just what I have stumbled across after a few years so hopefully everyone else will find a way that work for them be it solo or multiple vans etc.

 

[Dave Shaw]

I also don't have kids and don't need to knock off early to play on the PS4 [emoji23]

County Durham Lad

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji106]you don’t realise how precious time is until you don’t have any.


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[Dave Shaw]

I think over time we all find what works for us. There's so many ways you can be a window cleaner, from part time, to full time, to employing or not etc.
 
It's all really effort Vs reward, how much work do you want to do and how much stress  Vs how much do you want to make. The more you try to earn either solo or employing then your stress and workload will go up.
 
Personally I've now found a way that works for me and gives me a balance that I'm happy with.
 
I have a young lad working 3 days a week with me as a 2 man and in those days we smash the work out. 
 
We are getting through all my work in 3 days which I used to be behind on constantly on my own. I am now pushing for more work to get us up to 4 days a week.
 
Then that's me done, I don't want to work more than 4 days a week, nor do I want to go over vat. Nor do I want multiple vans, loads of employees and stress. 
 
But I do want 1 employee and I do prefer working as a 2 man overall rather than solo and it's mainly from a mental point of view. When I was solo I lacked motivation, early finishes, days off, oh I'll do that tomorrow etc. 5 days a week in all weather on your own just got boring and draining. With someone else in the van it's more motivating. It's also an easier day, I do fronts and sort the tickets talk to custy whilst laddo is doing the backs, dealing with higher windows, awkward angles and more reeling in etc. 
 
The most important thing working this way is you must employ someone you like and get on with. Working with someone who you just don't click with done that and hated it. You must get on or its a no go, it's a team effort working this way and you must be in sync.
 
My aim over the next year is to get up to just under the vat threshold whilst paying out as little expenses as possible. So putting prices up, doing more in a day, paying for less hours etc and generally making it as efficient as possible whilst doing the least work possible and reducing stress to a minimum.
 
That's just what I have stumbled across after a few years so hopefully everyone else will find a way that work for them be it solo or multiple vans etc.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

You took the words right out of my mouth.


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[adamangler]

You took the words right out of my mouth.


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Also I would add that if I ever want to i could always employ a full timer. Staying just under vat with 1-2 employees and 1-2 vans max is the way forward for me.

I just hope the vat threshold doesnt come down like was talked about not long ago, hopefully it keeps going up!

 

[Dave Shaw]

 
Also I would add that if I ever want to i could always employ a full timer. Staying just under vat with 1-2 employees and 1-2 vans max is the way forward for me.
 
I just hope the vat threshold doesnt come down like was talked about not long ago, hopefully it keeps going up!
 

I’ve thought about that myself and it’s certainly do-able when the time comes for early retirement. Can’t see the vat reg ever coming down tbh as the massive effect it would have on many small businesses would be bad for the economy plus would probs put a lot out of business altogether.


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[THL4KEL]

Just to follow up on the title how to get good staff - you need to know how to interview people and find out as much as you can about what motivates them. Is it money, good working hours, gave being self employed a go and it's easier to work for someone. Are they looking for ongoing work or is this just a stop gap job.. Do they have something going on in their lives which might impact full-time employment.

Most companies these days go through a process of telephone interview, a few basic questions and find out salary expectations. 

Then if successful a face to face interview. Draft up at least ten questions for this..

If I was looking for staff I would then put through the best two candidates for a days trial on the job. See if they have potential and are they physically fit enough for the job and will they fit in working with me. 

Then I would pick the best person for the job. 

I used to do a bit of recruitment for companies I worked for in the past.. Hiring management jobs, trades and truck drivers, machine operators.

I remember an old boss I had once and he owned a pretty big haulage company. His policy was no drivers weighing over 100kg because they trash the seats in the trucks.. He had a fairly big list of types not to hire.. 

 

[Part Timer]

His policy was no drivers weighing over 100kg because they trash the seats in the trucks.. He had a fairly big list of types not to hire.. 

I wouldn't have worked for him then ?

 

[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

Moderation - get back to being civil with each other lads. 

On the topic of the O.P. 'How to find good staff'

Job Centre = waste of time as most applicants are forced to apply in order to be able to continue to sign on. 

