Anyone used Ionics?

[Cleanco]

Those tests were conducted over ten years ago. Things have changed a lot since then. Do you know who the competitors system was that they used?

 

[Master Jedi Alejandro]

Those tests were conducted over ten years ago. Things have changed a lot since then. Do you know who the competitors system was that they used?

You are correct a number of companies also have crash tested designs now (though a good number also don’t). But you were talking about DIY & asking why you would spend the money on a professional system. You asked ‘am I missing something?’. That’s what you where missing. No DIY system is staying put in a crash, unfortunately

 

[spruce]

Oh dear another ban coming on

That would be a bit of a pity because, even although Smurf had his set opinions, I found his 'no holes barred', blunt input very helpful in my early days.

 

[Cleanco]

You are correct a number of companies also have crash tested designs now (though a good number also don’t). But you were talking about DIY & asking why you would spend the money on a professional system. You asked ‘am I missing something?’. That’s what you were missing. No DIY system is staying put in a crash, unfortunately

Why not? Get your tank and frame bolted in by a professional then do the rest yourself. I press a button and water comes out my pole, exactly the same as yours. It’s not rocket science and you could be saving yourself a small fortune. Each to their own I suppose but I’d rather drop some work and spend the time doing things I enjoy rather than working to line someone else’s pocket.

 

[Cleanco]

I will also add that a lot of window cleaning products are very biased in their advertising to sell more product and from personal experience you shouldn’t believe everything you watch on tv.

 

[Master Jedi Alejandro]

Why not? Get your tank and frame bolted in by a professional then do the rest yourself. I press a button and water comes out my pole, exactly the same as yours. It’s not rocket science and you could be saving yourself a small fortune. Each to their own I suppose but I’d rather drop some work and spend the time doing things I enjoy rather than working to line someone else’s pocket.

You have no way of knowing if the tank and frame you have purchased, and had installed, is actually capable of staying put in a crash unless the design has been tested. That testing costs money & is why these systems cost more.
I do agree you can save a lot of money learning how to do things yourself. But you can’t install a tank yourself, not safely. And even a couch builder won’t have tested the design they install for you. Only a handful of companies, Ionics, PureFreedom, Grippa, Streamline (there are others I can’t call to mind at the moment) have spent the money to develop tested systems.

Also, I just wanna point out, it didn’t cost me tens of thousands. My system, excluding all extras like waterproofing, electric reel etc (but including all the core parts like controller, pump, resin vessel etc) was £2k installed.

 

[Master Jedi Alejandro]

I will also add that a lot of window cleaning products are very biased in their advertising to sell more product and from personal experience you shouldn’t believe everything you watch on tv.

Yes this is very true. The video I posted was tests conducted by Thatcham Research for Ionics. Other companies have used similar institutes in their testing. They’ve all found the same. Unless adequately designed for, these tanks have no guarantees of staying put. If I’m not mistaken, Ionics had a design they thought would work (bolted into chassis, steel frame etc). It didn’t. They had to redesign and test again.

 

[dazmond]

Ionics are very expensive.every single item has a unbelievable mark up on it compared to lots of other companies but each to their own.everyone needs to make money....

To the OP the first thing you should do is contact ionics.im sure they'll sort it for you.

Second GET TO KNOW YOUR SYSTEM INSIDE OUT as invariably things will break and need replacing in the future.its a lot cheaper and easier if you can avoid taking your system back to ionics once they sort this issue out...they'll have your pants down every time.....you have been warned!

 

[spruce]

The reality is that these tanks are only tested to 30mph, so giving them the accolade of "crash tested" gives us a false impression of security.

I've heard people argue that as the cargo floor is lower than the driver's cabin, that load isn't going anywhere. This crash test video goes to show how the load tips forward and pushes the driver onto the steering wheel. If a driver's airbag is deployed, it doesn't help the driver either.

 

[Cleanco]

You have no way of knowing if the tank and frame you have purchased, and had installed, is actually capable of staying put in a crash unless the design has been tested. That testing costs money & is why these systems cost more.
I do agree you can save a lot of money learning how to do things yourself. But you can’t install a tank yourself, not safely. And even a couch builder won’t have tested the design they install for you. Only a handful of companies, Ionics, PureFreedom, Grippa, Streamline (there are others I can’t call to mind at the moment) have spent the money to develop tested systems.

Also, I just wanna point out, it didn’t cost me tens of thousands. My system, excluding all extras like waterproofing, electric reel etc (but including all the core parts like controller, pump, resin vessel etc) was £2k installed.

You’re right there buddy. They will be safer but not 100%. Even the best crash tested systems are only tested up to very lowest speed brackets on our roads. I would like to see a video showing a real life scenario and not a biased one to make them look good. There’s an obvious reason why they don’t.

 

[OGradys]

Worst company, substandard goods at extortionate prices, just good brand management, rude salesmen , I let them keep 1k deposit to get out of 10k install after they ignored my drawings for the install of the system, I ended up with holes in my new vans chassis no system and a day wasted plus 1k, I could of flew to Amsterdam and had my back doors blown off, stayed in a 5 star hotel and at least got a thanku for less

 

[Master Jedi Alejandro]

The reality is that these tanks are only tested to 30mph, so giving them the accolade of "crash tested" gives us a false impression of security.

I've heard people argue that as the cargo floor is lower than the driver's cabin, that load isn't going anywhere. This crash test video goes to show how the load tips forward and pushes the driver onto the steering wheel. If a driver's airbag is deployed, it doesn't help the driver either.

You’re right there buddy. They will be safer but not 100%. Even the best crash tested systems are only tested up to very lowest speed brackets on our roads. I would like to see a video showing a real life scenario and not a biased one to make them look good. There’s an obvious reason why they don’t.

