Should I be concerned?

[NewGuy]

I carry out an awful lot of one off cleans for estate agents, those moving house and retail

The way I see it is it's all money coming in to pay the bills.

Cheers, I wouldn't mind doing one-offs as long as I know they are one-offs and then I can double my rate ?

I have just started doing the private houses of a family that have, literally, hundreds of properties, rumoured to have over 600.

While we were quoting a new one, the owners son, we overheard him talking about getting us to do all of the end of tenancy cleans ?

Fingers crossed for you - potentially a lucrative scenario ?

 

[Part Timer]

Fingers crossed for you - potentially a lucrative scenario ?

Don't actually know if I want them or not. All of their personal houses are well priced and the payment is same day or early next day but the commitment might be too much considering my travelling work.

I suppose it might be a nice problem to have.

 

[NewGuy]

Yes, I understand what you mean about the commitment and the potential impact on your existing work.  I suspect the other issues are that the work wouldn't be grouped into convenient slots and would require a scattergun approach.

 

[Part Timer]

Yes, I understand what you mean about the commitment and the potential impact on your existing work.  I suspect the other issues are that the work wouldn't be grouped into convenient slots and would require a scattergun approach.

I'd have to have a 2 week notice period but I don't know turnaround time, of tenants, and how long the average tenancy is. Would imagine they will be in a very poor condition though.

We were doing the owners sisters house and she was telling us she was getting a balcony built on the back of her very big house. Behind hers there's an even bigger house so when I mentioned planning permission might be awkward as it will be overlooking the house behind she replied we've bought it and her daughter is moving in. How the other half live.

 

[cleaniac]

The thing is, when you are relatively new to this game. It's all exciting, getting customers, having people recommend you, doing one-offs getting grubby properties clean. You know running a social media site, loads of followers with before and after pics, spending money on new kit, uniforms, logo branding and all that. And that's great, because it is fun and exciting, especially if you have gone from one job that's  vastly different. And I know what it's like as I have been there too, I used to work in the city of London. 

But once you have shining  for 10, 20 or 30 years (50 for Daz ?). You get to know all the warning signs, time wasters, dross jobs and you start to realise those so called new jobs you got that you once thought were really good ones, are actually the ones established window cleaners do not want. 

You start to understand that it's all about making as much money as possible, as profitable as possible, in the shortest time if you want to build real long term wealth. You will understand that jobs that take a lot of your time, and require vast investment will taper off as you find high profit easy jobs. 

The downside is it can get a bit tedious, but recently I have realised how lucky I am with this covid thing, having an established business that needs little or no input now other than me turning up on the dates I give and wang my pole about ? it's the easiest job in the world.

 

[Pjj]

The thing is, when you are relatively new to this game. It's all exciting, getting customers, having people recommend you, doing one-offs getting grubby properties clean. You know running a social media site, loads of followers with before and after pics, spending money on new kit, uniforms, logo branding and all that. And that's great, because it is fun and exciting, especially if you have gone from one job that's  vastly different. And I know what it's like as I have been there too, I used to work in the city of London. 

But once you have shining  for 10, 20 or 30 years (50 for Daz ?). You get to know all the warning signs, time wasters, dross jobs and you start to realise those so called new jobs you got that you once thought were really good ones, are actually the ones established window cleaners do not want. 

You start to understand that it's all about making as much money as possible, as profitable as possible, in the shortest time if you want to build real long term wealth. You will understand that jobs that take a lot of your time, and require vast investment will taper off as you find high profit easy jobs. 

The downside is it can get a bit tedious, but recently I have realised how lucky I am with this covid thing, having an established business that needs little or no input now other than me turning up on the dates I give and wang my pole about ? it's the easiest job in the world.

Excellent post mark I couldn’t agree more , very wise and true words ?

