Gardiners New Fibredyne Cfbc Sediment/carbon Pre-Filter 20"

[Stuart Carpenter]

I played with the waste, had it almost right open, so that barely a trickle came out of clean. Still only showed 4ppm, that's after the di. 

 

[doug atkinson]

I've just filled a 14 litre bucket in 20 seconds. 

Gives me 42 lpm

That does not sound right as 4040 membrane max it can do is 6.5 litres a minute. Sound like the membrane is not seated properly 

 

[Stuart Carpenter]

That was the flow rate out of the tap. But thank you. 

 

[doug atkinson]

everything I can find pump wise is measured in LPM. anyone recommend a pump, should I need one. Spoke to the supplier, he reckons its optimum pressure is 250psi, sounds a lot.

That is very high. I presume you bought the R/O without research or did the supplier advise this system as if they did does not suit your requirements. 

Spruce has asked who the supplier is which may help in checking the specification of the membrane.

It sounds as if you have been sold a very high pressure membrane so you would require a booster pump but you need to find the spec to match the membrane.

DI Vessel is it the correct size or could be faulty. 

 

[Stuart Carpenter]

The membrane is this one.  

http://www.collinswaterproductsltd.co.uk/ourshop/prod_5995686-Hid-4040-commercial-reverse-osmosis-membrane

 

[Stuart Carpenter]

Bit of spare time, so trying to sort this. 

Water out of tap 250ppm

Water after Ro 41ppm (that's the best I can get it down to) 

 

[doug atkinson]

The membrane is this one.  

http://www.collinswaterproductsltd.co.uk/ourshop/prod_5995686-Hid-4040-commercial-reverse-osmosis-membrane

Unfortunately it's a Industrial rated high pressure membrane with a required operating pressure of 225 PSI so you would need a beast of a booster pump.

It's also advertised here 

THIS IS A HIGH FLOW MEMBRANE
WITH REDUCTION RATES OF 90% TO 98%
On both the high and low pressure membrane he has the below statement for both. Looks as if he has put the incorrect data on the high pressure one as you would not have the same results

Mains water input pressure 75psi
input water tds reading 274ppm
 
With the above parameters test results achieved are
 
production 2.7ltrs per min
output tds reading 8ppm or less

 

[Stuart Carpenter]

I have the input pressure of 75psi 

 

[spruce]

This is one of those that the theoretical answer is yes but with lots of conditions. Each pump would have to be exactly the same and run at the identical speed of the other. The casing of the second pump would need to be able to handle the extra water pressure and the inlet and outlet of each pump would need to be able to cope with the increased water flow. It would also bring into question the ability of the incoming pipe work to supply the required water necessary to accomplish the intention.

Whichever supplier said he needs 250psi deservers a kick up the rear end with a steel toe capped boot. If you are going to desalinate sea water on your ocean going yacht then they use around 600psi and their pure is around 165ppm.

Here's the suggested specs for an Axeon HF4 and HF5 membrane copied for Gardiners website in the old days.

[SIZE=12pt]HF4 Axeon membrane.[/SIZE]

• 
  [SIZE=12pt]Optimum input pressure range 80-105psi (5.3-7 BAR)[/SIZE]
  
  
  

[SIZE=12pt]HF5 Axeon membrane[/SIZE]

• 
  Optimum input pressure range 50-100psi (3..4 -7 BAR)
  
  
  

You need both water pressure and flow to run a 4040. The water pressure is a static pressure where the rate of flow is simply how much water the tap delivers in a given time. If you measure your static pressure and it reads 100psi but there is only a small orifice for the water to flow through you will not run a 4040 successfully.

We have 50psi static and 50psi at the first prefilter when the r/o is in production. but if I put the unit onto flush mode then the pressure drops to about 5psi. If the toliet is flushed the water pressure at the r/o drops to around 15psi while the toilet cistern refills.

When the wife decides she wants to put the sprinkler on the lawn, then I switch the r/o off until she is finished.

Oops! I opened my mounth too soon.

Sorry @Stuart Carpenter. Collins water sell cheap r/o's and window cleaners are attracted to cheap like moths to a candle. I have no axe to grind with Collins water but they don't sell product that is best suited to window cleaner's needs. In fact, until recently window cleaners weren't even mentioned on their website until they had a light bulb moment when they discovered that a large portion of their products were being bought by window cleaners attracted by their prices.

Unfortunately, with membranes you get what you pay for. RoMan advised me to stay away from Asian made membranes because they are poor quality for window cleaners. That was 12 years ago and that advise is still relevant today.

