Leisure battery

[Daniel Perkins]

Cheers lads appreciate the help, I will go over everything tomorrow. I'll recharge tonight, clean and check everything tomorrow. Unfortunately electrics is not my speciality. I've had that flashing bat for over a week now and just kept working with it. I didn't charge this battery as often as I should truth be known, this is the first issue i've had with this system in 18 months.. of course would have to be when everything is closed ffs. I don't think most people around my estate have even heard of a leisure battery so can't ask around.

If still the same tomorrow i will probably have to give WCW a call and try and explain it over the phone which i hate but no other choice. Other than that I'll have to wait until Tayna Batteries deliver the new one.

 

[spruce]

Cheers lads appreciate the help, I will go over everything tomorrow. I'll recharge tonight, clean and check everything tomorrow. Unfortunately electrics is not my speciality. I've had that flashing bat for over a week now and just kept working with it. I didn't charge this battery as often as I should truth be known, this is the first issue i've had with this system in 18 months.. of course would have to be when everything is closed ffs. I don't think most people around my estate have even heard of a leisure battery so can't ask around.

If still the same tomorrow i will probably have to give WCW a call and try and explain it over the phone which i hate but no other choice. Other than that I'll have to wait until Tayna Batteries deliver the new one.

Do you have a multimeter? You know that the controller is telling you that the battery voltage is less than 11.5v when its starts to flash BAT. If you had a multimeter you could test the battery voltage at the battery terminals with the pump working. If the multimeter registers more than 12 volt  when your controller is flashing BAT then there is a wiring issue between the battery and controller.

On our Varistreams U is the code for low voltage. Each time we have experienced the U its been either a flat battery (son in laws favourite trick when he worked for us) or a replacement battery solved the problem.

 

[Davy G]

Do you have a multimeter? You know that the controller is telling you that the battery voltage is less than 11.5v when its starts to flash BAT. If you had a multimeter you could test the battery voltage at the battery terminals with the pump working. If the multimeter registers more than 12 volt  when your controller is flashing BAT then there is a wiring issue between the battery and controller.

On our Varistreams U is the code for low voltage. Each time we have experienced the U its been either a flat battery (son in laws favourite trick when he worked for us) or a replacement battery solved the problem.

That's a good suggestion. They aren't expensive. They come with instructions and are easy to use.

 

[spruce]

That's a good suggestion. They aren't expensive. They come with instructions and are easy to use.

I honestly believe they are an important part of our kit. Not quite as important as a TDS meter, but not far off.

 

[Davy G]

I honestly believe they are an important part of our kit. Not quite as important as a TDS meter, but not far off.

I agree. I didn't have one until having a discussion with your good self a couple of years back about my not mains charging my two leisure batteries because the SCR does it all. You asked me for the voltage readings after driving and in the morning before starting. I wanted to be able to give an accurate answer so I bought one at the local car accessory shop. I think it was less than £20. As you say it's not needed as often as a Tds meter but it's still a very useful piece of equipment, and interesting to use. Worth getting one with a thermocoupling for testing the temperature for anyone using or contemplating using heated water.

 

[spruce]

I agree. I didn't have one until having a discussion with your good self a couple of years back about my not mains charging my two leisure batteries because the SCR does it all. You asked me for the voltage readings after driving and in the morning before starting. I wanted to be able to give an accurate answer so I bought one at the local car accessory shop. I think it was less than £20. As you say it's not needed as often as a Tds meter but it's still a very useful piece of equipment, and interesting to use. Worth getting one with a thermocoupling for testing the temperature for anyone using or contemplating using heated water.

One of those infra red thermometer/temperature laser guns is something I've also been contemplating for a while now.

 

[Daniel Perkins]

Do you have a multimeter? You know that the controller is telling you that the battery voltage is less than 11.5v when its starts to flash BAT. If you had a multimeter you could test the battery voltage at the battery terminals with the pump working. If the multimeter registers more than 12 volt  when your controller is flashing BAT then there is a wiring issue between the battery and controller.

