Auto shut off valve

[AGlassAct]

No limit - something like this
http://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/all-products/pump-hose/pump-controllers/system-controllers/liquid-logic-trade-autofill.html
If your using a booster pump (doesn’t sound like it if you’ve specified a HF5) you’ll need something a bit different and it becomes slightly more complicated.


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[No Limit]

Thank you for your suggestion @A Glass Act.
I'm not planning on using a booster pump so is the solenoid option not viable in that case?

What is the complicated option?

Is there no fitting similar to the 1/4" 4 way auto shut off valve, but in 1/2"?


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[AGlassAct]

No limit - the suggested would be perfect then. I’m sure the solenoid comes with 1/2” fitting so you can buy adaptors to suit whatever fittings you have. I don’t use the Gardiner one myself so assume the solenoid is fitted to the mains water inlet so once the flow switch (installed in your tank) shuts it activates the solenoid to shut off - so no need for another solenoid as once the main feed is off both the pure and waste stops.


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[spruce]

No limit - the suggested would be perfect then. I’m sure the solenoid comes with 1/2” fitting so you can buy adaptors to suit whatever fittings you have. I don’t use the Gardiner one myself so assume the solenoid is fitted to the mains water inlet so once the flow switch (installed in your tank) shuts it activates the solenoid to shut off - so no need for another solenoid as once the main feed is off both the pure and waste stops.


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:1f44d: 100% correct. He could still use this if he wanted to buy a booster pump in future, but he would need one with an automatic digital cutoff switch such as the one supplied by Machine Mart.

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/cbm240e-1in-multi-stage-230v-booster-pum/

He could use any other booster pump but would need to add the controller which is available separately.

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/clarke-epc800-electronic-water-pump-control-un/

 

[AGlassAct]

Cheers spruce, It’s been a while since I rigged up my booster up but recall it being a pain in the butt to get going. I ended up fitting another solenoid (powered by the flow switch) to the waste outlet so when the tank sensor detected it was full it switched the flow off which in turn switched the booster pump off and the waste solenoid. I tried the booster pump in every position I could think of and couldn’t think of another way it would work without adding this additional solenoid. Much simpler on a van mounted RO system without booster!


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[No Limit]

Thank you for your suggestions@AGlassAct and@Spruce.
I'm still curious to know of any other methods for an auto shut off valve in 1/2"?

The solenoid option seems the only one at the moment, but it has so many components and would need constant power during fill up. This is another set back as the battery for my pump is charged at home using a smart charger, would it be a strain if wired to my transit customs battery(it's the cheapest one Ford could find, difficulty starting in cold weather even after warranty replacement)?

This is the best option I found the only problem it is designed for the 1/4" set up. I don't want to reduce the feeds from the 4040 from 1/2" to 1/4" as this would impact on the flow reducing the GPD.

https://www.vyair.com/auto-shut-kit-aquarium-ro-filter-window-cleaning.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw-bLVBRBMEiwAmKSB82etY6Kw4BOQk_oYDt1Z1sXZNN5H-koFC8n4rlsD4KhzU0ju4D-CDxoCrhwQAvD_BwE

Are there similar options in 1/2" or is the solenoid the only option?

Many thanks

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[AGlassAct]

I wouldn’t wire direct to the vans battery - especially on a newer van (post 2015). Can you not charge your leisure battery while in your van? The simplest solution is the Gardiner one wired into your systems loom but if you have to physically remove your leisure battery to charge it you’ll lose the ability to fill your van while the battery is on the bench. I’ve not seen anything in 1/2” but might be worth asking RO man or Vyair if they make them.


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[spruce]

Thank you for your suggestions@AGlassAct and@Spruce.
I'm still curious to know of any other methods for an auto shut off valve in 1/2"?

The solenoid option seems the only one at the moment, but it has so many components and would need constant power during fill up. This is another set back as the battery for my pump is charged at home using a smart charger, would it be a strain if wired to my transit customs battery(it's the cheapest one Ford could find, difficulty starting in cold weather even after warranty replacement)?

This is the best option I found the only problem it is designed for the 1/4" set up. I don't want to reduce the feeds from the 4040 from 1/2" to 1/4" as this would impact on the flow reducing the GPD.

https://www.vyair.com/auto-shut-kit-aquarium-ro-filter-window-cleaning.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw-bLVBRBMEiwAmKSB82etY6Kw4BOQk_oYDt1Z1sXZNN5H-koFC8n4rlsD4KhzU0ju4D-CDxoCrhwQAvD_BwE

Are there similar options in 1/2" or is the solenoid the only option?