F.B. / GUMTREE = Waste of time as you get bottom of barrel with moms and girlfriends pushing lazy dossers off the PS4 and putting them forward for positions they wouldn't apply for themselves cause then they cant play fifa. 

Sites like Indeed and Monster Jobs are the way forward.  People on there have to interact with the site and hence are more likely to actively be looking for work.  You get a pile of CVs in then sift through them then start on phone interviews then down to the ones you want to meet then hopefully you get a god one. When advertising on Indeed (which we currently are) pay the £5 per day 'boost' and you'll get much better response much faster. 

Regarding wages. 

95% on here are owner / workers - you own the business, you build the business and you put in so many hours to get there that you don't realize that it's not £40 per hour all day every day by the time a the admin, collecting, van maintenance, banking etc is done for the day.  

Law says minimum for an adult is just below £8 per hour - so £10 per hour is a good 20% above what is almost guaranteed to be the national average. 

'I wouldn't work for a poxy £10 per hour so I dont  expect others to!'  --- total nonsense.  You dont work for £10 per hour because you own the business and built it ground up and still graft daily to make it work.  They just turn in and complete a list of chores. Two very different roles. 

Also remember no one is holding a gun to anyones head. If they don't want to work for £10 per hour they dom't have to.  They can go elsewhere. 

 

[Part Timer]

'I wouldn't work for a poxy £10 per hour so I dont  expect others to!'  --- total nonsense.

"Get back to being civil with each others lads" and then quote me and say "total nonsense" If that is being civil I wouldn't like you being rude. You don't know me from Adam so please don't try and second guess what I would and wouldn't do. 

The only person I currently use is a young lad, 23, who I use on gutter jobs down south. I pay him £200 a day, when the going rate is £120. Why you might say, because I wouldn't do it for £120. 

 

[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

"Get back to being civil with each others lads" and then quote me and say "total nonsense" If that is being civil I wouldn't like you being rude. You don't know me from Adam so please don't try and second guess what I would and wouldn't do. 

The only person I currently use is a young lad, 23, who I use on gutter jobs down south. I pay him £200 a day, when the going rate is £120. Why you might say, because I wouldn't do it for £120. 

You've miss interpreted the 'total nonsense' comment P.T.  (or i've miss represented the comment)  

What it means are there are thousands, hundreds of thousands if not millions working for £10 per hour or less..  with that in mind how can you expect people to not work for £10 per hour.  Not intended as an attack on your morals at all. 

However.. you are also not a typical employer, you say you never need to work again and this is a hobby for you so you obviously cant have the stress of making bank to keep bills and expenses met that many employers building a business for a future  instead of a hobby will be facing. 

You also say you use this lad down south for gutter jobs so seems a casual arrangement as and when you need him as opposed to the responsibility of looking after his taxes N.I. pensions etc. 

When I use Dave or Lee up North ( Both experienced lads) for roof cleans they bill me at £150 to £175 per day for their labour.  

Both your example and mine are very different from keeping full time staff on the books week in week out through the rough weather days off, sick pay, annual leave etc that my full time staff get. 

Or am I miss interpreting you this time?  You paying this lad £200 per day for his 5.6 weeks annual leave every year and looking after his taxes, NI and pensions for him? 

How I read you PT is he is a subby not a full time employee and these are two very different kettles of fish as Im sure a man with your business experience can agree. 

My responses have been in keeping with the OP finding employees - not hiring casual subs (which is how I have interpreted the above)  

 

[Part Timer]

You've miss interpreted the 'total nonsense' comment P.T.  (or i've miss represented the comment)  

What it means are there are thousands, hundreds of thousands if not millions working for £10 per hour or less..  with that in mind how can you expect people to not work for £10 per hour.  Not intended as an attack on your morals at all. 

However.. you are also not a typical employer, you say you never need to work again and this is a hobby for you so you obviously cant have the stress of making bank to keep bills and expenses met that many employers building a business for a future  instead of a hobby will be facing. 

You also say you use this lad down south for gutter jobs so seems a casual arrangement as and when you need him as opposed to the responsibility of looking after his taxes N.I. pensions etc. 

