New to the Industry - Looking for Advice!

[Iron Giant]

19 hours ago, Owen.m said:

Hi all,

This is my first post on this forum and I just wish to say thank you in advance to anyone who can provide me with any information.

I am new to the window cleaning industry and currently going through the processes involved when starting up. I am based in the North London/Herts region.

I am extremely eager to get started but am currently somewhat lost in where to spend my start up capital. I have £5000 which I am looking to invest within my business in order to make sure I have all equipment needed to work efficiently and effectively in providing an excellent service to my customers.

From my research conducted I would like to purchase a van and install a water fed pole system. Does anyone have any recommendations on which van and pole systems would be best suited to my budget. From my research my thinking was an ex Royal Mail Peugeot Bipper and getting an X-Line System installed. (As seen below?)

Any other information you may have for a new starter would be highly highly appreciated.

Thanks Once again,

Owen

 You wouldn't get a pole in that van it will be to short to fit even a 18ft pole , unless it's out of the window like a jousting lance 

 

[mike007]

19 hours ago, Owen.m said:

Hi all,

This is my first post on this forum and I just wish to say thank you in advance to anyone who can provide me with any information.

I am new to the window cleaning industry and currently going through the processes involved when starting up. I am based in the North London/Herts region.

I am extremely eager to get started but am currently somewhat lost in where to spend my start up capital. I have £5000 which I am looking to invest within my business in order to make sure I have all equipment needed to work efficiently and effectively in providing an excellent service to my customers.

From my research conducted I would like to purchase a van and install a water fed pole system. Does anyone have any recommendations on which van and pole systems would be best suited to my budget. From my research my thinking was an ex Royal Mail Peugeot Bipper and getting an X-Line System installed. (As seen below?)

Any other information you may have for a new starter would be highly highly appreciated.

Thanks Once again,

Owen

You sure you want to spend £5k straight off....you got customers already? experience already?, the mindset already?. Posted reply to another topic started by a newbie where I mentioned lots of people (newbies) read stuff on here about the pluses of this career, and somehow gloss over the negatives!!.

It is not for everyone, lots pack up or fail, it is not always the beer token mob with a bucket and ladder that stop coming to customers, there is wfp guys too. Be wary is my advice

 

[P4dstar]

These top of the range systems that some folk get gooey eyed about, seem to have far more issues than a more basic system which in essence is the same, more likely over-complicated somehow or fitted by someone somewhat incompetent, I personally don't believe a pretty system with no showing wires warrants an extra 2k plus over a more basic system. 

All fur coat and no knickers springs to mind with some folk, they don't make anyone a better or even half decent windy over someone else ? ?

Don't say that, I fancy myself a nice 4k Grippa system ?

 You wouldn't get a pole in that van it will be to short to fit even a 18ft pole , unless it's out of the window like a jousting lance 

My first van had some pipe holders on the roof rack. I sold them on eBay and a windy in a bipper turned up to collect them. That was the only way of carrying the poles. Seems a ball ache to me, having to take the brushes off every time you put the pole away.

 

[Owen.m]

Window cleaning van systems ,  search that on eBay you’ll find load of vans ready for work , 

Thank you, I never realised this was an option. Its definitely something im going to keep tabs on.

Unless you have no room to store a tank at home you don't need a van system. It is a more expensive, time consuming and lowers your vans payload.

Thanks for the feedback. Unfortunately I live in a flat so storage is an issue for me.

If carrying ladders, always carry spare ladder clamps or rope!!!!

I learned this lesson today, when i was 12 miles from home in the middle of nowhere, cleaning a farmhouse and 1 of mine broke!!!

12 miles home on horrible country roads with front end of ladder held on by my boot laces ????

Hahaha sorry for laughing but that seems like an experience to say the least! That is something I can definetly see happening to me so i will prepare for that now lol. Ingenious idea to use the shoelaces by the way.

... and don't buy an ex Royal Mail van.

I haven't seen one that has been looked after as they get a different driver each day. They are all bashed and mostly driven by posties who don't care because no one holds them responsible for any damage they cause.

Personally, I believe a Blipper is too small, but then I don't live and work in London.

