How to get good staff?

[Dave Shaw]

95% of them would be classed as unskilled labourers. 

And how many of them did you pay more than £10/15 per hour?

Tbh I also think £10 is a little shy but only because I’m comparing it to what I earn. Thing is I’ve worked bloody hard to get to where I am and not just turned up like an employee. Also there are many on a lot less so why feel guilty when it’s the going rate? Ideally once my prices are were I want them to be I’d like him to be on

£100 a day for no more than 5 hours work so £20 per hour if you like. That’s my plan and I’m gettin their slowly. I’m there financially and just need to get my prices up to speed to cut our working hours down whilst still taking the same. Life’s all about making things easier from here on in.

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[Dave Shaw]

Turnover is vanity, profit is sanity

Cash is king


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Too true. Vat reg is now 85000 with a possibility of another rise in the future. You can comfortably do 350 a day, five days a week for 48 weeks of the year. It’s perfectly doable to have one employee and still make a good crust for yourself without breaking the barrier.


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People assume the best thing to do is employ to grow their business because they are snowed under with work, but I agree it's not the answer for everyone and it's better to re-evaluate a business and take a real hard look as to the best way to progress a business and maximize turnover and profit. 

Why not do both, put your prices up and employ. That way you can earn more whilst someone else is doing it for you.


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[Iron Giant]

Too true. Vat reg is now 85000 with a possibility of another rise in the future. You can comfortably do 350 a day, five days a week for 48 weeks of the year. It’s perfectly doable to have one employee and still make a good crust for yourself without breaking the barrier.



Why not do both, put your prices up and employ. That way you can earn more whilst someone else is doing it for you.


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After 18 years of working on my it would do my head in, Now down to the nitty gritty 1 employee will mean I would need to buy a  need a bigger van and extra gear including bigger tank reel etc plus wages including holiday pay, sick pay and pension if I was turning over £350 a day with an employee there is most of the extra turnover gone and in the cold light of day I know for a fact I wouldn't be much better off either financially or mentally 

Plus add in the fact that I know I am the highest price window cleaner in my area my prices can't go much higher and I am charging quite a bit more than you ?

 

[Part Timer]

And how many of them did you pay more than £10/15 per hour?

Tbh I also think £10 is a little shy but only because I’m comparing it to what I earn. Thing is I’ve worked bloody hard to get to where I am and not just turned up like an employee. Also there are many on a lot less so why feel guilty when it’s the going rate? Ideally once my prices are were I want them to be I’d like him to be on

£100 a day for no more than 5 hours work so £20 per hour if you like. That’s my plan and I’m gettin their slowly. I’m there financially and just need to get my prices up to speed to cut our working hours down whilst still taking the same. Life’s all about making things easier from here on in.

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In 1997 they were paid £5 an hour, time and a half for overtime and double time on a Sunday. They were also on a bonus system. The average house price then was circa £100k, and a damn site less up here. 

Whilst I appreciate it is hard to pay someone £10+ I think the vast majority on here have got into window-cleaning to earn a decent wage I find it strange that they would put someone else through what they didn't like, i.e. hard work for relatively low pay. I don't need people now saying I'm unrealistic as this is my opinion, if I couldn't pay someone a good wage I wouldn't employ them. No one forces you to take on work that doesn't allow you to pay a decent wage. 

 

[Dave Shaw]

After 18 years of working on my it would do my head in, Now down to the nitty gritty 1 employee will mean I would need to buy a  need a bigger van and extra gear including bigger tank reel etc plus wages including holiday pay, sick pay and pension if I was turning over £350 a day with an employee there is most of the extra turnover gone and in the cold light of day I know for a fact I wouldn't be much better off either financially or mentally 

Plus add in the fact that I know I am the highest price window cleaner in my area my prices can't go much higher and I am charging quite a bit more than you [emoji6]

Fair play and each to their own as everyone has their limits. I’m thinking for the future though and when like yourself nearly 20 years into working for myself I don’t wanna be sloggin it out 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. I’m just pointing out to the op the positives of employing as imo in the long run they far outweigh the negatives and there’s plenty that I still haven’t mentioned. If you can earn more on your own than with an employee then fair play but how much can you earn when your not working at all? That will be a big fat zero. Like I said I’m not greedy and I’m financially happy. Now I want to start getting my time back and you can’t fully achieve that on your own.


