Immersion Problem

[Den]

 

[dyson123]

I used a large Stillsons Wrench to hold the inside backnut. It will hold a circular nut providing it is set spot-on and used the correct way round (rotated towards the Jaws) . It wasn't easy as I could only get one hand and arm in the tank. It is crucial to set the wrench adjustment correctly. The tolerance for this is very small. I set the adjustment to the back nut before I tried fitting the immersion and i practiced till I had it sorted in my head. I had also thought about using an adjustable strap wrench (the type used for oil filters). But that was even more fiddly to use one handed in the tank.

This is why I've always said "Make sure you can reach the immersion from the filler cap, and do a dry rehearsal with everything ready to hand, before cutting the hole). It's also another reason I chose a flat tank, as I was able to fit the immersion just off the bottom. I agree it seems ridiculous that they make a backing nut that goes inside a tank without spanner-flats. However now it's fitted you might find you can get a turn with a Stillsons but it probably won't be easy.

Glad you got it done and thanks very much for the update. ??

It was a Stillsons I used to hold the backnut, very handy ?

My next job is finding a way of pumping the water around the tank overnight so that it gets an even heat.

 

[Den]

It was a Stillsons I used to hold the backnut, very handy ?

My next job is finding a way of pumping the water around the tank overnight so that it gets an even heat.

I have a small submersible 240v pump Inside my tank with 1” pipe pumping from immersion heater end to the other end. 
also use a mechanical timer the turns on/off every 15 mins so water completely circulates on over night. 

 

[JohnDoeWindows]

Anyone heard of any drop in immersion heaters? Don't know if I quite trust myself drilling a hole in my tank ?

 

[Den]

Anyone heard of any drop in immersion heaters? Don't know if I quite trust myself drilling a hole in my tank ?

They don’t makes sense to me as you would need to keep lid undone which would release all the heat? 

 

[Pjj]

Anyone heard of any drop in immersion heaters? Don't know if I quite trust myself drilling a hole in my tank ?

It needs to be at the bottom of the tank as hot water rises so the bottom would be cold all the time .

 

[Davy G]

It was a Stillsons I used to hold the backnut, very handy ?

My next job is finding a way of pumping the water around the tank overnight so that it gets an even heat.

There shouldn't be a need to use a pump for circulation. I've never had a problem without one. In my case it would be adding a totally pointless expense and complication for no advantage whatsoever. I fitted mine as low as sensibly possible in the corner under the filler cap

This means that the water being heated rises in this corner (this can be easily seen by removing the cap and watching the bubbles and water rising and spreading across the top). This water is replaced by cooler water moving in from lower down. This is the circulation for the whole tank. My outlet is in the bottom of the diagonally opposite corner. This means that the water used for work is the least heated as it's the lowest in the thermal layers once the immersion is off. This in turn means that I get water which is heated to a good temperature throughout the day, as the water level/thermal layers descend through the day. I heat to 60~65c and the water at the brush is still plenty hot enough for me when I finish. Last time I checked it was still well over 50c in the tank near the end of a very cold work day.

Anyone heard of any drop in immersion heaters? Don't know if I quite trust myself drilling a hole in my tank ?

Pond or fish tank heaters but you will only get slightly heated water, I'd have thought.

 

[Den]

There shouldn't be a need to use a pump for circulation. I've never had a problem without one. In my case it would be adding a totally pointless expense and complication for no advantage whatsoever. I fitted mine as low as sensibly possible in the corner under the filler cap

This means that the water being heated rises in this corner (this can be easily seen by removing the cap and watching the bubbles and water rising and spreading across the top). This water is replaced by cooler water moving in from lower down. This is the circulation for the whole tank. My outlet is in the bottom of the diagonally opposite corner. This means that the water used for work is the least heated as it's the lowest in the thermal layers once the immersion is off. This in turn means that I get water which is heated to a good temperature throughout the day, as the water level/thermal layers descend through the day. I heat to 60~65c and the water at the brush is still plenty hot enough for me when I finish. Last time I checked it was still well over 50c in the tank near the end of a very cold work day.

Pond or fish tank heaters but you will only get slightly heated water, I'd have thought.

Depending on what tank In my case there is lots of recesses for built in pump,controller,Di bottle plus and battery also my driveway as a very slight slope, it slopes towards the element so the water natural falls away from the opposite end. 
honestly noticed a improvement by using pump with my tank but it’s is a very usual shape. 