Thanks for this. The posties not caring for the vans does make sense, thinking about it i have witnessed this first hand. From this post and the others below I am definitely looking at something bigger than a Bipper now!

 

[Owen.m]

How you doing mate welcome! 

I'm only about 4 months in so far so this is the disclaimer for some of the older hands but heres my two cents... 

I'm sitting at earning between 6-£800 per month working part time, and I advice off the bat would be dont invest 5k strait away! Not sure if you've done window cleaning before but it might not be for you few months in. Also if your not buying a round, that's alot of a systerm with no customers to pay for it. 

I have a citron berlingo with a backpack system and carry about 350l of pure water and suits me fine for the minute...yes I'll have to upgrade in the next 12 months for sure as I'm growing every day but I've done it step by step to avoid being in the hole financially. By all means get your van but save your money for now and focus on tapping doors and advertising. Hope this dosent come across as negative because it's not meant that way in the slightest! This jobs wicked best kept secret in my mind just build up to a maxed out systerm ?? 

Thanks, its nice to hear from someone who is new to the industry to get there two cents. Would it be possible for you to link me the backpack system you use? & Not negative at all mate, Its great to hear someone who is new to the scene really enjoying the work as well.

Pure freedom systems are very good, long way for you though. They are in Grimsby. 

Thanks mate heard good things about them, will defo check their site out

 

[Owen.m]

In my opinion depending how much work you want to do per day you arnt going to get a very big tank in a bipper van most sole traders working up to 8 hours a day will have something like a renault traffic or similar sized van with a 500-650 ltr tank , I know not all will agree with this but it’s what I found when I started out once I was established I was using a full tank per day , Ime glad that I bought a 650 ltr system as if future proofed my buisness , has I gone smaller I would have had to change everything it saved me money long term , I now have three vans two with 650 ltr systems and one with a 1000 ltr . There is a guy on this forum who lives near me he has only been going a few months and all ready his tank and van are two small and he’s looking to change it all ready , Ime not saying go stupid with some huge van , but just think where you want to be with window cleaning in a couple of years and I doubt that the bipper will fulfill your needs .

As for systems I would try and buy second hand if you are starting out on a low budget something like an ionics systems pro 5 , or if you can find one a Grippatank system they di come up quite cheaply ( ionics systems ) I have them in all my vans , I have altered the filtration a bit . Or if you are ok at diy build your own system , however this will not give you the crash protection of a professional system . 

Thank you for sharing this, I found this particularly helpful. Future proofing the business is something I have looked at but perhaps not in quite as much detail as I should be. Thanks also for sharing detail on the systems that too was helpful. & I fancy myself with a bit of DIY but realistically this is probably beyond me lol

I'm just about to go into my 3rd month so my experience is very limited in comparison to most others. I work and live in Essex and a lot of my customers live in roads where parking is sometimes an issue, so I understand the logic with a small van. However, you may possibly out grow it relatively quickly, I have a Peugeot Partner and although easy to park it does have a larger payload and load space. I actually looked at a Bipper and now really pleased I went for a slightly larger van. I'm currently using a backpack system and similar to other comments, I will probably upgrade to a van system in the future. I would recommend looking at Gardiners for a pole, I purchased an slx22 and it's been really good, although I don't have anything to compare it with I have no complaints. Good luck.

Thanks for the feedback. The general consensus im getting is to go for the bigger van and believe thats what im likely to do now. Thanks for the recommendation on the pole as well, I am going to check it out.

 

[Owen.m]

 That's spot on advise, when I started WFP from the only way I knew trad, and I hadn't done that for about 25 years as I left the industry and WFP wasn't around in the 80s I was gunning for a 300lts system and smaller van, thank Christ I didn't as within 6 months of starting I would have been out of water by lunch time. The biggest mistake I made was leaving the best job I had and become a printer for the next 25 years. 12 years back in the game wish I never left.    

Thanks for re-affirming the advice on the bigger van. I was also able to take inspiration from this and how much you love the game. 

Hi Owen, I'm in Enfield. Check https://www.grippatank.co.uk/ 1hour drive from N. London.

Cheers mate, nice to hear from someone not far from me!