When I use Dave or Lee up North ( Both experienced lads) for roof cleans they bill me at £150 to £175 per day for their labour.  

Both your example and mine are very different from keeping full time staff on the books week in week out through the rough weather days off, sick pay, annual leave etc that my full time staff get. 

Or am I miss interpreting you this time?  You paying this lad £200 per day for his 5.6 weeks annual leave every year and looking after his taxes, NI and pensions for him? 

How I read you PT is he is a subby not a full time employee and these are two very different kettles of fish as Im sure a man with your business experience can agree. 

My responses have been in keeping with the OP finding employees - not hiring casual subs (which is how I have interpreted the above)  

I have never said I don't need to work again, I don't need to earn from the windows because if I packed it in I could make one phone call and get a very well paid job in the scrap industry, I currently gross about £400 a week doing the scrap job now. This isn't a hobby it's a challenge to build a sustainable business that when I'm to old to continue, according to @Den this time is rapidly approaching, my son can then step in and grow it however he sees fit. As I've said before I ran a business 20 years ago that needed to gross £16k a week to break even, so I do actually know a thing or 2 about stress and paying bills.

The OP asked what he would need to do to get good staff, in my opinion paying just above minimum wage won't achieve that. My example of the lad I use was because I pay him far more than "the going rate" The fact he isn't employed by me doesn't matter, it was used because I wouldn't work for a £120 a day as a subby and I wouldn't do a decent days work if someone paid me £10 an hour.

 

[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

I'm doing this for fun now, don't need to earn a penny from window cleaning

So perhaps I paraphrased a little, but it comes across the same.  

Look mate, no one is doubting your experience or questioning your business ethics, those are yours and it's as simple as that.  

Here's where what you're saying does not work for me.  

1 van with 2 operators (the way we now choose and prefer to work)   = Mean average of £500 TURNOVER per day.  

Insurances, fuel, admin, etc, wear on van and tools, etc, etc lets say £50 per day

Paying P.T. Rates = £400 in staff 

Total = £450 per day in expenditure 

Final result = I AM BETTER OFF GOING AND GETTING A MINIMUM WAGE JOB!!  ?

Myself and I reckon some 90% of the lads on here do not have your vast bank of top shelf commercial jobs to be done regular - if I have understood your previous posts (over time) you mostly target large commercial.  

We on the other hand have large bases of (well priced by comparison to other local window cleaners) domestic work and at some point there is only so many hours in a day the lads can clean for and they aren't lazy.  

We chose the domestic market specifically as we don't want to be in commercial around here as everyone has 'bargain basement'  mentality to commercial around here. 

If I were to 'sub out' the work I would be happy to pay £250 per day and have no costs to me and take myself £200 per day.  If we were still doing roof cleans at £1200 ++++ per job I would happily be able to pay £200 per day per man but this isn't that, this is a domestic window cleaning business whos turnover and cash flow (like any business) dictate how much can actually be paid per hour.  

Just like yourself PT When I used to sub for large firms on larger commercial contracts I would get £175 per day plus, but that was using my transport, my tools etc, not just having to turn in and do some work. 

We can back and forth this till you are older and i'm as old as you are now (a long way to go) and I the value and experience you have is a proverbial goldmine to people like me still learning but I think your business model is nowhere near suitable to someone like the OPs situation. 

To put it another way, in my particular boat, with full time employees if I were to work the van and have 1 employee with me doing £500 per day after my £50 expenses, pay my lad £200 well then he might as well be a full blown partner in the business as after all's said and done hes practically on the same dough as me.  

Many of us got here by working for others, and I did my time on the tools from £7 per hour to £8.50 through domestic and commercial companies and then I went it alone solo.  So at end of the day I assume my staff at some point will be ready to spread their wings and move on and with that in mind what added price can you put on the training, experience and insight of an industry that they will most likely venture in to for themselves finally?   

P.S. This is far too deep a topic for a Tuesday morning! It should be reserved for ? o'clock.