Many thanks

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If you really want to get fancy Brodex (shivers down my spine) have a ball valve assembly inside their tanks that shut the flow of tap water off to the r/o. The theory is that your water inlet from your supply goes into the valve. When the tank is low on water the ball valve opens which allows water through the valve into another pipe which exits the tank to the inlet of the r/o. When the tank is full the valve closes and switches the flow off to the r/o.

It works in the same way as a toilet ball valve does but instead of the water flowing into the cistern, it gets directed to the r/o.

https://brodexbms.co.uk/product/tank-float-valve/

 

[No Limit]

If you really want to get fancy Brodex (shivers down my spine) have a ball valve assembly inside their tanks that shut the flow of tap water off to the r/o. The theory is that your water inlet from your supply goes into the valve. When the tank is low on water the ball valve opens which allows water through the valve into another pipe which exits the tank to the inlet of the r/o. When the tank is full the valve closes and switches the flow off to the r/o.
It works in the same way as a toilet ball valve does but instead of the water flowing into the cistern, it gets directed to the r/o.
 
https://brodexbms.co.uk/product/tank-float-valve/
 
 

Thanks for the link@Spruce, but am I right in thinking this option wouldn't stop the RO flushing once the tank is full?

In that case it's a very overpriced float valve?

Thank you for the advice@AGlassAct regarding not wiring the solenoid valve straight into the vans loom.

So in that case I would have to install a split charge relay at the same time unless I charge the battery in the van which is a possible option.

I'm so confused why the 1/4" 4 way auto shut off valve is not available in 1"2 as it looks like the easiest option.

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[AGlassAct]

Remember the 1/4” RO systems aren’t commercial systems, they are generally used for aquariums and home water production - so the demands aren’t as great. A 4040 is a commercial grade filtration unit designed to produce the maximum amount of water in the shortest space of time. That simply can’t be achieved with such small capacity hose. Why haven’t they designed a similar thing for commercial? No idea as I’m not 100% sure how the 4 way valve works (not without reading about it anyway!)
If you are able to run electric to your van that’s the option I would take every day of the week, you don’t have to keep lugging your battery in and out of the van and you can also stick a low wattage heater/radiator in the back of the van when the weather turns nasty to keep the frost off your RO (another major consideration as it can break if subjected to frost). Do you need to fit a split charge relay? The first question is how old is your van as newer vans have to have a battery to battery charger not a VSR. I have a VSR but have turned it off (I fitted an isolation switch when I put it in) it’s a good back up for me just in case I have a battery failure whilst out or my battery just runs flat as I can turn it back on and start my van so I can finish my day. For a single user like me I do a deep charge once a week - I personally think my battery will last longer as drip feeding it throughout the day while driving seems to impact on the overall life of it.


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[No Limit]

Remember the 1/4” RO systems aren’t commercial systems, they are generally used for aquariums and home water production - so the demands aren’t as great. A 4040 is a commercial grade filtration unit designed to produce the maximum amount of water in the shortest space of time. That simply can’t be achieved with such small capacity hose. Why haven’t they designed a similar thing for commercial? No idea as I’m not 100% sure how the 4 way valve works (not without reading about it anyway!)
If you are able to run electric to your van that’s the option I would take every day of the week, you don’t have to keep lugging your battery in and out of the van and you can also stick a low wattage heater/radiator in the back of the van when the weather turns nasty to keep the frost off your RO (another major consideration as it can break if subjected to frost). Do you need to fit a split charge relay? The first question is how old is your van as newer vans have to have a battery to battery charger not a VSR. I have a VSR but have turned it off (I fitted an isolation switch when I put it in) it’s a good back up for me just in case I have a battery failure whilst out or my battery just runs flat as I can turn it back on and start my van so I can finish my day. For a single user like me I do a deep charge once a week - I personally think my battery will last longer as drip feeding it throughout the day while driving seems to impact on the overall life of it.


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That is really good point @AGlasssAct the van is 14 reg transit custom limited. I haven't looked in to what options I have regarding charging the battery.

I was planning to use a simple VSR in the future, but not sure if that will be possible.

I like the idea of having it wired in and using it for a back up, I've had an of day where I've forgot to charge and end up a little low on power. I definitely agree that charging the battery on a deep cycle keeps it going for longer.

So regarding auto shut off the best option I have at the moment is the Gardiner's solenoid kit (not cheap) is it worth the money?

I will try contacting some suppliers on Monday regarding a 1/2" 4 way auto shut off valve as I don't see why it's not viable.

I was hoping for a bigger response from the pioneers of wfp cleaning on this forum? Perhaps I should have started a new thread just felt like it was relevant under this one?
I would really appreciate any further advice and thank you for your help so far guys@AGlassAct@Spruce!



