Markup on window cleaning equipment is getting silly.

[THL4KEL]

A lot of the manufacturers were buying off aren't just dealing with the UK window cleaning market their selling overseas as well. Their not just little businesses..

 

[wonderer99]

Sorry to circle back to this comment but it’s just your last point.

You’ve always had a positive experience. And you obviously like the equipment. So what exactly is the issue? Do you not think these hard working folk should get some of the cake too?

Honestly with all the other ways we’re getting screwed by billion pound monopolies, be it fuel, energy, vehicle repairs (look at the state of our roads), food, house prices, etc, why go after small suppliers who, in your own words, give you a positive experience?

Sigh. You are putting words in my mouth. Where have I said, or even implied that "hard working folk" shouldn't "get some of the cake"? You are being a little unfair there.

I can be happy with a supplier (or suppliers) and still think some things are overpriced no? Do you think everything is reasonably priced yourself? Do you think personally everything we use only has a small, respectable mark up?

 

[Master Jedi Alejandro]

Well his company has £3m in their bank account so if he wanted to he could, and before you get defensive again this isn't a jibe at a successful businessman just a statement of fact

Ohh I believe they have that money. But you of all folk known that money in the bank is not = to profit. Now, £3m yes, he maybe could take a dividend and get a Lambo. But I still don’t think that’s evidence that they’re overcharging

 

[Master Jedi Alejandro]

Sigh. You are putting words in my mouth. Where have I said, or even implied that "hard working folk" shouldn't "get some of the cake"? You are being a little unfair there.

I can be happy with a supplier (or suppliers) and still think some things are overpriced no? Do you think everything is reasonably priced yourself? Do you think personally everything we use only has a small, respectable mark up?

You’ve implied it by your original post. Do I believe the ‘markup’ is small? No. Do I believe it’s reasonable? Yes. There is more to a product than manufacturing costs. There are multiple stages, involving many people, who all need paid.

1. Research & Development. All cost and no guarantee of return.
2. Tooling. Again, all cost & still no return.
3. Transport from factory to supplier
4. Quality control.
5. Storage
6. Marketing (not just ‘advertising’ but even just having a e-commerce website to sell the product on)
7. Shipping & handling to you

At all stages are people who need paid. And at all stages are costs. So a product may only cost £2 for the bill of materials, but by the time you factor in all the other costs the price is a lot higher than this. And this is purely for one product. Not all the other stuff that you need for a company (marketing, sales, HR, support, cleaners, packers, etc, etc). This is the same for everything we buy. And I can guarantee the makeup on our equipment is nothing like the markup on luxury goods, like a iPhone or a nice German sports car!

 

[Pjj]

I knew I would get some grief but if you honestly think some things aren't simply overpriced then maybe you are a part of the problem? I'm not a fool. I understand overheads and profit, I run a business myself (don't we all?)

The TDS meter I mentioned. The EXACT SAME ONE can be had for less than £6 delivered. £42 plus delivery is ridiculous no matter how you try and defend it. It's not some super, calibrated one. It's the exact same make, design, everything. .

Like I said I purchase from most of the main retailers and the experience has always been positive and I'm not saying EVERYTHING falls into the overpriced category but once you factor in VAT and £5 delivery charges some spare rubber washers end up being silly money for what they.

It’s not the same one ITS A CHINEESE COPY

 

[wonderer99]

You’ve implied it by your original post. Do I believe the ‘markup’ is small? No. Do I believe it’s reasonable? Yes. There is more to a product than manufacturing costs. There are multiple stages, involving many people, who all need paid.

1. Research & Development. All cost and no guarantee of return.
2. Tooling. Again, all cost & still no return.
3. Transport from factory to supplier
4. Quality control.
5. Storage
6. Marketing (not just ‘advertising’ but even just having a e-commerce website to sell the product on)
7. Shipping & handling to you

At all stages are people who need paid. And at all stages are costs. So a product may only cost £2 for the bill of materials, but by the time you factor in all the other costs the price is a lot higher than this. And this is purely for one product. Not all the other stuff that you need for a company (marketing, sales, HR, support, cleaners, packers, etc, etc). This is the same for everything we buy. And I can guarantee the makeup on our equipment is nothing like the markup on luxury goods, like a iPhone or a nice German sports car!

No, I didn't imply that businesses, small or large, shouldn't make a profit. Where have I said or implied that?

Thank you for the condescending explanation of how a business works. I know, I run one. Why are you repeatedly assuming I don't know how things work? Everything you said above is true of EVERY manufacturer not just window cleaner suppliers. My initial post was acknowledging that a lack of competition plays a large part in what keeps prices high.