On our Varistreams U is the code for low voltage. Each time we have experienced the U its been either a flat battery (son in laws favourite trick when he worked for us) or a replacement battery solved the problem.

That sounds like a great idea and something and I probably should have in the kit. Just ordered one there fairly cheap too. I suppose it's only when things go wrong you need to think of these things. Lovely stuff thanks again. 

 

[johnny bravo]

ive had a Numax battery from the very start , same battery from near 7 years.  paid around £80.    its done well.     still have crocodile clips on it as from when I started.  haha.       

same bag of 25ltr resin also.     about a 3rd left.     Hardly use a di.      pure around 003.    

 

[spruce]

ive had a Numax battery from the very start , same battery from near 7 years.  paid around £80.    its done well.     still have crocodile clips on it as from when I started.  haha.       

same bag of 25ltr resin also.     about a 3rd left.     Hardly use a di.      pure around 003.    

Yep. We still have an 85 amph Numax here which is 8 years old. I'm not sure it has the capacity it began life with but it will still last the day.

 

[Stevieboy]

suppose as everything is closed, usually i would just pop over to Halfords and grab one

Why not? Halfords are open. 

 

[Part Timer]

Yep. We still have an 85 amph Numax here which is 8 years old. I'm not sure it has the capacity it began life with but it will still last the day.

But knowing you you've probably changed the terminals 3 times replaced the lead plates a couple and put a new outer casing on. It will be a bit like Triggers brush ?

 

[Daniel Perkins]

Why not? Halfords are open. 

Not over in Dublin unfortunately, everything been locked down for 6 or 7 weeks so I have to wait for stuff to be delivered which is back logged.

 

[Daniel Perkins]

Charged up system, cleaned everything and checked connectors and with my very limited knowledge of electrics I can't see anything stand out. Battery is at 12.7v  so technically the controller should not be be still showing the flashing error? Has anyone ever had a controller go kaput?

Multi meter will be delivered quicker than the new battery so I will check the terminal voltage against the controller when that arrives. Very frustrating

 

[spruce]

Charged up system, cleaned everything and checked connectors and with my very limited knowledge of electrics I can't see anything stand out. Battery is at 12.7v  so technically the controller should not be be still showing the flashing error?

Has anyone ever had a controller go kaput?
Lets ask @Ian Sheppard for his take on this.

Multi meter will be delivered quicker than the new battery so I will check the terminal voltage against the controller when that arrives. Very frustrating

You need to let the battery rest for 4 hours and then check the voltage.

12.7v is near enough fully charged if the battery has rested.

The voltage reading on a fully charged battery under load will drop. It may drop off to just above 12v if the load is heavy. The bat code will be triggered if the battery under load drops to below 11.5v. But the controller should still work although its displaying the bat code.

We have found several issues at the fuse. The terminals inside the corrode and cause a resistance in the line.

 

[spruce]

Not being critical but try cleaning up you battery terminals and apply a light smear of grease they look a bit corroded and dry , this will help with current flow , remove the fittings and grease up the terminals  , this might help it always did with cars years ago . 

I'm going to revisit what @Pjj advised @Daniel Perkins.

If you haven't done this, remove those cables from the battery terminals and clean up each surface with fine sandpaper or emery tape/cloth. This includes the battery terminals, the battery posts and the underneath of the screw heads.

Aluminum and steel react with each other and corrode over time. Its the same issue that Landrover owners have. The aluminum panels react with the metal frame so they need to put a barrier between the metal (insulator) to reduce this. You should do this one side at a time. If you can get some conductive grease great, but if not put it all back dry and smear some grease or vaseline over the top until you can get some electrical conductive grease.