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[No Limit]

Remember the 1/4” RO systems aren’t commercial systems, they are generally used for aquariums and home water production - so the demands aren’t as great. A 4040 is a commercial grade filtration unit designed to produce the maximum amount of water in the shortest space of time. That simply can’t be achieved with such small capacity hose. Why haven’t they designed a similar thing for commercial? No idea as I’m not 100% sure how the 4 way valve works (not without reading about it anyway!)
If you are able to run electric to your van that’s the option I would take every day of the week, you don’t have to keep lugging your battery in and out of the van and you can also stick a low wattage heater/radiator in the back of the van when the weather turns nasty to keep the frost off your RO (another major consideration as it can break if subjected to frost). Do you need to fit a split charge relay? The first question is how old is your van as newer vans have to have a battery to battery charger not a VSR. I have a VSR but have turned it off (I fitted an isolation switch when I put it in) it’s a good back up for me just in case I have a battery failure whilst out or my battery just runs flat as I can turn it back on and start my van so I can finish my day. For a single user like me I do a deep charge once a week - I personally think my battery will last longer as drip feeding it throughout the day while driving seems to impact on the overall life of it.


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That's a great point@AGlassAct. Not sure what happened to my last post seems to only have copied your post.

I run a 14 reg transit custom limited and was hoping to add a VSR in the near future, but I understand that you should run the battery through a deep cycle charge every now and then.
I rally like the idea of having it wired into the van for a back up(I've had the odd day where I was running low on power having forgotten to charge up).
I have yet to do my research on what options are available for me, but at the moment I bring the battery in for a deep cycle charge. So any advice is much appreciated.

I will be contacting some RO companies on Monday to enquire about what options they offer for automatic shut off, but I can't see why they haven't designed the 1/4" 4 way shut off valve in 1" 2 for the commercial RO's as it seems like it's a cracking piece of kit. My guess it may restrict flow too much?


I was hoping to hear more suggestions from the pioneers of wfp cleaning on the forum, perhaps I should have started a new thread, but thought it'd be relevant to keep it under this one?

Really appreciate your help so far@AGlassAct and@Spruce

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[spruce]

Thanks for the link@Spruce, but am I right in thinking this option wouldn't stop the RO flushing once the tank is full?

In that case it's a very overpriced float valve?

Thank you for the advice@AGlassAct regarding not wiring the solenoid valve straight into the vans loom.

So in that case I would have to install a split charge relay at the same time unless I charge the battery in the van which is a possible option.

I'm so confused why the 1/4" 4 way auto shut off valve is not available in 1"2 as it looks like the easiest option.

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The water comes from the tap straight through the ball valve and then onto the r/o. So when the tank is full, all the water is shut off. No water will pass into the r/o so there will be no pure and no waste generated when the tank is full. Its a mechanical version of the electric solenoid.

I would suggest you phone Brodex on Monday and confirm this.

You will need a water tight connector to feed this water pipe back outside the tank to the r/o and then you will need another to feed the pure into the tank from the r/o.

You will need to drill a third hole for the ball valve. To get the best fill one would need to position the ball valve so it takes advantage of the extra height available in the head of the filler cap to accommodate the ball of the valve.

.

 

[No Limit]

 
The water comes from the tap straight through the ball valve and then onto the r/o. So when the tank is full, all the water is shut off. No water will pass into the r/o so there will be no pure and no waste generated when the tank is full. Its a mechanical version of the electric solenoid.
 
I would suggest you phone Brodex on Monday and confirm this.
 
You will need a water tight connector to feed this water pipe back outside the tank to the r/o and then you will need another to feed the pure into the tank from the r/o.
 
You will need to drill a third hole for the ball valve. To get the best fill one would need to position the ball valve so it takes advantage of the extra height available in the head of the filler cap to accommodate the ball of the valve.
 
.

Thank you for your explanation@Spruce! I think a mechanical shut off valve is a bit more reliable than a solenoid? I like the sound of this one and cheaper than the Gardiners solenoid kit[emoji106] not sure of any other pros and cons?

Curious to know what the rest of the guys use on their set ups?

Will be giving Brodex a ring on Monday.

Any more suggestions?

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[spruce]

Thank you for your explanation@Spruce! I think a mechanical shut off valve is a bit more reliable than a solenoid? I like the sound of this one and cheaper than the Gardiners solenoid kit

not sure of any other pros and cons?

Curious to know what the rest of the guys use on their set ups?

Will be giving Brodex a ring on Monday.

Any more suggestions?

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I've run a solenoid valve with a float switch in my static tank for 10 years now with only 1 issue and it was something I did that caused the problem. The float switch didn't shut the solenoid valve off. I had accidently knocked it off its mounting inside the tank. It didn't result in a train smash as I had fitted an overflow pipe and the overflow was redirected to the outside drain as designed.