 

[swc1]

The thing is, when you are relatively new to this game. It's all exciting, getting customers, having people recommend you, doing one-offs getting grubby properties clean. You know running a social media site, loads of followers with before and after pics, spending money on new kit, uniforms, logo branding and all that. And that's great, because it is fun and exciting, especially if you have gone from one job that's  vastly different. And I know what it's like as I have been there too, I used to work in the city of London. 

But once you have shining  for 10, 20 or 30 years (50 for Daz ?). You get to know all the warning signs, time wasters, dross jobs and you start to realise those so called new jobs you got that you once thought were really good ones, are actually the ones established window cleaners do not want. 

You start to understand that it's all about making as much money as possible, as profitable as possible, in the shortest time if you want to build real long term wealth. You will understand that jobs that take a lot of your time, and require vast investment will taper off as you find high profit easy jobs. 

The downside is it can get a bit tedious, but recently I have realised how lucky I am with this covid thing, having an established business that needs little or no input now other than me turning up on the dates I give and wang my pole about ? it's the easiest job in the world.

Great post!

 

[dazmond]

The thing is, when you are relatively new to this game. It's all exciting, getting customers, having people recommend you, doing one-offs getting grubby properties clean. You know running a social media site, loads of followers with before and after pics, spending money on new kit, uniforms, logo branding and all that. And that's great, because it is fun and exciting, especially if you have gone from one job that's  vastly different. And I know what it's like as I have been there too, I used to work in the city of London. 

But once you have shining  for 10, 20 or 30 years (50 for Daz ?). You get to know all the warning signs, time wasters, dross jobs and you start to realise those so called new jobs you got that you once thought were really good ones, are actually the ones established window cleaners do not want. 

You start to understand that it's all about making as much money as possible, as profitable as possible, in the shortest time if you want to build real long term wealth. You will understand that jobs that take a lot of your time, and require vast investment will taper off as you find high profit easy jobs. 

The downside is it can get a bit tedious, but recently I have realised how lucky I am with this covid thing, having an established business that needs little or no input now other than me turning up on the dates I give and wang my pole about ? it's the easiest job in the world.

im thinking of selling up and getting into the engineering business as its a lot more profitable,lower overheads and short working hours.....

 

[cleaniac]

im thinking of selling up and getting into the engineering business as its a lot more profitable,lower overheads and short working hours.....

Yeah....RIGHT.

???

If you don't mind dealing with purchase managers who haven't got a clue how minimum order pricing works, promise an order of 2000 and agree a price, then cancel 1500 halfway through the job and expect to get it at the same unit price.

Or dealing with university graduates fresh with engineering degrees who can't grasp correct speeds and feeds, realistic tolerances, correct shamfers or even send you a drawing that makes sense. We even had one university grad not grasp the concept of fixtures, we often have to go back to the drawing board before we even set any tools in the chucks. 

Then there is the cost of tooling, materials, breakage..(there is a lot of breakage, taps breaking, chuck crashes, materials not being as specified...etc etc.

Then there's pulling a weekender, because it's taken a week to sort out all the stuff the company should have gotten RIGHT to start with, but you promised a new job next week, and it's paid in full so here's  another Friday night to Monday morning jobbie coming up, let's hope we don't break any taps or milling heads eh??

It's a joke mate..?

 

[NewGuy]

Right, to bring this thread to a conclusion.

I cleaned the windows of this bungalow today.  It was the first clean and they were a little dirty, especially the many skylights.  It took me just under an hour and I charged £40 as a regular clean (not first clean rate).

The Lady of the Manor was extremely happy with my work and confirmed she wishes to sign up for a 6 weekly.  However, my conscience couldn't allow myself to charge £40 for a regular clean as I think I can get the time down to around 35 minutes eventually so I told her I will drop my price for future cleans to £35.  

I do have work in the same area so it will tie in nicely with my other jobs.

 

[AW Services]

The thing is, when you are relatively new to this game. It's all exciting, getting customers, having people recommend you, doing one-offs getting grubby properties clean. You know running a social media site, loads of followers with before and after pics, spending money on new kit, uniforms, logo branding and all that. And that's great, because it is fun and exciting, especially if you have gone from one job that's  vastly different. And I know what it's like as I have been there too, I used to work in the city of London. 