I'm also had a closer look at that fuse holder. It looks like a snap lock unit. They can cause problems. I prefer the all in one fuse holder.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Inline-Car-Fuse-Blade-Holder-30Amp-12V-Splash-Robinson-K265/170976134151?epid=25026727171&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item27cef8c407:g:NvoAAOSwtGNZzh9k&enc=AQAEAAACcIQvEcHUrT7nmUC3yY5qbPyaBN1nJEDYW8MyypsJPgXKNJpkvJd843sBLRdhZ0zmMGPypzgkZHePrRVdb0UAJnOCwnRD3lm6kuH1twlmnIk%2FRPii0ndRBiKlEw%2FrcQ5JSCltQJMDPxm6FUyRZtI25h9hpdT5YHkXXiNBxv8ZxQiZLD3R28OADXZSKmmFJ8l31cVeE9silerAFmC6K6M90iTr%2By6N%2FGIYLc8HcHtMIbg8sE7eQOIYbEwq4pCKRnyRtDNUOdqT%2FNyyQsohFYZT%2FXU2zCiCuXQWyTNa5hFEl2qzaGY6PVPCt%2FHt3JW1mojDGevh0VICLOYJR9sHWzSeGfh4L7PqdGjYax2BcqgrINxNhrGWhYaLrWDDMvMabvyl%2BkERU%2BCQHrGEJCay%2FyZov60F8TbWbdpXrOy4UkeDn%2BIztdola%2BvGECMUIacX0EVBqzc%2FlKy3eqwJe8%2F84ieyxyWtoQDpg2fFaHJdODZo0hlyohve5ujrmOCRIs2cm0Z2N824FD5Ma2apop7%2BBXSZejspHR5BPM7pGpytk3vrv56GNHrU7PmT8i9EzrPYOdG5USyhTZ%2BbD9%2F89GCjLAKmkXtyY2H2Epz%2BhUvkyrwgDRhRYhp2MS1WKYHrbnX5BaJpYnXV9p%2BXm%2BqIcZEJ5o5hKC2m6zGquDIAN2joq75g%2BfrznjYTefGvoKDQjtfCyLLdL4oCDVbOCfA3AeadaMfi%2BW3FI8fjNd7uFXq36M14vW%2BY1lsIj3TNZzlnjkPdVyAQ6Rgxw2m%2Bw5gjD7fFvsTr9tCgbCpCmsDkDrPWsjgB8%2FhszPDW8XJJx%2FVAvqgAfN6Xsg%3D%3D&checksum=17097613415110f1e5e024ce4bda84a6ec18db624837

You also have the option of connecting your controller up to your van battery and seeing if this solves the problem. Any 2 core cable above 10 amps will do to try it but do make sure you get the polarity right.

Maybe you have a set of long jumper cables so you can connect your controller to the starter battery.

 

[NoName]

Daniel - I've just replaced my battery a few weeks back (numax xv31mf 105ah from tanya fast delivery ? ) so it was brand new...noticed the volt on the controller just kept dropping - after a few days 'Batt'. - I took off the bat lead clamps cleaned them as they had a white deposit (salt) on them - used fine sandpaper, until I got a nice shinny metal on the inside of the clamps - (terminals on the bat were obviously new so still shinny) when I put the clamp connectors back on the bat I tighten them to what I thought was 'tight' - then tried to 'wiggle' the clamp - it did still move a bit - so needed to retighten the clamp surprisingly a couple of more full 'turns' until the clamps were rock solid on the bat terminals - This sorted it - bat has played nicely ever since - so for my issue would underline the really important point Pjj made - 'clean as a whistle' terminals AND inside of clamps and then grease to prevent deposits building up again.

I've wondered for a few years now whether it's worth having a brand new backup battery sat in my 'spare kit collection' - as getting the right spec bat can mean a few days - hence lost time/hassle - and for a 'ton' seems like an 'investment'?

Any one else actually do this and have a spare leisure bat - is that a sensible contingency 'spare' to have?
(I noticed previously that the ideal spec for our setups often aren't stocked by the car stockist sheds - hence you might be tempted to buy one that looks close enough but may not be optimal -hence storing up future more battery 'issues' which leads to a vicious cycle of always getting a less than 'optimal' bat in a rush)

 

[Ian Sheppard]

Hi Daniel. Once you get the new battery it will be interesting see if the flickering screen issues clears up. As the system is 18 months old Im guessing the battery is about the same age. Over time the batteries ability to hold a charge reduces. This can mean that after charging an older battery appears to be charged but then once under load from a pump the voltage falls away quickly. This would be the sign of a worn battery if it is not holding charge very well.

