Auto shut off valve

[spruce]

I the only reason i haven't responded is mine is a basic set up no float switch I just keep an eye static tank after i get home and fill van tank on a morning i also live in a soft water area so a simple ro set up . You seem like a intelligent guy @No Limit plus you have had great input from @AGlassAct  & @spruce

I needed an Automatic system as there were 3 of us drawing water from our static tank.

If you are on your own then you quickly get to know how long you can leave the system alone to refill your tank. If mine wasn't automated then I would probably draw water twice from the IBC tank before switching the r/o on. If I did this in the morning the tank will be nearly full when I got back in the evening.

 

[Pepsi]

Just popped out to my van as I noticed my waste water hadn’t slowed down tonight as usual (indicating my tank was nearly full) and the back was flooded. Seems my system has continued to fill past full and the auto shut off valve didn’t kick in. 
 
Was working fine last night so not sure where I should be checking when it’s light tomorrow. 
 
Any ideas? It’s a Facelift Phoenix 350 RO+DI. 
 
Cheers

Hi I have a facelift 650 same happens to me what it is the bullcock sometimes does not catch the rubber tube and continues to fill

Sent using the Window Cleaning Forums mobile app

 

[Nudel]

Hi@Nudel, that's a very good point

My headache is that I was planning to use this clever 4 way auto shut off valve which costs under £10 only to find it's only available in 1/4"

I'd love to see your set up if not too much trouble.

Any other suggestions?






Sent using the http://Window Cleaning Forums mobile app
 

Here you go.

https://youtu.be/V6WAWKMC2cQ

 

[No Limit]

Thank you for your feedback @Iron Giant. I was contemplating whether to just use the manual shut off option as it is quite common practice from what I've learnt. I wouldn't call myself intelligent[emoji28] I have so much to learn from you guys and big thanks to@AGlassAct and@Spruce for your input it has been very helpful[emoji123].

There's always something that can be improved so top marks for @Window Cleaning Forum and all the WFP community for sharing advice.
@Nudel many thanks for posting that video so quickly, it's a great simple set up which I will probably be implementing on my system too.

Any more recommendations would be much appreciated guys.

Sent using the http://Window Cleaning Forums mobile app

 

[Jordiebarrett]

I was tasked by the boss on automating our water production. We now have a float valve in the static tank (well 2 x 650 tanks with linked sumps), then acts as a master switch. Then we have a garden watering time clock that runs from 8 till 8 Monday Friday and more friendly hours on the weekend as above our storage is a flat. We then have a pressure sensor that's activates our booster pump. So if water is drawn, and it's between 8 and 8 then water comes on, pump starts and it fills. When full the float rises building pressure back into the 4 way switch block that shuts off the ro. Pressure drops so the pump turns off and we're ready to go again...

Sent using the Window Cleaning Forums mobile app

 

[No Limit]

I was tasked by the boss on automating our water production. We now have a float valve in the static tank (well 2 x 650 tanks with linked sumps), then acts as a master switch. Then we have a garden watering time clock that runs from 8 till 8 Monday Friday and more friendly hours on the weekend as above our storage is a flat. We then have a pressure sensor that's activates our booster pump. So if water is drawn, and it's between 8 and 8 then water comes on, pump starts and it fills. When full the float rises building pressure back into the 4 way switch block that shuts off the ro. Pressure drops so the pump turns off and we're ready to go again...

Sent using the Window Cleaning Forums mobile app

Thanks for sharing@Jordiebarrett[emoji106] what kind of timer do you use?

Is the 4 switch block in 1/4" 6 mm or 1/2' 15mm?

Sent using the http://Window Cleaning Forums mobile app

 

[Jordiebarrett]

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F151991486464 - auto shut off

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F281766709716 - low pressure switch

https://www.screwfix.com/p/programmable-digital-water-timer/18480?tc=EA3&ds_kid=92700019785680087&ds_rl=1247848&ds_rl=1245250&gclid=Cj0KCQjwv73VBRCdARIsAOnG8u3y-lrwcZ84w0FYdndc1D16t8zc9CvkZ5JDLW1-Dt3xnPgs4gd0kjcaAlQoEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CMHdiNTG-dkCFYnGUQodjRgNjA - timer

There are cheaper timers but the extra money allowed one with much greater control. My brother lives in the flat above so best not to annoy him with it being on early on the weekend etc. Also gives us a chance say when we had the snow to 'delay' the water by x number of days... So if it was really cold I pushed it back to get warmer temps as we find that greatly affects production.