 

[Davy G]

Depending on what tank In my case there is lots of recesses for built in pump,controller,Di bottle plus and battery also my driveway as a very slight slope, it slopes towards the element so the water natural falls away from the opposite end. 
honestly noticed a improvement by using pump with my tank but it’s is a very usual shape. 

Yes I remember you saying that the tank was unusually shaped. Mine is a simple one with crude baffles shaped in the moulding. These don't impede the circulation. ??

 

[Den]

Yes I remember you saying that the tank was unusually shaped. Mine is a simple one with crude baffles shaped in the moulding. These don't impede the circulation. ??

I forgot about my baffle shape as well lol.

where the battery sits inside the side of the my tank Is a small part where above where I run the hose, ideally my heating element would be better on the opposite end to the lid as the reservoir is much large that side but would have been very difficult to install that side. 

 

[Davy G]

I forgot about my baffle shape as well lol.

where the battery sits inside the side of the my tank Is a small part where above where I run the hose, ideally my heating element would be better on the opposite end to the lid as the reservoir is much large that side but would have been very difficult to install that side. 

I agree. A nightmare if you had a problem as well. ?

 

[ched999uk]

It was a Stillsons I used to hold the backnut, very handy ?

My next job is finding a way of pumping the water around the tank overnight so that it gets an even heat.

You could use your normal pump and hose reel on a timer. That way the warm water would also be circulated round your reel.

I have a 4 channel sonoff controller similar to the one in the link only older, that allows loop timers to be set. So every 30 mins it could run the pump for say 2 mins.  It is wifi activated so needs to be close enough to connect to your home wifi and it runs off 12v with 10Amp relay contacts. I use a single channel one on my booster pump so it runs for 45mins then has 15mins of 'rest'. 

If you are competent with electrics it could be perfect as it could also be used to control the immersion heater although I would be inclined to use an additional relay for an immersion heater rated at 15Amps or so just so you know you are covered.

 

[Den]

You could use your normal pump and hose reel on a timer. That way the warm water would also be circulated round your reel.

I have a 4 channel sonoff controller similar to the one in the link only older, that allows loop timers to be set. So every 30 mins it could run the pump for say 2 mins.  It is wifi activated so needs to be close enough to connect to your home wifi and it runs off 12v with 10Amp relay contacts. I use a single channel one on my booster pump so it runs for 45mins then has 15mins of 'rest'. 

If you are competent with electrics it could be perfect as it could also be used to control the immersion heater although I would be inclined to use an additional relay for an immersion heater rated at 15Amps or so just so you know you are covered.

Great Idea but you have to run an extension lead to heat the element so really easy to use a 240v pump, it don’t get your hose up to heat but after cleaning the first house it’s circulated by then. And in my case the hose is installed on my tank isn’t really cold. 

 

[Deleted member 7446]

Update. After taking delivery of a new tank I originally tried to use one of the two part mechanical flanges that clamp the tank and then immersion screws into the flange. 
I couldn’t get this to work though as the part that sits inside the tank had nothing to grip on to with a wrench to stop it spinning whilst outer part was tightened up.

I ended up just using a mechanical flange backnut on the inside that was very thick, this allowed me to hold it with an ultra wide (70mm) jawed wrench whilst my helper screwed the immersion in.

The tank walls are so thick that you’re literally only catching one thread of the immersion.

Anyway it’s holding water and I’m delighted to finally solve my issue.

It’s definitely so much easier to do with the tank out of the van, at least it was in my case. Can see it being easier in the van with a flat tank or in a bigger van.

I’ve no idea how this can be done without the use of a wrench to hold the backnut inside the tank. I’m no weakling but holding it by hand whilst the immersion was tightened up was just impossible.

Hopefully this will help someone

With a back nut inside the tank just use an immersion wrench and jubilee clip the wrench handle onto a bar. One man job to hold one still and turn another 

 

[RavashingRichie]

It was a Stillsons I used to hold the backnut, very handy ?

My next job is finding a way of pumping the water around the tank overnight so that it gets an even heat.

8 used to think that, but with the immersion heater sat that low all your water will be hot pretty much all day in that size tank I wouldn’t worry about it mate