 

[No Limit]

I've run a solenoid valve with a float switch in my static tank for 10 years now with only 1 issue and it was something I did that caused the problem. The float switch didn't shut the solenoid valve off. I had accidently knocked it off its mounting inside the tank. It didn't result in a train smash as I had fitted an overflow pipe and the overflow was redirected to the outside drain as designed.

Thanks for your feedback on your experience with the solenoid valve@Spruce.

Was it the Gardiner's one ? I assume you have it powered by a 240v supply.

Would it be a strain on the leisure battery as I've read the coil gets really hot? Wonder what the wattage would be?

Any more advice from other RO set ups and what can be used for an auto shut off once full of pure would be much appreciated.

Perhaps a timed valve? Any suggestions?

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[spruce]

Thanks for your feedback on your experience with the solenoid valve@Spruce.

Was it the Gardiner's one ? I assume you have it powered by a 240v supply.

Would it be a strain on the leisure battery as I've read the coil gets really hot? Wonder what the wattage would be?

Any more advice from other RO set ups and what can be used for an auto shut off once full of pure would be much appreciated.

Perhaps a timed valve? Any suggestions?

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I use a Machinemart float switch.

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/float-switch-230v-2m-cable/

I use a length of conduit secured to the 'roof' of my IBC tank which is about 300mm long which the cable runs through. On each end of this length of conduit is a cable gland. The one cable gland holds everything to the 'roof of the IBC tank. With the cable under tension the conduit is kept in inside the 2 cable glands. The 'lower' cable gland acts as a pivot for the float switch.



I do use 240v volt current even although its not best electrical practice. My reasoning was that this float switch is the same used on 240v submersible pumps.(Its just wired up the other way around.) The garage is on earth leakage protection so evrything will trip if there is an electrical issue.

Purefreedom also use a 12v solenoid system on their van mount systems connected to the units 12v battery. I've never seen one complaint about heavy current draw with these solenoid valves. They operate as normally closed. If you have a 600 liter tank with a 4040 r/o mounted, then the r/o should fill your tank at 120 liters per hour. So at most your solenoid is going to draw current for 5 hours. I'm sure someone at Gardiners will be able to supply you with current draw details.

.

 

[No Limit]

I use a Machinemart float switch.
https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/float-switch-230v-2m-cable/
 
I use a length of conduit secured to the 'roof' of my IBC tank which is about 300mm long which the cable runs through. On each end of this length of conduit is a cable gland. The one cable gland holds everything to the 'roof of the IBC tank. With the cable under tension the conduit is kept in inside the 2 cable glands. The 'lower' cable gland acts as a pivot for the float switch.
 
 
View attachment 13185View attachment 13186
 
I do use 240v volt current even although its not best electrical practice. My reasoning was that this float switch is the same used on 240v submersible pumps.(Its just wired up the other way around.) The garage is on earth leakage protection so evrything will trip if there is an electrical issue.
 
Purefreedom also use a 12v solenoid system on their van mount systems connected to the units 12v battery. I've never seen one complaint about heavy current draw with these solenoid valves. They operate as normally closed. If you have a 600 liter tank with a 4040 r/o mounted, then the r/o should fill your tank at 120 liters per hour. So at most your solenoid is going to draw current for 5 hours. I'm sure someone at Gardiners will be able to supply you with current draw details.
 
.
 

That's a really detailed description and a very clever set up@Spruce thank you for sharing.
It looks like a great set up for an IBC not sure it would be the way forward in a van mounted tank, watertightness isuue on the move?

Seems like the solenoid option is the way to go for me too and the Gardiners kit looks to be the most suitable so far(though not cheap at nearly £100[emoji51] ).

Any comments would be really appreciated.

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[Nudel]

Depending on how posh you want it, you can DIY a system like the one from gardiners for less than 10£ if you have some bits and bobs like cables and a power brick.

Not saying a pro system with support isn't worth the extra price of course.

I could do a video on my version of this setup tomorrow if you're interested.

 

[No Limit]

Depending on how posh you want it, you can DIY a system like the one from gardiners for less than 10£ if you have some bits and bobs like cables and a power brick.
 
Not saying a pro system with support isn't worth the extra price of course.
 
I could do a video on my version of this setup tomorrow if you're interested.

Hi@Nudel, that's a very good point[emoji108]

My headache is that I was planning to use this clever 4 way auto shut off valve which costs under £10 only to find it's only available in 1/4"[emoji30]

I'd love to see your set up if not too much trouble.

Any other suggestions?






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[Iron Giant]

I was hoping for a bigger response from the pioneers of wfp cleaning on this forum? 



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I the only reason i haven't responded is mine is a basic set up no float switch I just keep an eye static tank after i get home and fill van tank on a morning i also live in a soft water area so a simple ro set up . You seem like a intelligent guy @No Limit plus you have had great input from @AGlassAct  & @spruce