EU Vote: In or Out?

[Diwrnach]

By the way top Military people have condemned Cameron for that video, including the man who was in charge of the Falkland's war.

 

[simon]

So how can trade be used as an argument to stay? it doesn't make any sense to me, Russia has just released a paper explaining how much money Britain loses by not being able to trade freely with them, we actually do a lot of trade with Russia, I didn't know how much until I read the report.
We buy more than we sell, the EU won't stop trading with us as they will be the ones losing out.

i think a lot of your points are sound but are you really going to believe something the russians put out

 

[Diwrnach]

More so than Cameron lol

 

[dave83]

Well done for you for putting your country before yourself, how patriotic.
What's the benefit for my children's future of voting out ?

Personally Ill go with personal gain, that is the gain of myself and my close family and friends, because quite honestly I don't really care about "my once great country" and such nostalgic bs.

country has been gone since the 80's in my opinion.

 

[dave83]

Showing your passport has nothing to do with it, you still have to show your passport whether in or out it just makes travel easier as you wont even need permit/visas etc. Same goes for driving, i can hop in my car and drive across europe, no special requirement for permits, insurance or anything. I can also drive to italy, buy a house and live their no questions asked. Can work there without a permit etc.

For me, i enjoy my travel and have driven to many european countries dozens of times, i have relations who live n various E.U countrys and would hope to one day own a property abroad...so its an issue that matters to me and the only compeling reason i can think to want to vote either way. I wouldnt even have bothered voting if it wasnt for this issue as i dont really care about the rest of it. Whether were in or out isnt going to make much difference to our lives, its still every man for himself, i wont be relying on the government or europe to impact mine or my childrens lives, we`ll do that ourselves.

you speak of "our" country like you will have anything to do with it, just look after yourself this notion of "our" country doesnt exist, the govermnet runs the show, the rest of us pawns just make the best of the situations we find ourselves in

Im voting IN everyone else can vote as they please and for the reason they please thats politics, you choose the issues important to you and vote accordingly..it will be what it will be, a year form now no one will care and nothing much will have changed.

I already feel england is my country and my home, i feel english, leaving the e.u wont make me feel and more english just a bit more isolated from the rest of the world. I dont think isolating ourselves solves the problem the world has, just closes our eyes to it.

i'm voting in, the politicians talk about less rules, regulations but for who? rules, regulations that's great or what's not being talked about is rules, regulations-worse.

 

[Diwrnach]

Voting in for less rules?

Please explain

 

[Spartan]

Clever witty article written by Franky Boyle moaning about EU referendum - worth a read:/emoticons/biggrin.png

The Brexiteers look like villains cornered by Batman in a hall of mirrors | Frankie Boyle

 

[simon]

As a Glaswegian, I’m not convinced that I really have so much more in common with people in Seville than I do with those in Kabul, who at least have a similar life expectancy and standard of club football. class lmao

 

[steve garwood]

As a Glaswegian, I’m not convinced that I really have so much more in common with people in Seville than I do with those in Kabul, who at least have a similar life expectancy and standard of club football. class lmao

Plus a lot of their men wear skirts as well :thumbsup:

 

[Diwrnach]

If you don’t understand what all the fuss is about. Here is the EU put simply.

A son goes to his Dad having saved up some money from his weekend job.

Son “ Dad I’ve saved up £350 pounds to buy the new laptop I need for my college course”

Dad “Well done son, give the money to me and I’ll help you”

Son “Ok now what?”

Dad “I will allow you £185 pounds back less my handling fee of £5 so £180 which you may only spend on a new phone”

Son “But I need a laptop!”

Dad “No, we’ve decided you can only buy a phone and you may only buy a phone from Germany and it must be pink. You must also source the phone within 2 days otherwise I will not release the money”

Son “But it’s my money!”

Dad “I’m afraid you are a member of this family and you must contribute to everyone else’s needs. I will decide how the money is spent”

Son “So what happens to the £165?”

Dad “Well your sister needs a new dress”

Son “She has already had many new dresses”

Dad “We’ve put it to the vote and I’m afraid you’re outvoted”

Son “But I need a laptop to continue my course!”

Dad “My decision is final”

Son “But that’s not fair, will I ever have a say in how my money is spent”

Dad “No, and by the way we’ve got a couple more people moving into your room and you’ll have to pay for their keep”

Son “Well I’m leaving then”

Dad “Don’t be like that lad, we need your money. And if you leave you won’t be able to buy a pink phone from Germany you’ll have to buy one here instead”

Son “I NEED A LAPTOP!”

Simples

 

[Spartan]

very good! :thumbsup:/emoticons/biggrin.png

 

[Spartan]

View attachment 7863

 

[steve garwood]

If you don’t understand what all the fuss is about. Here is the EU put simply.A son goes to his Dad having saved up some money from his weekend job.