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[Dave Shaw]

In 1997 they were paid £5 an hour, time and a half for overtime and double time on a Sunday. They were also on a bonus system. The average house price then was circa £100k, and a damn site less up here. 
Whilst I appreciate it is hard to pay someone £10+ I think the vast majority on here have got into window-cleaning to earn a decent wage I find it strange that they would put someone else through what they didn't like, i.e. hard work for relatively low pay. I don't need people now saying I'm unrealistic as this is my opinion, if I couldn't pay someone a good wage I wouldn't employ them. No one forces you to take on work that doesn't allow you to pay a decent wage. 

No need to lecture me on minimum wages as I was doing that for years. (And very happy). Some people have more get up and go and want more whilst others are happy just cruising through life. It just depends on which bracket you fall into. I’d love to pay my lad more £££ but sometimes you have to wake up and smell the coffee. As been mentioned on here before opinions and “what I would dos”are useless to the op compared to real life situations.


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[Part Timer]

No need to lecture me on minimum wages

I'm not trying to lecture anyone all I'm doing is expressing my opinion. The OP was asking how much to pay someone. He also said that even with himself and a full time employee he wouldn't get anywhere near VAT threshold. To me that means his prices are way to low so he would be better upping his prices and losing the poorly paid work. 

We now have Amazon in London, others to follow, that are paying £10+ an hour. 

 

[Dave Shaw]

Fair play and each to their own as everyone has their limits. I’m thinking for the future though and when like yourself nearly 20 years into working for myself I don’t wanna be sloggin it out 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. I’m just pointing out to the op the positives of employing as imo in the long run they far outweigh the negatives and there’s plenty that I still haven’t mentioned. If you can earn more on your own than with an employee then fair play but how much can you earn when your not working at all? That will be a big fat zero. Like I said I’m not greedy and I’m financially happy. Now I want to start getting my time back and you can’t fully achieve that on your own.


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I do agree with you that with the right prices and on the basis that your never gonna go over the vat ref threshold then it’s certainly possible for one man to earn the same if not more than with an employee but that’s ok for the now and I’m thinking for the future. In a few years from now when your hoping that gardeners brings out an even lighter pole just so you can manage your workload I’ll be sat at home with a cup of tea enjoying life.


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[DJT]

There is a chap called josh latimer. He is based in america and does a pod cast called quick talk podcast. He gives a lot of business advice on cleaning companies, how to grow, when to grow etc etc. I've found it very helpful in the past. Something to listen to than the radio ?

 

[Dave Shaw]

I'm not trying to lecture anyone all I'm doing is expressing my opinion. The OP was asking how much to pay someone. He also said that even with himself and a full time employee he wouldn't get anywhere near VAT threshold. To me that means his prices are way to low so he would be better upping his prices and losing the poorly paid work. 
We now have Amazon in London, others to follow, that are paying £10+ an hour. 

He was asking how to get good staff and just mentioned his giving wage which led to the onslaught of criticism. Everyone’s entitled to their opinion but it means nothing without the experience to back it up. I don’t mean to sound disrespectful as I’ve always been taught to respect my elders and I know you’ve a lot more experience in employing than I have. I do have a lot of experience in being an employee in our industry so know how an employee would like to be treated which includes wages. I also saw the article on amazon and of a big company has basic wages that start at £10 per hour then why would you expect any smaller business’s to be different?


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[Part Timer]

I do agree with you that with the right prices and on the basis that your never gonna go over the vat ref threshold then it’s certainly possible for one man to earn the same if not more than with an employee but that’s ok for the now and I’m thinking for the future. In a few years from now when your hoping that gardeners brings out an even lighter pole just so you can manage your workload I’ll be sat at home with a cup of tea enjoying life.


