PUMP PROBLEM!!!!!!!

[dazmond]

i had an airlock this morning....i virtually drained my tank on friday evening ready for my vans MOT yesterday.....my usual method didnt work(connecting and disconnecting my hose reel while pump on 99)....after 10 mins of faffing about(and getting drenched as it was pouring down at 830 this morning!)i got in my van and braked hard a few times..THAT DID THE TRICK!?

 

[Hoops]

Hi lads,

Lately my pump is taking 10-15 minutes at the beginning of the day to get going. She was being a pain the other day and whenever we have these kinds of issues we just recalibrate and usually that sorts them. I know the cold weather can cause them to play up too.

the van it’s playing up in is used only once or twice a week. Once she gets going she is fine for the rest of the day.

Any of you have any quick fixes or similar problems? 

 

[Part Timer]

Not had that problem but sounds like the classic air lock.

 

[Robt100]

Where is the pump located in reference to the tank? (top, bottom, middle) as Part Timer says, sounds like an air lock issue.

 

[doug atkinson]

If the pumps is more than 3 years old and is problematic just replace it. The time you loose and money lost it would pay for a new pump in no time.

 

[Martyn]

@Hoops If you would like another pair of eyes to look at the problem just give us a call.

I also think it sounds like air in the system.

 

[spruce]

Hi lads,

Lately my pump is taking 10-15 minutes at the beginning of the day to get going. She was being a pain the other day and whenever we have these kinds of issues we just recalibrate and usually that sorts them. I know the cold weather can cause them to play up too.

the van it’s playing up in is used only once or twice a week. Once she gets going she is fine for the rest of the day.

Any of you have any quick fixes or similar problems? 

We often go straight to the controller hoping to sort the problem out with recalibration, and often that solves the problem if it is a recalibration issue.

But we also forget to consider the battery itself. In cold weather a battery performs less efficiently loosing as much as 20% at freezing temperatures. The older and well worn the battery is the greater this efficiency difference.

Is it me, but it seems that we only get complaints about poorly performing pumps in winter when the weather turns very cold.

I was watching this this morning and thought about your post.

 

[Hoops]

50 minutes ago, spruce said:

We often go straight to the controller hoping to sort the problem out with recalibration, and often that solves the problem if it is a recalibration issue.

But we also forget to consider the battery itself. In cold weather a battery performs less efficiently loosing as much as 20% at freezing temperatures. The older and well worn the battery is the greater this efficiency difference.

Is it me, but it seems that we only get complaints about poorly performing pumps in winter when the weather turns very cold.

I was watching this this morning and thought about your post.

Very interesting! Could be onto something there!? 

 

[steve garwood]

7 hours ago, spruce said:

We often go straight to the controller hoping to sort the problem out with recalibration, and often that solves the problem if it is a recalibration issue.

But we also forget to consider the battery itself. In cold weather a battery performs less efficiently loosing as much as 20% at freezing temperatures. The older and well worn the battery is the greater this efficiency difference.

Is it me, but it seems that we only get complaints about poorly performing pumps in winter when the weather turns very cold.

I was watching this this morning and thought about your post.

Managed 4 minutes before I lost the will to live ?

 

[Boab McK]

Guys ended up buying new pump but no water seems to be passing through it at all, no water in filter, pump sounds a bit loud and also I can hear like gurgling from the tank, any ideas ?

 

[ched999uk]

The main problem is the cost of LiIon or LiFePO4 batteries. They are about 10 times the cost of a standard lead acid - Maybe if you doubled up on lead acid to give you a better comparison to LiIon so maybe 5 x the cost. Do they come with a 10 year warranty?  If the manufacturers were that sure they were great then why do many only offer 3 year warranty?

While Lithium battery technology has it's uses I'm not sure the cost is low enough yet for Windy use. We are used to carrying lots of weight so Lithium batteries weight saving isn't that critical. They don't like low temps, so that doesn't help us in winter. If you fully discharge by accident then that's it very very difficult to recover any useable capacity!!!

I just destroyed 8 little lipos because I left them connected to the charger for 2 weeks, charger was switched off at mains but it pulled the batteries down to less than 0.5v per cell - they are destroyed!!! Good job they are only about £40 worth! I would be so so gutted to destroy a £1000 battery by accident!!!!

OK so lead acids don't like 100% discharge you will probably get back a decent capacity not what you had but a reasonable amount.

 

[ched999uk]

Guys ended up buying new pump but no water seems to be passing through it at all, no water in filter, pump sounds a bit loud and also I can hear like gurgling from the tank, any ideas ?

If you disconnect the pipe as close to tank as possible do you get any water out? Sounds like tank outlet is blocked or you have an air leak. Is it a newish tank as they can have lots of waste plastic bits in from manufacture which can clog things up.