 

[doug atkinson]

I have the input pressure of 75psi 

Yes but he has the same wording on both membranes.

He will need to correct it on the one you have Purchased as that wording is incorrect. You need 225 PSI to obtain 98% rejection rate hence to low ppm and production you will be seeing.

 

[Stuart Carpenter]

Oops! I opened my mounth too soon.

Sorry @Stuart Carpenter. Collins water sell cheap r/o's and window cleaners are attracted to cheap like moths to a candle. I have no axe to grind with Collins water but they don't sell product that is best suited to window cleaner's needs. In fact, until recently window cleaners weren't even mentioned on their website until they had a light bulb moment when they discovered that a large portion of their products were being bought by window cleaners attracted by their prices.

Unfortunately, with membranes you get what you pay for. RoMan advised me to stay away from Asian made membranes because they are poor quality for window cleaners. That was 12 years ago and that advise is still relevant today.

Thank you for all your help. It is very much appreciated. Do you have any recommendations, based on the outputs I have. 

 

[spruce]

Thank you for all your help. It is very much appreciated. Do you have any recommendations, based on the outputs I have. 

When buying an r/o membrane you can be assured that a good quality membrane is made in the USA.

We use an Axeon HF5 with 50psi water pressure.

You need to look at genuine wfp suppliers.

www.daqua.co.uk

@doug atkinson

or

www.grippatank.co.uk

will supply you with a quality membrane. At your water pressure you might be able to get away with an HF4 which is a little cheaper.

An HF5 will be a little over twice the price of that membrane you got from Collins Water.

You aren't the first windie who has been caught with these membranes and I'm sure there will be others in the future.There was even one who was warned before he purchased one that he was on a rough road. He bought it none the less and experienced similar issues to what you are experiencing.

 

[Stuart Carpenter]

When buying an r/o membrane you can be assured that a good quality membrane is made in the USA.

We use an Axeon HF5 with 50psi water pressure.

You need to look at genuine wfp suppliers.

www.daqua.co.uk

@doug atkinson

or

www.grippatank.co.uk

will supply you with a quality membrane. At your water pressure you might be able to get away with an HF4 which is a little cheaper.

An HF5 will be a little over twice the price of that membrane you got from Collins Water.

You aren't the first windie who has been caught with these membranes and I'm sure there will be others in the future.There was even one who was warned before he purchased one that he was on a rough road. He bought it none the less and experienced similar issues to what you are experiencing.

Hi spruce, thank you. I paid for a full install to be put into my van, this was the membrane that was supplied. I've contacted the installer who has basically said it must be my fault, due to non flushing or having the tap closed (the whole thing has had approx 2000 litres in total through it) I'll check the system you speak about. Thanks again for your help. 

 

[spruce]

Hi spruce, thank you. I paid for a full install to be put into my van, this was the membrane that was supplied. I've contacted the installer who has basically said it must be my fault, due to non flushing or having the tap closed (the whole thing has had approx 2000 litres in total through it) I'll check the system you speak about. Thanks again for your help. 

I'm sorry about your experience. Unfortunately using cheap substitutes is a known practice through out many industries.

We have several Citroen vehicles in our family and on the odd occassion they go to a Citroen garage; not the main dealers workshops, we get charged Citroen part prices for the parts that were purchased and delivered by one of the local motor factors. The most recent was a lack of power on my Citroen Relay work van. I had replaced a couple of parts which usually show the same symptoms up, but that didn't help. Its a 2004 model and its one of those manufactured before the deadline to 'open' the obd2 port to after market scanners. Citroen Lexia is the only system that that read fault codes so instead of messing around any longer I sent it in.

It ended up to be the MAF airflow sensor. They fitted a cheap after market sensor and charged me the Citroen part price, even quoting the Citroen part number on their invoice. That sensor is around 5 times more expensive from Citroen than what I would pay over the counter retail. And a workshop would get a discount on that part from a motor factors.

 

[Iron Giant]

Hi spruce, thank you. I paid for a full install to be put into my van, this was the membrane that was supplied. I've contacted the installer who has basically said it must be my fault, due to non flushing or having the tap closed (the whole thing has had approx 2000 litres in total through it) I'll check the system you speak about. Thanks again for your help. 

It would be good to know who installed your system so other lads aren't caught out, I don't want to set off a witch hunt but no one wants to be out of pocket as a new membrane is £100's, I would phone @doug atkinson  of http://daqua.co.uk this morning explain who you are and this post and he will best advise which membrane to buy for your longterm needs