Sent using the Window Cleaning Forums mobile app

 

[No Limit]

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F151991486464 - auto shut off

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F281766709716 - low pressure switch

https://www.screwfix.com/p/programmable-digital-water-timer/18480?tc=EA3&ds_kid=92700019785680087&ds_rl=1247848&ds_rl=1245250&gclid=Cj0KCQjwv73VBRCdARIsAOnG8u3y-lrwcZ84w0FYdndc1D16t8zc9CvkZ5JDLW1-Dt3xnPgs4gd0kjcaAlQoEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CMHdiNTG-dkCFYnGUQodjRgNjA - timer

There are cheaper timers but the extra money allowed one with much greater control. My brother lives in the flat above so best not to annoy him with it being on early on the weekend etc. Also gives us a chance say when we had the snow to 'delay' the water by x number of days... So if it was really cold I pushed it back to get warmer temps as we find that greatly affects production.

Sent using the Window Cleaning Forums mobile app

Nice one@Jordiebarrett that's the kind of auto shut off valve I was hoping to use initially, but can't seem to find one in 1/2" to go with the 4040 ro[emoji30].

I really like the timer from Screwfix[emoji106] and it has 4 settings for each day of the week which is a great aspect.
I may be able to just use a timer along with a simple float valve.

Sent using the http://Window Cleaning Forums mobile app

 

[Nudel]

Why are you insisting on using 1/2"? The smaller one will work anyway, just fill a bit slower. If that's what you have your mind set on, go for it. There are only so many ways one can fill a tank.

 

[spruce]

Why are you insisting on using 1/2"? The smaller one will work anyway, just fill a bit slower. If that's what you have your mind set on, go for it. There are only so many ways one can fill a tank.

A 4040 needs 1/2" hose.

 

[Nudel]

A 4040 needs 1/2" hose.

Interesting, so it won't work at all with lower hose diameter and less flow out?

 

[spruce]

Interesting, so it won't work at all with lower hose diameter and less flow out?

I have an old GPD450 r/o which uses 1/4" hose. I wanted to add a fourth membrane to turn it into a 600gpd r/o but the 1/4" hose doesn't allow enough water through. I didn't believe it so checked it and found insufficient water flow through the 1/4" prefilters. Once you head into 600gpd territory then all the r/o's are 3/8" pipe. A 4040 is rated at 2400gpd which is 4 times more than the 600gpd units.

Its also not always what an r/o needs in service which is important - its also what water delivery is needed for flushing. When flushing the waste water comes out of the waste pipe into the drain faster that it does out of the end of our 20 meter garden hose.

I'm sure I read somewhere that to run a 4040 efficiently you need a guaranteed tap water flow of 9lpm.

 

[Part Timer]

Interesting, so it won't work at all with lower hose diameter and less flow out?

Fancy questioning the guru known as @spruce  :1f632:   :1f609:

 

[spruce]

Fancy questioning the guru known as @spruce  :1f632:   :1f609:

If you want to look the way of a guru then you need to be looking at Alex Gardiner.

Technically I would love to be in his company for a few months as that would show me how little I know. He's forgotten what I will probably never get to know now.

 

[Part Timer]

If you want to look the way of a guru then you need to be looking at Alex Gardiner.

Technically I would love to be in his company for a few months as that would show me how little I know. He's forgotten what I will probably never get to know now.

And you will have forgotten more than me and whoever takes over after me. 

 

[spruce]

And you will have forgotten more than me and whoever takes over after me. 

I think you are being overly kind :1f603: .  But I have much to learn as well, but the old brain is not doing so well with that side of things atm. I keep hoping it will get back to the way it was but the outcome just doesn't look good. My brain has gone from a sieve to a sink hole these last couple of years. There are also large memory gaps appearing in places where there were no gaps previously. It reminds me of the depletion of the ozone layer.