I would recommend you make your own DIY system. It may seem daunting but the pros far outweigh the cons. If you're not a DIY guy don't worry, there really isn't that much involved. I'm no DIY expert but I know my system inside and out and if something breaks I can replace it personally, I wouldn't want to drive to the manufacturer every time there was an issue.

If you make a DIY system first and then purchase a custom built system later it won't cost you any more in the long run. Just to explain this logic, in the first year you'll have a lot of expenses. This late into the tax year (assuming you end your year in April like most people) you may struggle to turnover much more than the expense of all your equipment before even considering a top of the range system. With this in mind whatever you spend you aren't going to have a tax bill for this financial year. Run the second year upgrading some of your equipment and see where you are in Feb/March, if you've done well then buy a custom system then and sell the old one off (thus reducing the tax bill for year 2). If your earnings are looking moderate wait until the beginning of tax year 3 to invest in a top of the range system and offset the cost in that tax year.

Thanks mate this is some solid info. This is my first solo business venture and im still trying to rap my head around all the tax s***. It is very confusing haha. Do you have any more info on how to get started with the building of my own system?

 

[Owen.m]

You sure you want to spend £5k straight off....you got customers already? experience already?, the mindset already?. Posted reply to another topic started by a newbie where I mentioned lots of people (newbies) read stuff on here about the pluses of this career, and somehow gloss over the negatives!!.

It is not for everyone, lots pack up or fail, it is not always the beer token mob with a bucket and ladder that stop coming to customers, there is wfp guys too. Be wary is my advice

Thanks for the mentality check Mike, this is something I have put A LOT of thought into and am 100% committed to making work. My mentality is correct and despite a lack of customer and experience these are not something I cannot obtain without starting.

 

[spruce]

Thanks for re-affirming the advice on the bigger van. I was also able to take inspiration from this and how much you love the game. 

Cheers mate, nice to hear from someone not far from me!

A lot of these suppliers will sell components so you can fit them yourself.

One thing you have to watch for is buying a complete kit from some suppliers. For example, I would have no problem buying and fitting or have fitted a Purefreedom system by PF in Grimsby. But I wouldn't buy the poles they supply as I prefer to buy them from Gardiners.

GrippaTank also supply Gardiner poles.

A number of windies have had PF fit their tanks tanks in the North East. They may not be the most classy looking Wyedale tanks when compared to the more expensive Grippa/Ionics/Xline systems but they do the job. The windies I know have prepared the cargo bay area ahead of time; ie painted it with ProtectaKote or similar and then driven the van down to Grimsby for them to fit the system on appointment.

 

[Part Timer]

Thanks for the feedback. Unfortunately I live in a flat so storage is an issue for me.

Not trying to patronise but it's a very nice change for someone to come on this site asking for advice and then acknowledging each reply.

If you haven't got any storage then it might, initially, be worth you having a look at buying your water in.

 

[Suhrly]

Also I believe @Part Timer has a PF system he's very happy with. 

I also have a Pure Freedom system I've been extremely happy with upto now. This is why I'm eager to see what @Pjj has to say. 

A lot of these suppliers will sell components so you can fit them yourself.

One thing you have to watch for is buying a complete kit from some suppliers. For example, I would have no problem buying and fitting or have fitted a Purefreedom system by PF in Grimsby. But I wouldn't buy the poles they supply as I prefer to buy them from Gardiners.

GrippaTank also supply Gardiner poles.

A number of windies have had PF fit their tanks tanks in the North East. They may not be the most classy looking Wyedale tanks when compared to the more expensive Grippa/Ionics/Xline systems but they do the job. The windies I know have prepared the cargo bay area ahead of time; ie painted it with ProtectaKote or similar and then driven the van down to Grimsby for them to fit the system on appointment.

Spot on this @spruce My Pure Freedom system may not look as good and as fancy as the other companies you mentioned but it's PRACTICAL. No fancy covers in the way etc etc. And yes, if you do go with PF, once arranged they send you a tin of ProtecaKote a week before so you can lay down 2 coats before you take the van down to them. 

This is my set up, the first two images in their gallery. (Yellow van) They put my van on their website right after the installation was done as they like the yellow theme ?

https://purefreedom.co.uk/product-category/resin/van-systems-gallery/

 

[Iron Giant]

Don't say that, I fancy myself a nice 4k Grippa system ?