If the controller problem persists with the new battery then something else is causing the problem. at 18 months old the controller would be out of its manufacturer warranty period. However if you sent it back directly to Spring we would happily have a look at it and advise before carrying out any repair work.

Cheers

 

[spruce]

Daniel - I've just replaced my battery a few weeks back (numax xv31mf 105ah from tanya fast delivery ? ) so it was brand new...noticed the volt on the controller just kept dropping - after a few days 'Batt'. - I took off the bat lead clamps cleaned them as they had a white deposit (salt) on them - used fine sandpaper, until I got a nice shinny metal on the inside of the clamps - (terminals on the bat were obviously new so still shinny) when I put the clamp connectors back on the bat I tighten them to what I thought was 'tight' - then tried to 'wiggle' the clamp - it did still move a bit - so needed to retighten the clamp surprisingly a couple of more full 'turns' until the clamps were rock solid on the bat terminals - This sorted it - bat has played nicely ever since - so for my issue would underline the really important point Pjj made - 'clean as a whistle' terminals AND inside of clamps and then grease to prevent deposits building up again.

I've wondered for a few years now whether it's worth having a brand new backup battery sat in my 'spare kit collection' - as getting the right spec bat can mean a few days - hence lost time/hassle - and for a 'ton' seems like an 'investment'?

Any one else actually do this and have a spare leisure bat - is that a sensible contingency 'spare' to have?
(I noticed previously that the ideal spec for our setups often aren't stocked by the car stockist sheds - hence you might be tempted to buy one that looks close enough but may not be optimal -hence storing up future more battery 'issues' which leads to a vicious cycle of always getting a less than 'optimal' bat in a rush)

In my opinion its not what I would do.

But then we can usually get a replacement battery next day.

If getting a battery quickly is a problem I might consider (at the bottom of the list) buying another and swapping them around everyday. But this would be a major effort removing the battery every day. Just because you swap batteries over doesn't necessarily mean that your batteries will last twice as long.

Top of the list would be to wire in a change over switch. When I first kitted my son's van out I actually fitted a change over switch. I moved this wiring over to his replacement van. The switch is set to draw power for his pump from his leisure battery. If he switches the switch over he can draw power from his starter battery. I thought it was a good option back then. (His van also has a split charge relay as another backup.) If I was 'out in the sticks' and had to wait for a battery delivery I would fit a change over switch to my van and use the van's starter battery as a temporary measure.

In the trade we used to refresh starter batteries that we on the shelf too long. The manufacturer used to take them back and swap them with fresher stock. A stored battery needs to be periodically recharged to maintain optimum capacity and it also needs to work.

Leisure centers usually carry leisure batteries, but again, if you are buying a battery in spring it could well have sat on the self all winter. My first ever van mount battery came from a caravan outlet. I was surprised how many were in stock with no green indicator  showing in the magic eye. The one I did buy lasted about 3 years.

We got caught out when we first started wfp with a battery that failed when we were miles away from base. My son and I managed to finish the job off by leaving the engine running as the van had a split charge relay. (The van was in a secure lockup parking lot. Its illegal to leave a vehicle with the engine running unattended in the street.) That relay paid for itself that day. We didn't have to go back to base, order a replacement battery, wait for delivery and then return to the job to finish it.

 

[Daniel Perkins]

Hi Daniel. Once you get the new battery it will be interesting see if the flickering screen issues clears up. As the system is 18 months old Im guessing the battery is about the same age. Over time the batteries ability to hold a charge reduces. This can mean that after charging an older battery appears to be charged but then once under load from a pump the voltage falls away quickly. This would be the sign of a worn battery if it is not holding charge very well.

If the controller problem persists with the new battery then something else is causing the problem. at 18 months old the controller would be out of its manufacturer warranty period. However if you sent it back directly to Spring we would happily have a look at it and advise before carrying out any repair work.