Start at tank and work towards pump. Even if you think something is OK check it don't assume!!! 

 

[Boab McK]

If you disconnect the pipe as close to tank as possible do you get any water out? Sounds like tank outlet is blocked or you have an air leak. Is it a newish tank as they can have lots of waste plastic bits in from manufacture which can clog things up.

Start at tank and work towards pump. Even if you think something is OK check it don't assume!!! 

I can't even suck any water through, I was at it for ages 

 

[ched999uk]

I can't even suck any water through, I was at it for ages 

If sucking isn't working you have to start disconnecting things.

You have to start at the tank outlet and work towards pump. The first pipe that is connected to the outlet, have you a tap? If so then disconnect after tap, open tap, do you get water? If not then the issue is between tap and tank outlet. Hopefully your tank isn't full as you might need to drain to find issue. Can you see the tank outlet from inside the tank? If so maybe a bent coat hanger will allow you to see if inside of inlet is blocked? Start at tank and when you get water you know it's after that part where the problem is.

Hope that gives you some clues?

 

[Davy G]

Another thing that might be worth trying, after all the pipes and joints have been tested if there's still no water coming through, is:

Disconnect the hose going into the reel raise the hoze end up higher than the rest of the water system and pour some water into the open end to fill the system back along. Switch the pump on slowly to try and encourage the start of a pumped flow. If it doesn't work try different flow settings. If it does work turn the flow down quite low and connect back to reel with the water still pumping. If it has worked, turn the flow up to purge any remaining air. Finally set the flow and calibration to the
levels you're happy with.

Good luck. Please let us know how it all goes.

 

[spruce]

The main problem is the cost of LiIon or LiFePO4 batteries. They are about 10 times the cost of a standard lead acid - Maybe if you doubled up on lead acid to give you a better comparison to LiIon so maybe 5 x the cost. Do they come with a 10 year warranty?  If the manufacturers were that sure they were great then why do many only offer 3 year warranty?

While Lithium battery technology has it's uses I'm not sure the cost is low enough yet for Windy use. We are used to carrying lots of weight so Lithium batteries weight saving isn't that critical. They don't like low temps, so that doesn't help us in winter. If you fully discharge by accident then that's it very very difficult to recover any useable capacity!!!

I just destroyed 8 little lipos because I left them connected to the charger for 2 weeks, charger was switched off at mains but it pulled the batteries down to less than 0.5v per cell - they are destroyed!!! Good job they are only about £40 worth! I would be so so gutted to destroy a £1000 battery by accident!!!!

OK so lead acids don't like 100% discharge you will probably get back a decent capacity not what you had but a reasonable amount.

I definitely agree with you - lithium isn't for window cleaners due to its cost and cold weather useage.

What I thought about was how the same lead acid battery reacts differently depending on the temperature. In our vans that temperature is always going to be just above freezing - never toasty.

If o/p's battery is in a poor condition due to age or has a low charge then that battery isn't going to perform well. Like me, that battery may need a bit of coaxing to wake up. ?

 

[Iron Giant]

Guys ended up buying new pump but no water seems to be passing through it at all, no water in filter, pump sounds a bit loud and also I can hear like gurgling from the tank, any ideas ?

Have you got the pump set up correctly and enough water in the tank with the tank outlet tap open.

The pump will need priming, even having a full tank of water and going for a quick drive may sort the issue or may not, if you have air in the system after the refit, then you will need to disconnect the hose from the hose reel run the pump and suck on the hose to create a vacuum and the water should come through in 2 seconds

 

[Boab McK]

Have you got the pump set up correctly and enough water in the tank with the tank outlet tap open.

The pump will need priming, even having a full tank of water and going for a quick drive may sort the issue or may not, if you have air in the system after the refit, then you will need to disconnect the hose from the hose reel run the pump and suck on the hose to create a vacuum and the water should come through in 2 seconds

Guys I had the pump inlet and outlet wrong way round haha??‍, water is flowing fine now till I try to connect outlet to reel, it comes up PS on controller?

 

[Davy G]

Guys I had the pump inlet and outlet wrong way round haha??‍, water is flowing fine now till I try to connect outlet to reel, it comes up PS on controller?

Haha! Thanks for the update. Hopefully now it's just a matter of setting the flow and calibration. A reduction in the calibration should sort the PS I think. You might need to play around with the settings till you get them to suit you.

 

[Boab McK]

Also think reel hose has ice inside, heard like a cracking noise when I was pulling it fully out, it's been very cold here in Scotland, got heaters on now so hopefully that will thaw it out 

 

[RavashingRichie]

Ps meens pressure switch ,its using the pumps pressure switch instead of the controller , it’s fine and will work but you should lower the calibration until de is displayed this meens dead end detection