 

[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

Just to add in a brief note, a while back I read the musings of Alan Sugar in his book 'The Way I See It'  and in the book one of his key principles starting out in his early days selling home made shampoos etc was this.  The first two days of the week had to cover all the expenses, wages, materials etc, the last three days of the week was profits.    It's only with this in mind that I've been able to expand as well as we have been the past six months by sticking to some very simple principles and one of them is don't pay the staff the same money you pay yourself otherwise it becomes a Cooperative. 

 

[Part Timer]

Again, I have never said pay someone on the books £200 a day. You are using selective quotes in the wrong examples. In my opinion if the original OP wants to get good staff, someone that turns up and works well when they're under the weather, who doesn't get bladdered on a Sunday, like his mates do, who diligently does his work and then starts something else without having to be told, all of which, in my opinion, are criteria of good staff, then he will need to pay more than £10 an hour. If he wants staff that turn up when they can be bothered, that don't do the awkward window because they can't be ar$ed, who swing the lead at the first chance and who has to be checked up on all the time, costing him earning time, then pay them a wage that everyone else does. Then moan because they aren't very good simples really.

 

[Dave Shaw]

Pointless trying to argue a fact with an opinion as there will be no winner.


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[Daniel Perkins]

Interesting thread and one which I keep a close eye on, each to their own for me personally it's great to hear everyones opinions and different ways they run or want to run their business. At the moment I am a sole trader working under a business name (like many), my father and my uncle are also both sole traders, we work together and give each other a dig out but are financially separate... been doing this for decades but In the very near future both will retire and I will get a hell of alot of work coming my way hopefully. The dilemma for me is needing an extra body or two. I worry for the future, things like getting sick, injured, holidays etc and having no cover is a genuine concern of mine, I have no interest in making millions, just a good wage and being able to go on holiday without worry or having cover if I get sick. I have spoken to my accountant several times about this and each time she has said to me avoid employing, sub contract instead. She seems so adamant about it and has always given me great advice.

Obviously subbing sounds great if you could get an experienced, reliable windie, who is a good guy looking for some extra work but unfortunately there are alot of cowboys doing what we do who will let you down or try take advantage. I do alot of sub working for the big contract cleaning companies over here but good prices can be tough to get as they are trying to make their margin. My accountant reeled off a list of implications/tax/holiday pay etc that would would have to sort out if I employed. I have to make a decision at some point which way I want to go & I am still not sure to be honest.

From an ease point of view, subbing to someone who is kitted out, insured and knows the job and then giving them set amount of work/wage sounds so much more straight forward than employing but with an employee you have full control and don't have to worry about them trying to poach your work. It's a tricky situation that will have to be decided upon in the next 18 months or so. I'm so used to having that safety blanket of cover from father and uncle if I go away or something happens and you can trust your family. Ughhh stressing me out now thinking about the future as I like to be organised and prepared, thing is the work is handy enough to get, just deciding on what way to go about getting bodies to do it is another story.

 

[BlueClearChoice]

And how many of them did you pay more than £10/15 per hour?
Tbh I also think £10 is a little shy but only because I’m comparing it to what I earn. Thing is I’ve worked bloody hard to get to where I am and not just turned up like an employee. Also there are many on a lot less so why feel guilty when it’s the going rate? Ideally once my prices are were I want them to be I’d like him to be on
£100 a day for no more than 5 hours work so £20 per hour if you like. That’s my plan and I’m gettin their slowly. I’m there financially and just need to get my prices up to speed to cut our working hours down whilst still taking the same. Life’s all about making things easier from here on in.
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I’d work for you Dave £100 for 5 hours work. Sign me up please


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[D. W. S]

I'm looking for 2 experienced window cleaners with at least 2 yrs experience.. Hours 8 till 3.30 

£13 a hour Monday to Thursday 

 

[AW Services]

The work loads coming abit too much for just me and needing abit of a hand on the round. I’ve lined up a new round so I can employ someone else full time. How’s the best way about getting some full time staff? Looking to pay about 70£ a day (Manchester)

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Does that include the government pension scheme and insurance cover as an employee? 

 

[Part Timer]

Does that include the government pension scheme and insurance cover as an employee? 

The post is 2 years old

 

[Pjj]

I'm looking for 2 experienced window cleaners with at least 2 yrs experience.. Hours 8 till 3.30 

£13 a hour Monday to Thursday 

This post is 2 years old .