Cheers

Thanks very much Ian. Yeah battery is also 18 months old and I probably didn't look after it as I should have in regards to a more regular charge but I wasn't doing a massive amount of wfp. The error message isn't a clear flashing "bat", could be "stp" too but hard to make out as flashing so quickly, it's only in the still at end of vid you can see bat clearly. Is there a way to reset the controller or is that a thing? Hopefully the new battery does the trick. If not i will try the few steps the lads have said on here before i contact you. Cheers


View attachment 20355

 

[Daniel Perkins]

I'm going to revisit what @Pjj advised @Daniel Perkins.

If you haven't done this, remove those cables from the battery terminals and clean up each surface with fine sandpaper or emery tape/cloth. This includes the battery terminals, the battery posts and the underneath of the screw heads.

Aluminum and steel react with each other and corrode over time. Its the same issue that Landrover owners have. The aluminum panels react with the metal frame so they need to put a barrier between the metal (insulator) to reduce this. You should do this one side at a time. If you can get some conductive grease great, but if not put it all back dry and smear some grease or vaseline over the top until you can get some electrical conductive grease.

I'm also had a closer look at that fuse holder. It looks like a snap lock unit. They can cause problems. I prefer the all in one fuse holder.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Inline-Car-Fuse-Blade-Holder-30Amp-12V-Splash-Robinson-K265/170976134151?epid=25026727171&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item27cef8c407:g:NvoAAOSwtGNZzh9k&enc=AQAEAAACcIQvEcHUrT7nmUC3yY5qbPyaBN1nJEDYW8MyypsJPgXKNJpkvJd843sBLRdhZ0zmMGPypzgkZHePrRVdb0UAJnOCwnRD3lm6kuH1twlmnIk%2FRPii0ndRBiKlEw%2FrcQ5JSCltQJMDPxm6FUyRZtI25h9hpdT5YHkXXiNBxv8ZxQiZLD3R28OADXZSKmmFJ8l31cVeE9silerAFmC6K6M90iTr%2By6N%2FGIYLc8HcHtMIbg8sE7eQOIYbEwq4pCKRnyRtDNUOdqT%2FNyyQsohFYZT%2FXU2zCiCuXQWyTNa5hFEl2qzaGY6PVPCt%2FHt3JW1mojDGevh0VICLOYJR9sHWzSeGfh4L7PqdGjYax2BcqgrINxNhrGWhYaLrWDDMvMabvyl%2BkERU%2BCQHrGEJCay%2FyZov60F8TbWbdpXrOy4UkeDn%2BIztdola%2BvGECMUIacX0EVBqzc%2FlKy3eqwJe8%2F84ieyxyWtoQDpg2fFaHJdODZo0hlyohve5ujrmOCRIs2cm0Z2N824FD5Ma2apop7%2BBXSZejspHR5BPM7pGpytk3vrv56GNHrU7PmT8i9EzrPYOdG5USyhTZ%2BbD9%2F89GCjLAKmkXtyY2H2Epz%2BhUvkyrwgDRhRYhp2MS1WKYHrbnX5BaJpYnXV9p%2BXm%2BqIcZEJ5o5hKC2m6zGquDIAN2joq75g%2BfrznjYTefGvoKDQjtfCyLLdL4oCDVbOCfA3AeadaMfi%2BW3FI8fjNd7uFXq36M14vW%2BY1lsIj3TNZzlnjkPdVyAQ6Rgxw2m%2Bw5gjD7fFvsTr9tCgbCpCmsDkDrPWsjgB8%2FhszPDW8XJJx%2FVAvqgAfN6Xsg%3D%3D&checksum=17097613415110f1e5e024ce4bda84a6ec18db624837

You also have the option of connecting your controller up to your van battery and seeing if this solves the problem. Any 2 core cable above 10 amps will do to try it but do make sure you get the polarity right.

Maybe you have a set of long jumper cables so you can connect your controller to the starter battery.

I have cleaned with a cloth by have yet to use the sandpaper, metals were clean but looked dull, not isure if that's the way they looked previous. I've also ran out of fine grade sandpaper, only the coarse stuff left ffs. I used the system for 1 hour and 40 mins today was 12.7 on controller, after I finished it was still displaying 12.7. Really need that multi meter to check battery itself to see if there is a difference.