This is all very true and I don’t disagree with either of you. But surely a system tested to withstand a sudden impact stop (the worst type) at 30mph is still better than a system that has no testing? Don’t get me wrong it would be great to see a 70mph test. But a 30mph dead stop is still an extreme situation. Most vehicles will roll, turn etc which will distribute the force.

Also, bear in mind these are 1000L tanks all companies test for. If you have a smaller tank, the clamps and frame design is the same, just the water tank is lighter. I’m not naive enough to believe my 500l system is safe up to 60mph, that’s not how physics works, but again it’s an added perimeter of safety.

One final word on this then I’ll stop. A lot of the accidents involving window cleaners in the past few years have been relativity slow collisions. There was one, a three way through a junction during morning rush hour. No one was going that fast. The occupants of the two cars involved walked way without a bruise. The window cleaner was crushed by his own tank. It’s true these systems aren’t rated above 30, but low speeds is where you are most likely to have an accident. And a system that is partly tested is still miles better than one that isn’t at all.

 

[Cleanco]

This is all very true and I don’t disagree with either of you. But surely a system tested to withstand a sudden impact stop (the worst type) at 30mph is still better than a system that has no testing? Don’t get me wrong it would be great to see a 70mph test. But a 30mph dead stop is still an extreme situation. Most vehicles will roll, turn etc which will distribute the force.

Also, bear in mind these are 1000L tanks all companies test for. If you have a smaller tank, the clamps and frame design is the same, just the water tank is lighter. I’m not naive enough to believe my 500l system is safe up to 60mph, that’s not how physics works, but again it’s an added perimeter of safety.

One final word on this then I’ll stop. A lot of the accidents involving window cleaners in the past few years have been relativity slow collisions. There was one, a three way through a junction during morning rush hour. No one was going that fast. The occupants of the two cars involved walked way without a bruise. The window cleaner was crushed by his own tank. It’s true these systems aren’t rated above 30, but low speeds is where you are most likely to have an accident. And a system that is partly tested is still miles better than one that isn’t at all.

Tbh mate I’ve never trusted any of em, especially upright tanks. I’ve always used medium flat tanks for that reason. If you position your pumps as low as the outlet and combine them with non return valves I very rarely get airlock problems as many seem complain about

 

[P4dstar]

I really hope the OP lets everyone know how this panned out in the end.

I agree with what @spruce said about the car derived van thing. I have this issue with our Fiat Doblo. If you reread the OP’s post you’ll also spot that the issues was spotted as his feet got wet. This tells me there is a chance the leak out of the back is an assumption? The water noise is as likely to be the pressure release valve returning water to the tank. I would think if you had an actual leak in a brand new van with a brand new system and XLine in the back it would become apparent pretty quickly?

 

[spruce]

I really hope the OP lets everyone know how this panned out in the end.

I agree with what @spruce said about the car derived van thing. I have this issue with our Fiat Doblo. If you reread the OP’s post you’ll also spot that the issues was spotted as his feet got wet. This tells me there is a chance the leak out of the back is an assumption? The water noise is as likely to be the pressure release valve returning water to the tank. I would think if you had an actual leak in a brand new van with a brand new system and XLine in the back it would become apparent pretty quickly?

I would also hope @HamishMcdoodle lets us know of the outcome.

A leak can develop over time. It may not have been there when the system was first fitted and tested. It could also come from operator error. (I overfilled my tank on my van several times. It's amazing how fast a tank fills when you just pop inside to put the kettle on. Now I stand by the van and watch.)

With my son's first Peugeot Partner van, the electrics for the rear lights, the interior cargo light and the central locking all run down the side of the driver's sill. Unbelievably, there is a full harness cable join just near the driver's seat area. When the foot wells fill up with water, that harness coupling gets full of water and the terminals start to corrode. Hence, the reason for fibre glassing this van so any spilt water is prevented from leaking into the footwells.

Often, leaks can come when a system freezes in winter and fittings crack.
New components can fail, and the cause of a leak could be due to a manufacturing or an assembly fault. This is why warranties have a time clause for faulty workmanship and/or materials.

The very fact that it was described as the sound of "water pouring into a bucket" would mean an immediate investigation on my part.

What is the supplier expected to say when called on the phone? The best advice over the phone would be to bring the van in and let us look at it. In another life, that's exactly what I would have offered. We don't know what each party said on the phone, hence why we are asking for an outcome to his issue and how it was resolved.

 

[Innocence and Experience]

Did you find the cause of the leak, i have something similar!

 

[francie]

I was thinking these tested systems havent been tested at a decent speed,500litre tank an above at 50 or 60 70mph is not holding,thank God I dont have to drive further than a mile or two at most to work,I use a trailer,tho I know the tank would come out of that too.

 

[Part Timer]

I was thinking these tested systems havent been tested at a decent speed,500litre tank an above at 50 or 60 70mph is not holding,thank God I dont have to drive further than a mile or two at most to work,I use a trailer,tho I know the tank would come out of that too.

I've just driven 335 miles with an 800 litre tank, full, behind me

 

[francie]

I've just driven 335 miles with an 800 litre tank, full, behind me

You out working on fathers day lol

 

[AW Services]

You are correct a number of companies also have crash tested designs now (though a good number also don’t). But you were talking about DIY & asking why you would spend the money on a professional system. You asked ‘am I missing something?’. That’s what you where missing. No DIY system is staying put in a crash, unfortunately

What's your definition of diy system?

 

[Part Timer]

You out working on fathers day lol

Driving down on a Sunday so I can start work at 8am this morning. Driving down with my son so makes Fathers Day a father and son day