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? I'm doing this for fun now, don't need to earn a penny from window cleaning. I do it as a challenge, to see if I can build a business in an environment, service industry rather than manufacturing,  I've never worked in before. I currently use a CLX27 with a 45cm flocked brush so I don't think I'll be concerned about waiting for a lighter brush and pole. The likes of Amazon, again in my opinion, are the jobs people take because they can't get any better and have resigned themselves to a boring humdrum life. Wouldn't personally want to employ someone with that outlook on life, so again in my opinion a small business trying to acquire good staff would need to pay more.

I think you will find you said "all this talk of paying them more is nonsense and is probs from people that's never employed themselves as a window cleaner" It is this post I quoted you saying I had and disagreed, am I not allowed a different opinion. I'm also struggling to find anywhere we're I've given you this "onslaught of criticism"

 

[chris clean]

? I'm doing this for fun now, don't need to earn a penny from window cleaning. I do it as a challenge, to see if I can build a business in an environment, service industry rather than manufacturing,  I've never worked in before. I currently use a CLX27 with a 45cm flocked brush so I don't think I'll be concerned about waiting for a lighter brush and pole. The likes of Amazon, again in my opinion, are the jobs people take because they can't get any better and have resigned themselves to a boring humdrum life. Wouldn't personally want to employ someone with that outlook on life, so again in my opinion a small business trying to acquire good staff would need to pay more.

I think you will find you said "all this talk of paying them more is nonsense and is probs from people that's never employed themselves as a window cleaner" It is this post I quoted you saying I had and disagreed, am I not allowed a different opinion. I'm also struggling to find anywhere we're I've given you this "onslaught of criticism"

@Part Timer I know exactly what you meant and most the lads on here would know. Whether we agree or not isn't the point the point of a firum forum so we can all get other ideas and take what you want out of it. There are a few on here now that ask a question them throw toys out of the pram when people give answers they don't like or agree with!  My view is you get What you pay for yeah of course you will find people who will work for only 10 quid an hour and if that's all they want out of life then fair enough but they are gonna be people without any ambition! Also gotta mention @DaveShaw his line about onslaught of criticism!! Come on we are all adults. Someone giving a different view is not an onslaught lol are you that sensitive at the pub or with mates if they don't agree ?

 

[Dave Shaw]

? I'm doing this for fun now, don't need to earn a penny from window cleaning. I do it as a challenge, to see if I can build a business in an environment, service industry rather than manufacturing,  I've never worked in before. I currently use a CLX27 with a 45cm flocked brush so I don't think I'll be concerned about waiting for a lighter brush and pole. The likes of Amazon, again in my opinion, are the jobs people take because they can't get any better and have resigned themselves to a boring humdrum life. Wouldn't personally want to employ someone with that outlook on life, so again in my opinion a small business trying to acquire good staff would need to pay more.
I think you will find you said "all this talk of paying them more is nonsense and is probs from people that's never employed themselves as a window cleaner" It is this post I quoted you saying I had and disagreed, am I not allowed a different opinion. I'm also struggling to find anywhere we're I've given you this "onslaught of criticism"

Think you’ve got the wrong end of the stick there pal. Where in that post did I mention you? It was a reply to iron giant and for some reason it quoted myself.


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[mention=2712]Part Timer[/mention] I know exactly what you meant and most the lads on here would know. Whether we agree or not isn't the point the point of a firum forum so we can all get other ideas and take what you want out of it. There are a few on here now that ask a question them throw toys out of the pram when people give answers they don't like or agree with!  My view is you get What you pay for yeah of course you will find people who will work for only 10 quid an hour and if that's all they want out of life then fair enough but they are gonna be people without any ambition! Also gotta mention [mention=5847]DaveShaw[/mention] his line about onslaught of criticism!! Come on we are all adults. Someone giving a different view is not an onslaught lol are you that sensitive at the pub or with mates if they don't agree [emoji23]

I take it your an employer then Chris? How much do you pay your lads if you don’t mind me asking?