Son “ Dad I’ve saved up £350 pounds to buy the new laptop I need for my college course”

Dad “Well done son, give the money to me and I’ll help you”

Son “Ok now what?”

Dad “I will allow you £185 pounds back less my handling fee of £5 so £180 which you may only spend on a new phone”

Son “But I need a laptop!”

Dad “No, we’ve decided you can only buy a phone and you may only buy a phone from Germany and it must be pink. You must also source the phone within 2 days otherwise I will not release the money”

Son “But it’s my money!”

Dad “I’m afraid you are a member of this family and you must contribute to everyone else’s needs. I will decide how the money is spent”

Son “So what happens to the £165?”

Dad “Well your sister needs a new dress”

Son “She has already had many new dresses”

Dad “We’ve put it to the vote and I’m afraid you’re outvoted”

Son “But I need a laptop to continue my course!”

Dad “My decision is final”

Son “But that’s not fair, will I ever have a say in how my money is spent”

Dad “No, and by the way we’ve got a couple more people moving into your room and you’ll have to pay for their keep”

Son “Well I’m leaving then”

Dad “Don’t be like that lad, we need your money. And if you leave you won’t be able to buy a pink phone from Germany you’ll have to buy one here instead”

Son “I NEED A LAPTOP!”

Simples

Diwrnach, I've had a lot to drink tonight, but that is one of the best post ever on this forum I.m.o

 

[Diwrnach]

There are huge economic benefits from coming out of the EU.

- We stop paying a net £70 billion membership fee over the next five years to Brussels. http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/.../SN06091.pdf . Every single penny of that £70billion has to be borrowed, added to our state debt of £1.7 trillion and from the first minute adding interest to that debt, a double whammy.

- We can say no to millions of low wage , low skill EU immigrants who are depressing wages of low paid British workers and creating chaos in state services such as the NHS and education and overloading the state infrastructure. 630000 EU nationals given new NI numbers in the year to December, 209000 to Bulgarians and Romanians. https://www.gov.uk/.../nino-registrations-adult-overseas... MigrationWatch says Brexit would cut net immigration by 100,000 a year , http://www.telegraph.co.uk/.../Brexit-would-cut-net... . NI data suggests the cut would be substantially higher than that and would relieve pressure on hospitals, schools, infrastructure, jobs, wages and state finances.

- We get out of the protectionist and bureaucratic common agricultural policy, allowing us to recoup the £50 billion opportunity cost of CAP membership that we will incur over the next five years, for example by sourcing cheaper food from the rest of the world through free trade treaties instead of applying high EU tariffs. http://openeurope.org.uk/inte.../energy-and-environment/cap/

http://www.express.co.uk/.../Farmers-better-Britain...

- We get back our UK fishing grounds, 70% handed over to the EU, gaining us £15 billion over the next five years. http://www.efddgroup.eu/images/publications/Stolen_Seas.pdf

- We set our own trade treaties and exit the protectionist and bureaucratic single market which costs business tens of billions of pounds a year and which have saddled us with a £89 billion annual trade deficit with the EU, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Britain-s-trade-EU-slumps... , despite proof that EU setting our trade treaties and the single market are bad for British business. http://www.civitas.org.uk/content/files/mythandparadox.pdf . 200 SME's have recently signed a letter to Cameron endorsing Brexit.

- We will continue to have major foreign direct investment into the UK. The $830 billion Norwegian sovereign fund says it might invest more after Brexit http://www.breitbart.com/.../norways-830-billion-wealth.../ HSBC will stay after Brexit, Honda, Hitachi, Toyota, Nissan, Vauxhall will all stay here, Avon has just announced it is setting up its global HQ in the UK so it's not worried about Brexit. Neither are 73% of Chief Financial Officers who say Brexit will not affect their UK investment decisions http://www.cnbc.com/.../brexit-wont-hurt-our-trade-with...

- As for the City, there's growing consensus there that it will prosper outside the EU! Away from EU power grabs. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/.../UK-would-be-a-better-place... . Deutsche Boerse is so relaxed about potential Brexit it wants to merge with the London Stock Exchange.

- We can set our own energy policy instead of following the costly carbon emissions laws set by the EU

The EU is collapsing economically because of a dysfunctional currency, protectionism and bureaucracy, it's got deflation and minimal economic growth, why attach ourselves to,that economic carcass?

So Brexit will benefit Britain economically, business costs will fall, global business will still invest here, food prices will fall, we will get the controlled immigration we need, state spending will fall, we set our trade treaties and we are freed from single market bureaucracy.