But once you have shining  for 10, 20 or 30 years (50 for Daz ?). You get to know all the warning signs, time wasters, dross jobs and you start to realise those so called new jobs you got that you once thought were really good ones, are actually the ones established window cleaners do not want. 

You start to understand that it's all about making as much money as possible, as profitable as possible, in the shortest time if you want to build real long term wealth. You will understand that jobs that take a lot of your time, and require vast investment will taper off as you find high profit easy jobs. 

The downside is it can get a bit tedious, but recently I have realised how lucky I am with this covid thing, having an established business that needs little or no input now other than me turning up on the dates I give and wang my pole about ? it's the easiest job in the world.

Awesome realistic post. Have a great weekend 

 

[cleaniac]

Right, to bring this thread to a conclusion.

I cleaned the windows of this bungalow today.  It was the first clean and they were a little dirty, especially the many skylights.  It took me just under an hour and I charged £40 as a regular clean (not first clean rate).

The Lady of the Manor was extremely happy with my work and confirmed she wishes to sign up for a 6 weekly.  However, my conscience couldn't allow myself to charge £40 for a regular clean as I think I can get the time down to around 35 minutes eventually so I told her I will drop my price for future cleans to £35.  

I do have work in the same area so it will tie in nicely with my other jobs.

That's very noble, but this shows lack of confidence in your market position.

As you gain experience you will realise that capitalism is all about the market driving the price, not the price driving the market.

She was very happy with the job, you should have left the price as it was, especially if she has indicated that to you so openly at the existing price.

What you have done is devalue your market share for no reason. It makes no sense. You have also now openly showed your customers that your not 100% confident in your value, and she will communicate that with others that your willing and ready to drop your price.

Whilst it is noble what you have done, nobility won't bring you prosperity.

It's a fine balance, but never drop your prices because you feel it's the right thing to do. 

Only change or lower your price if the market demands that change. 

So next time your tempted to be 'nice' and do the same, stop yourself and keep it the same price, make a note of the customers you were kinder to and the ones you stuck to your guns on, you will find the latter ones will stay with you the longest. 

But well done, and like I said that's very noble, but your not in this game for nobility, your in this game to put bread on the table, and one day build long term wealth.

 

[NewGuy]

That's very noble, but this shows lack of confidence in your market position.

As you gain experience you will realise that capitalism is all about the market driving the price, not the price driving the market.

She was very happy with the job, you should have left the price as it was, especially if she has indicated that to you so openly at the existing price.

What you have done is devalue your market share for no reason. It makes no sense. You have also now openly showed your customers that your not 100% confident in your value, and she will communicate that with others that your willing and ready to drop your price.

Whilst it is noble what you have done, nobility won't bring you prosperity.

It's a fine balance, but never drop your prices because you feel it's the right thing to do. 

Only change or lower your price if the market demands that change. 

So next time your tempted to be 'nice' and do the same, stop yourself and keep it the same price, make a note of the customers you were kinder to and the ones you stuck to your guns on, you will find the latter ones will stay with you the longest. 

But well done, and like I said that's very noble, but your not in this game for nobility, your in this game to put bread on the table, and one day build long term wealth.

I appreciate what you're saying. But there's no such thing as "market rate" for window cleaners.  There's a huge disparity across the country in terms of pricing, even within the same street.  There is no wrong or right when pricing up jobs but what I do not want to do, is to rip people off.  I am simply not willing to charge £40 for what will eventually prove to be a 30 minute job just to clean windows.  

I want to be fair to my customers - this will aid in customer retention.  I have picked up so many jobs over the past year from customers who decided their existing window cleaners were charging too much.  I don't want to lose customers because I'm too expensive.  I want them to be happy and pay what is fair.  I'm not cheap (although a couple have said I am but I've remedied those prices already) but I am not a rip-off merchant either.  I have picked up jobs that I charge at £25-£30 that takes no more than 30 minutes max.  They were paying around £45 with their previous window cleaners.  There are people out there being ripped off and they will end up losing customers because of this.