As regards the fuses and connecting the controller up to van I dunno if I have the knowledge to do that to be honest. Electrics has never been my forte but I may have to do that if new battery doesn't do the job.

This is what looks like after a cloth clean. Removed both fuses too. Pics below are after cloth clean, screws still rusted. Thick black wire is the electric reel, removed fuses seem ok.

Daniel - I've just replaced my battery a few weeks back (numax xv31mf 105ah from tanya fast delivery ? ) so it was brand new...noticed the volt on the controller just kept dropping - after a few days 'Batt'. - I took off the bat lead clamps cleaned them as they had a white deposit (salt) on them - used fine sandpaper, until I got a nice shinny metal on the inside of the clamps - (terminals on the bat were obviously new so still shinny) when I put the clamp connectors back on the bat I tighten them to what I thought was 'tight' - then tried to 'wiggle' the clamp - it did still move a bit - so needed to retighten the clamp surprisingly a couple of more full 'turns' until the clamps were rock solid on the bat terminals - This sorted it - bat has played nicely ever since - so for my issue would underline the really important point Pjj made - 'clean as a whistle' terminals AND inside of clamps and then grease to prevent deposits building up again.

I've wondered for a few years now whether it's worth having a brand new backup battery sat in my 'spare kit collection' - as getting the right spec bat can mean a few days - hence lost time/hassle - and for a 'ton' seems like an 'investment'?

Any one else actually do this and have a spare leisure bat - is that a sensible contingency 'spare' to have?
(I noticed previously that the ideal spec for our setups often aren't stocked by the car stockist sheds - hence you might be tempted to buy one that looks close enough but may not be optimal -hence storing up future more battery 'issues' which leads to a vicious cycle of always getting a less than 'optimal' bat in a rush)

Lovely stuff, it's being dispatched today so hopefully over here in a few days. No WFP jobs until next week so slightly relieved. 

 

[Davy G]

Daniel - I've just replaced my battery a few weeks back (numax xv31mf 105ah from tanya fast delivery ? ) so it was brand new...noticed the volt on the controller just kept dropping - after a few days 'Batt'. - I took off the bat lead clamps cleaned them as they had a white deposit (salt) on them - used fine sandpaper, until I got a nice shinny metal on the inside of the clamps - (terminals on the bat were obviously new so still shinny) when I put the clamp connectors back on the bat I tighten them to what I thought was 'tight' - then tried to 'wiggle' the clamp - it did still move a bit - so needed to retighten the clamp surprisingly a couple of more full 'turns' until the clamps were rock solid on the bat terminals - This sorted it - bat has played nicely ever since - so for my issue would underline the really important point Pjj made - 'clean as a whistle' terminals AND inside of clamps and then grease to prevent deposits building up again.

I've wondered for a few years now whether it's worth having a brand new backup battery sat in my 'spare kit collection' - as getting the right spec bat can mean a few days - hence lost time/hassle - and for a 'ton' seems like an 'investment'?

Any one else actually do this and have a spare leisure bat - is that a sensible contingency 'spare' to have?
(I noticed previously that the ideal spec for our setups often aren't stocked by the car stockist sheds - hence you might be tempted to buy one that looks close enough but may not be optimal -hence storing up future more battery 'issues' which leads to a vicious cycle of always getting a less than 'optimal' bat in a rush)

I wouldn't buy a spare battery and have it sat about. It's not good for them. What about fitting a second one in tandem with the existing one in the van to share the workload. They would both be getting worked and both be getting charged. A good SCR (Durite) and away you go, years of trouble free battery power. That's what I did anyway and it's been a great success. Mine are really big and heavy so I have one each side of the van just behind the tank. They are linked together in parallel and fuse protected. I took a twin cable from one of them to a point just inside the back door as a connection point for a mains charger should I ever need one as I have a shelf and equipment on top of the heavy duty battery boxes, which makes them a little awkward to access. This cable is also fuse protected and is colour coded for + & --. Up to now, touch wood, never been needed.