 

[peter rogers]

@Diwrnach wanna know something funny

im voting out and yes voting i will

but im a irish citzen as that what a eire passport states

so if it all goes tits up i can go back to the eu lol /emoticons/tongue.png

 

[Diwrnach]

Want to know something even funnier, every EU country will welcome British folks anyway as long as they aren't useless people, so unless you are a useless person, who I don't think any on here are, you can go to any EU country you want anyway.

There were a lot of British folks in Spain long before the EU existed.

 

[Diwrnach]

Alternatively get a flight to Syria, lose your passport and the EU will welcome you anyway /emoticons/tongue.png

 

[peter rogers]

i think there will be alot of under handed moves by stay in campaign over next 2 weeks then after it be a great thing that we left

only thing swaying cameron to stay in is the banks cause short term they will lose out on some money due to the uncertainity of what happens next the bankers destroyed us before they shouldnt have such a strong power of infulence

 

[Diwrnach]

The tricks are already in full swing, some Polish folks have reported getting polling cards, a South African chap at my wife's work has got one as well, funnily enough though if he can vote he is voting out lol

 

[Spartan]

a South African chap at my wife's work has got one as well, funnily enough though if he can vote he is voting out lol

If he is registered to vote & from South Africa then I think he's eligible due to Commonwealth links.

About 50 countries are included in that and I think that includes S.Africa

Sent using the Window Cleaning Forums app

 

[Diwrnach]

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about June 23rd, and people want to know the facts. Here are some:

You are not voting to leave the EEA or WTO, meaning all of the UK's trade and benefit agreements will remain unchanged should we leave, until such a time that the UK decides to renegotiate them for any reason.

You are not voting to leave NATO, meaning our security agreements remain unchanged. Should we receive an act of hostility from a non-NATO member, then NATO countries are obliged to come to our assistance. This does not change.

You are not voting to leave the UN, G8 or G20, meaning Britain will have the same voice on the world stage as it does today.

You are not voting to leave Europe!! The UK will still, geographically, be part of Europe. Non political organisations aligned to Europe will still extend membership to the UK (I.e. sports governing bodies, and so on).

You are not voting to stop recognising Interpol, Europol and neither are you voting for SIS / MI6 to stop dealing with other intelligence services in the fight against terrorism and global, organised crime.

You are not voting against being able to travel to Europe, contrary to the belief of some fools recently on TV. The UK has always maintained stricter border and passport controls than many EU members. This will not change. You will still use a passport to go on holiday and you will still be allowed entry to countries in Europe. You may even get chance to skip queues by using the non--EU queues at the airport (the only point so far that is my opinion, and not necessarily a fact).

The UK economy will benefit to the tune of £billions in the first year after we leave.

Medical and science research will not simply stop. The UK pays into the EU to then get money back in the form of funding. The UK will now be in control of this money and can choose to fund whatever UK based medical, science, art or other research it chooses.

Farming will not lose money because of EU funding being cut. The UK negotiated a rebate of some monies that the UK pays to the EU, in order to subsidise UK farmers. Instead of asking for our money back, we can give it straight to farmers. No change there.

You are not voting against human rights. The EU Convention on, and European Court of Human Rights are not part of the EU. Until parliament passes a new bill of rights for the UK, these will still apply, as will precedents already passed down to UK courts from Brussels.

You are not voting to kick anyone out of the UK or block access to anyone. Neither are you voting to stop recruiting valuable European workers into things like the NHS. Like my other point about passports for travel, the UK is already outside of the Schengen zone and so migrant workers must enter the UK with a valid passport before and after June 23rd. That will not change. British borders maintain full control of who comes and goes. Should someone have the skills to apply to work in the NHS, then they will still be permitted travel and given an opportunity to apply for a job. Worst case, points based assessment, like the US, Canada and Australia use, will come into effect. The UK is likely to negotiate freedom of labour movement though, in exchange for freedom of goods movement.

You are not voting to move jobs nor production out of the UK! The EU actually helped fund the move of Ford Transit production from the UK to Turkey... Yes, the EU helped give UK jobs to people in Turkey by giving Ford a loan of £80m with very generous terms!

What you are voting for is UK sovereignty. You are voting to stay in or leave a political union of leaders and representatives that you British people did not elect. You are voting against a commission of unelected, elite men that nobody at all voted for and yet they make decisions on our behalf. You are simply voting to bring sovereignty back to Westminster, and that is all. If you worry about that because you don't like the Conservative government, look at the reality. Their majority in parliament is very slim. They have been blocked on big decisions already. You are therefore not giving sovereignty to David Cameron, but to the UK House of elected representatives. Do not be fooled by the fear campaigns that are simply run by the wealthy, who need EU money to thrive!

Think about the future, and your family's future.

Vote to leave the EU.