As I was saying....................all fur coat and no knickers ?

 

[ks789]

If carrying ladders, always carry spare ladder clamps or rope!!!!

I learned this lesson today, when i was 12 miles from home in the middle of nowhere, cleaning a farmhouse and 1 of mine broke!!!

12 miles home on horrible country roads with front end of ladder held on by my boot laces ????

 Yes a few times ive driven off where ive put ladder on roof and the clamps are sat on roof too or in back of van. Luckily I heard something and stopped and put clamps on, but once the ladder came flying off on a corner. very luckily, it was in the sticks and just scared a rabbit or the odd pheasant. A tip for anyone who might do this, now, I leave the clamps on my drivers seat, so theres no way of forgetting.?? 

 

[HWCS]

 Yes a few times ive driven off where ive put ladder on roof and the clamps are sat on roof too or in back of van. Luckily I heard something and stopped and put clamps on, but once the ladder came flying off on a corner. very luckily, it was in the sticks and just scared a rabbit or the odd pheasant. A tip for anyone who might do this, now, I leave the clamps on my drivers seat, so theres no way of forgetting.?? 

Done this b4 and the bonnett of the car carries the scars

 

[spruce]

I also have a Pure Freedom system I've been extremely happy with upto now. This is why I'm eager to see what @Pjj has to say. 

Spot on this @spruce My Pure Freedom system may not look as good and as fancy as the other companies you mentioned but it's PRACTICAL. No fancy covers in the way etc etc. And yes, if you do go with PF, once arranged they send you a tin of ProtecaKote a week before so you can lay down 2 coats before you take the van down to them. 

This is my set up, the first two images in their gallery. (Yellow van) They put my van on their website right after the installation was done as they like the yellow theme ?

https://purefreedom.co.uk/product-category/resin/van-systems-gallery/

I honestly quite like the Purefreedom setups. The workmanship is good quality and they do look very professional.

I do like the yellow of your van and the grey colour of the system you have chosen. Very nice.

 

[P4dstar]

Thanks for re-affirming the advice on the bigger van. I was also able to take inspiration from this and how much you love the game. 

Cheers mate, nice to hear from someone not far from me!

Thanks mate this is some solid info. This is my first solo business venture and im still trying to rap my head around all the tax s***. It is very confusing haha. Do you have any more info on how to get started with the building of my own system?

There are literally hundreds of videos on YouTube etc for DIY window cleaning set ups, every single one is different. Well worth investing a few hours watching into. Every set up is different, once you have an idea what sort of thing you like the look of it would probably be easier to guide you on that but if it’s any help this is one of my favourites...

 

[Pjj]

I also have a Pure Freedom system I've been extremely happy with upto now. This is why I'm eager to see what @Pjj has to say. 

Spot on this @spruce My Pure Freedom system may not look as good and as fancy as the other companies you mentioned but it's PRACTICAL. No fancy covers in the way etc etc. And yes, if you do go with PF, once arranged they send you a tin of ProtecaKote a week before so you can lay down 2 coats before you take the van down to them. 

This is my set up, the first two images in their gallery. (Yellow van) They put my van on their website right after the installation was done as they like the yellow theme ?

https://purefreedom.co.uk/product-category/resin/van-systems-gallery/

Looks a nice set up 

 

[ks789]

 You wouldn't get a pole in that van it will be to short to fit even a 18ft pole , unless it's out of the window like a jousting lance 

 How about a 500 litre tank etc in a bedford rascal? ive heard there like the Tardis?

 

[Suhrly]

 How about a 500 litre tank etc in a bedford rascal? ive heard there like the Tardis?

lol I would LOVE to see that ? it would probably roll if you went round a corner too quick

Looks a nice set up 

The hose is a little bit dirtier now ?

 

[ks789]

lol I would LOVE to see that ? it would probably roll if you went round a corner too quick

my mate used to drive one, not windows tho, and it handled something terrible. Always though we were gonna die.

 

[Suhrly]

my mate used to drive one, not windows tho, and it handled something terrible. Always though we were gonna die.

Hey they're not called Rascals for nothing ?