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[Teaboy]

No but those of us that do, don’t know what we are on about!!!

I’ve said loads of times in my opinion what’s the most optimum way to run a business and just get told I don’t know what I’m on about or arrogant lol ??‍??‍


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[chris clean]

No but those of us that do, don’t know what we are on about!!!

I’ve said loads of times in my opinion what’s the most optimum way to run a business and just get told I don’t know what I’m on about or arrogant lol ??‍??‍


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Yes lots of peeps not liking hearing what other have to think!

 

[THL4KEL]

Everyone has had different experiences, I used to work in the Oil and Gas industry off shore and I worked with was plenty of people who were payed extremely high rates that were bone idle.. High pay does not always equate to a great employee..

 

[Dave Shaw]

Yes lots of peeps not liking hearing what other have to think!

It’s not about not likingwhat they are hearing. Just merely pointing out the difference between opinion and the real world.


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[Dave Shaw]

Everyone has had different experiences, I used to work in the Oil and Gas industry off shore and I worked with was plenty of people who were payed extremely high rates that were bone idle.. High pay does not always equate to a great employee..

Exactly. And same goes that just because you are on low pay it doesn’t mean your gonna get a bad worker. Some of the best workers I know are on low wages. Some people can get complacent when they are on high pay and think they are better than the job. There’s a big difference between what you think you are worth and what a certain job is worth and if you want to be on good money as a window cleaner then you have to work for yourself.


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[Iron Giant]

Fair play and each to their own as everyone has their limits. I’m thinking for the future though and when like yourself nearly 20 years into working for myself I don’t wanna be sloggin it out 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. I’m just pointing out to the op the positives of employing as imo in the long run they far outweigh the negatives and there’s plenty that I still haven’t mentioned. If you can earn more on your own than with an employee then fair play but how much can you earn when your not working at all? That will be a big fat zero. Like I said I’m not greedy and I’m financially happy. Now I want to start getting my time back and you can’t fully achieve that on your own.


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We all find a balance we are happy with as our own experiences and situations will determine what is right for each of us, But I do think that if someone is destined to employ then they will for it's never been a real consideration and don't slog on for 8 hrs a day unless the weather is against me which is rare. I had a decent talk with my accountant a few weeks ago now due to my increasing turnover and talked through various options so I know were I want and need to be and I am far from cruising through life.

I do think anyone considering employing needs to be fully aware of the tax implications and of course for 1 employee the size of a round would need to be doubled as there is a long journey before you someone might get were they need to be, £85,000 per annum turnover minus 1 decent employee wage and business running costs, tax and ni then profit would be around 45-48k it's some serious money earned but its a big chunk of money of the doey eyed £85,000 and as with all things in life there is a balance and we each have our own 

 

[Dave Shaw]

We all find a balance we are happy with as our own experiences and situations will determine what is right for each of us, But I do think that if someone is destined to employ then they will for it's never been a real consideration and don't slog on for 8 hrs a day unless the weather is against me which is rare. I had a decent talk with my accountant a few weeks ago now due to my increasing turnover and talked through various options so I know were I want and need to be and I am far from cruising through life.

I do think anyone considering employing needs to be fully aware of the tax implications and of course for 1 employee the size of a round would need to be doubled as there is a long journey before you someone might get were they need to be, £85,000 per annum turnover minus 1 decent employee wage and business running costs, tax and ni then profit would be around 45-48k it's some serious money earned but its a big chunk of money of the doey eyed £85,000 and as with all things in life there is a balance and we each have our own 

Well put. Like you say it all depends on what you want and everyone wants different things.


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[Iron Giant]

Well put. Like you say it all depends on what you want and everyone wants different things.


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I also don't have kids and don't need to knock off early to play on the PS4 [emoji23]

County Durham Lad