I'm not in this game to build long-term wealth by fleecing people, and to be honest, charging £40+ to clean windows that takes no longer than 30 minutes is fleecing people.  There are TV programmes that document rip-off Britain - we don't want window cleaners to feature on there.

Maybe I have the wrong mind-set.  Maybe I'm not cut out to be a successful window cleaner because of my pricing.  All I want, is to bring in an income of around £40-50k and I can do this by charging for work based on my £40 per hour rate.  That's all I need.

Therefore, with all due respect, I do not agree with you. ?

 

[Iron Giant]

I appreciate what you're saying. But there's no such thing as "market rate" for window cleaners.  There's a huge disparity across the country in terms of pricing, even within the same street.  There is no wrong or right when pricing up jobs but what I do not want to do, is to rip people off.  I am simply not willing to charge £40 for what will eventually prove to be a 30 minute job just to clean windows.  

I want to be fair to my customers - this will aid in customer retention.  I have picked up so many jobs over the past year from customers who decided their existing window cleaners were charging too much.  I don't want to lose customers because I'm too expensive.  I want them to be happy and pay what is fair.  I'm not cheap (although a couple have said I am but I've remedied those prices already) but I am not a rip-off merchant either.  I have picked up jobs that I charge at £25-£30 that takes no more than 30 minutes max.  They were paying around £45 with their previous window cleaners.  There are people out there being ripped off and they will end up losing customers because of this.

I'm not in this game to build long-term wealth by fleecing people, and to be honest, charging £40+ to clean windows that takes no longer than 30 minutes is fleecing people.  There are TV programmes that document rip-off Britain - we don't want window cleaners to feature on there.

Maybe I have the wrong mind-set.  Maybe I'm not cut out to be a successful window cleaner because of my pricing.  All I want, is to bring in an income of around £40-50k and I can do this by charging for work based on my £40 per hour rate.  That's all I need.

Therefore, with all due respect, I do not agree with you. ?

I priced a couple of bungalows a few weeks back at £25 & £30 on 8 weekly they will most likely with me taking my time a little more than I might an hour to do the two as they are next door to each other, I feel I may have gone in a bit high but I got them and price will stay the same despite some apprehension on whether I'll retain them, got another job at £25 again priced high but it's very easy to clean, 

People jumping ship because there last window cleaner was too expensive, I get this every once in a while, people drop me saying I'm too expensive like I am taking their eyes out go with someone maybe a £1 cheaper and then I drive past weeks later and they have brand new cars on the drive ?

 

[Part Timer]

I want to be fair to my customers - this will aid in customer retention.  I have picked up so many jobs over the past year from customers who decided their existing window cleaners were charging too much.  I don't want to lose customers because I'm too expensive.

I have a very easy rule of thumb regarding pricing which is if I lost the job because someone was cheaper would it bother me. If the answer is yes then I will lower the price. Time is obviously the major factor on pricing but other factors come into play as well.

 

[cleaniac]

I appreciate what you're saying. But there's no such thing as "market rate" for window cleaners.  There's a huge disparity across the country in terms of pricing, even within the same street.  There is no wrong or right when pricing up jobs but what I do not want to do, is to rip people off.  I am simply not willing to charge £40 for what will eventually prove to be a 30 minute job just to clean windows.  

I want to be fair to my customers - this will aid in customer retention.  I have picked up so many jobs over the past year from customers who decided their existing window cleaners were charging too much.  I don't want to lose customers because I'm too expensive.  I want them to be happy and pay what is fair.  I'm not cheap (although a couple have said I am but I've remedied those prices already) but I am not a rip-off merchant either.  I have picked up jobs that I charge at £25-£30 that takes no more than 30 minutes max.  They were paying around £45 with their previous window cleaners.  There are people out there being ripped off and they will end up losing customers because of this.