I was thinking about this just now and I have to admit that all this brush talk has just gone right over my head. The latest talk is of Dupont bristles. What is that? Why are they better than ordinary bristles? Why do we need hybrid bristles and why do cleaners rave about hogs hair bristles? I have no understanding about these. 

I have a brush with inner hybrid bristles but I can't tell if the brush works better that one of my standard brushes or not. I can't tell the difference between them in application.

I have been hoping that someone does an indepth explanation of the advantages and disadvantages of these various bristles so I can understand what benefit I'm supposed to be getting.

I understand splay and stiffer inner bristles.

Simply, I prefer a sill brush over a standard Ultimate brush as it does 2 jobs at the same time and has more bristles. But I don't like the extra weight penalty.

I think I need to make this a new topic.

 

[No Limit]

 
I have an old GPD450 r/o which uses 1/4" hose. I wanted to add a fourth membrane to turn it into a 600gpd r/o but the 1/4" hose doesn't allow enough water through. I didn't believe it so checked it and found insufficient water flow through the 1/4" prefilters. Once you head into 600gpd territory then all the r/o's are 3/8" pipe. A 4040 is rated at 2400gpd which is 4 times more than the 600gpd units.
 
Its also not always what an r/o needs in service which is important - its also what water delivery is needed for flushing. When flushing the waste water comes out of the waste pipe into the drain faster that it does out of the end of our 20 meter garden hose.
 
I'm sure I read somewhere that to run a 4040 efficiently you need a guaranteed tap water flow of 9lpm.

@Spruce you are a guru for real[emoji106]this makes a lot of sense. Following many phonecalls and a reading up online this is what I've learned today.

I have been advise by a filter supplier today that a reducing the pipe work to 1/4" would work to a sluggish degree, as this would decrease the pressure significantly and the 4040s work better with higher pressure.

Also flushing the ro once the pure tank is full for prolonged periods eg longer than than 15mins causes the ro membrane to become less effective as the water ways get clogged up!

So an automatic shut off valve is essential to prolong the life of the membrane and due to the fact that the 4040 is classed as a commercial unit a solenoid shut off valve is the method of choice.

So do I make my own kit or stick with the Gardiner's one?(really don't like the fact that it's listed as a diagram and no images of the exact kit)

Sent using the Window Cleaning Forums mobile app

 

[spruce]

@Spruce you are a guru for real

this makes a lot of sense. Following many phonecalls and a reading up online this is what I've learned today.

I have been advise by a filter supplier today that a reducing the pipe work to 1/4" would work to a sluggish degree, as this would decrease the pressure significantly and the 4040s work better with higher pressure.

Also flushing the ro once the pure tank is full for prolonged periods eg longer than than 15mins causes the ro membrane to become less effective as the water ways get clogged up!

So an automatic shut off valve is essential to prolong the life of the membrane and due to the fact that the 4040 is classed as a commercial unit a solenoid shut off valve is the method of choice.

So do I make my own kit or stick with the Gardiner's one?(really don't like the fact that it's listed as a diagram and no images of the exact kit)

Sent using the Window Cleaning Forums mobile app
 

Understand how you feel, but I wouldn't worry about that. Its more of a schematic to show the different ways to power the solenoid, ie mains or battery. If there is one thing you can rely on is the product and after sales service supplied by Gardiners. Most of us have first hand experience of that.

.

 

[No Limit]

 
Understand how you feel, but I wouldn't worry about that. Its more of a schematic to show the different ways to power the solenoid, ie mains or battery. If there is one thing you can rely on is the product and after sales service supplied by Gardiners. Most of us have first hand experience of that.
 
.

Just an update for future references-
The guys at Gardiner's have emailed me a picture of the actual Liquid Logic System Autofill kit.

I'm still contemplating whether I should use a timer instead as it would cost a fraction of the price of this kit. Though thinning about it the downside to a timed valve is that the exact time of the fill varies depending on the weather(temperature) and filter life.

So perhaps it's worth investing in the kit?


Sent using the Window Cleaning Forums mobile app

 

[AGlassAct]

I would - saves messing about with other things that may not work and you can always add a timer to the kit if you want to control when it comes on etc. For the money and ease of use I wouldn’t hesitate


Sent using the Window Cleaning Forums mobile app