I'm not in this game to build long-term wealth by fleecing people, and to be honest, charging £40+ to clean windows that takes no longer than 30 minutes is fleecing people.  There are TV programmes that document rip-off Britain - we don't want window cleaners to feature on there.

Maybe I have the wrong mind-set.  Maybe I'm not cut out to be a successful window cleaner because of my pricing.  All I want, is to bring in an income of around £40-50k and I can do this by charging for work based on my £40 per hour rate.  That's all I need.

Therefore, with all due respect, I do not agree with you. ?

Fair enough! ?

On the note of fleecing people, £40 isn't fleecing people, you were ok as it was. ?

Many years back, I had a guy contact me to do his windows, he said "come round and have a look but it's a big house and I'm paying quite a bit"

"Ok" I said, did the quote £120. He nearly fell of his chair, he was currently paying £300, and other quotes were coming in at similar levels, if not more from other people.

Now I didn't know what he was already paying before I quoted, I thought that £120 at the time was unlikely to make him take it, and at the time I was probably winning 3 out of 10 quotes, but I wanted well priced work.

So he bit my arm off. I have been cleaning his windows now for 13 years, and it's now around the £150 Mark, it takes me 90 mins. He is still happy with me, has had numerous other window cleaners try to quote but has stuck with me. 

So there you go, pricing is subjective in a free market. Unfortunately we over the last 30 years have  been programmed by the media in this Marxists, communistic way that a certain price is a rip off, and your a criminal for earning over x amount per hour. 

 

[swc1]

Don't actually know if I want them or not. All of their personal houses are well priced and the payment is same day or early next day but the commitment might be too much considering my travelling work.

I suppose it might be a nice problem to have.

Seperate van to do the out of town stuff is an idea...

 

[Davy G]

Son and I have a fairly simple rule of thumb with pricing. We try to strike a balance where we get a good but fair to both parties (customers and us) rate for the time, effort and water involved. We aim to be at a rate where the customer is likely to stay loyal. But we don't lose sight that we are a professional business, with significant expenses and with long term aims. Not, as I've said before "A pint, a pie and a flutter on the horses, Outfit!"

We aim to thrive. We may well price slightly higher than a lot of people. I don't know? Pricing slightly higher than others to keep the prices buoyant for the benefit of all of us in the trade is our intention.

It's not generally hard work in our case with mostly two storey domestic maintenance washes. But nevertheless, every penny is physically worked for and earned. We're on the go physically the whole time when we're on the tools. There's no sitting at a desk striking sales deals over a coffee like some of our customers who are wine or property merchants. I'm not criticising people in sales, by the way. How they make their living is their business. Just saying that anyone who does work should be properly paid for it no matter what it is. ?

 

[Part Timer]

Seperate van to do the out of town stuff is an idea...

That's due in the next couple of weeks ? It's the finding the other person to do the extra work is the problem because one thing's for certain, I'm not doing it.

 

[swc1]

That's due in the next couple of weeks ? It's the finding the other person to do the extra work is the problem because one thing's for certain, I'm not doing it.

Yup that's the hardest part. You'll find the right person if you look hard enough ?

 

[NewGuy]

I priced a couple of bungalows a few weeks back at £25 & £30 on 8 weekly they will most likely with me taking my time a little more than I might an hour to do the two as they are next door to each other, I feel I may have gone in a bit high but I got them and price will stay the same despite some apprehension on whether I'll retain them, got another job at £25 again priced high but it's very easy to clean, 

People jumping ship because there last window cleaner was too expensive, I get this every once in a while, people drop me saying I'm too expensive like I am taking their eyes out go with someone maybe a £1 cheaper and then I drive past weeks later and they have brand new cars on the drive ?

I agree with you ? I just felt that £40 for this bungalow was on the high side.  This is my first occasion where I have actually dropped the price and I can assure you that this is not a habit I intend to continue. ?  I think £35 for this particular job is still on the high side but I certainly won't be dropping it any further ?