 

[wonderer99]

It’s not the same one ITS A CHINEESE COPY

Maybe and how would you know? One of the images below costs over £40, the other is a fiver. Without other testing equipment to know how would you determine which is which? Are you 100% sure they are not the exact same thing? If either one of these fell on your door mat how would you know? Also why assume because its cheap it doesnt do the job? Its a TDS meter not the large hadron collider!

Every window cleaner here owns a £40 plus TDS meter? Please.

 

[Pjj]

Maybe and how would you know? One of the images below costs over £40, the other is a fiver. Without other testing equipment to know how would you determine which is which? Are you 100% sure they are not the exact same thing? If either one of these fell on your door mat how would you know? Also why assume because its cheap it doesnt do the job? Its a TDS meter not the large hadron collider!

Every window cleaner here owns a £40 plus TDS meter? Please.

If it’s £5 off Amazon it’s a copy they are very good copies but they aren’t accurate been there and done that , bit like fake Rolex watches to the average man in the street they look ok to a watch specialist they would spot it’s a fake straight away , bit like Rectus 21 fitting untill you have had the original Parker ones you wouldn’t recognise a fake

 

[Master Jedi Alejandro]

No, I didn't imply that businesses, small or large, shouldn't make a profit. Where have I said or implied that?

Thank you for the condescending explanation of how a business works. I know, I run one. Why are you repeatedly assuming I don't know how things work? Everything you said above is true of EVERY manufacturer not just window cleaner suppliers. My initial post was acknowledging that a lack of competition plays a large part in what keeps prices high.

I apologies for coming across condescending. That was not my intention. However, do you not think your original post was OTT? You’re on here moaning about a £20 TDS meter. The cost, for most of us, of a single clean of a 4/5 bedroom house.

My explanation was pointing out how manufacturing businesses work. They are vastly different from window cleaning business. I simply assumed you maybe didn’t appreciate the vast complexities and costs involved in those industries. After all, we are all very fortunate as window cleaners that are costs and risk our extremely minor compared to almost all other companies!

 

[Master Jedi Alejandro]

Maybe and how would you know? One of the images below costs over £40, the other is a fiver. Without other testing equipment to know how would you determine which is which? Are you 100% sure they are not the exact same thing? If either one of these fell on your door mat how would you know? Also why assume because its cheap it doesnt do the job? Its a TDS meter not the large hadron collider!

Every window cleaner here owns a £40 plus TDS meter? Please.

The one on the left is fake, it doesn’t have HM branding. The other one I do not know as it is obscured in that picture.

 

[Pjj]

Maybe and how would you know? One of the images below costs over £40, the other is a fiver. Without other testing equipment to know how would you determine which is which? Are you 100% sure they are not the exact same thing? If either one of these fell on your door mat how would you know? Also why assume because its cheap it doesnt do the job? Its a TDS meter not the large hadron collider!

Every window cleaner here owns a £40 plus TDS meter? Please.

100% sure they are fakes had them in the past and the readings are way out . Doug at daqua is a good honest guy and his prices are very reasonable he only sells genuine stuff the price of everything theses days is crazy but we can’t alter that we just have to increase our prices to cover expenses, let’s be honest we are all on very good money ,if we aren’t then we should be and need to look at what we are charging ,down here all the new starters are earning very good money as they understand being self employed you have to , £40-60 per hour should be a fair avarage once established . So I don’t think £25-30 for a tds meter is extortionate they last years .

 

[Deleted member 7446]

Maybe and how would you know? One of the images below costs over £40, the other is a fiver. Without other testing equipment to know how would you determine which is which? Are you 100% sure they are not the exact same thing? If either one of these fell on your door mat how would you know? Also why assume because its cheap it doesnt do the job? Its a TDS meter not the large hadron collider!

Every window cleaner here owns a £40 plus TDS meter? Please.

I did a video some years ago covering Handheld TDS Meters and how inaccurate, unreliable & poor quality versions fair up against a genuine HM Digital TDS-3 the results were all over the place.

I feel for new starters that haven't found this forum or have been able to tap into the correct information and valued opinions as they'll be buying rubbish and their water quality will be all over the shop


I found these images on my old phone for context

 

[Deleted member 12462]

100% sure they are fakes had them in the past and the readings are way out . Doug at daqua is a good honest guy and his prices are very reasonable he only sells genuine stuff the price of everything theses days is crazy but we can’t alter that we just have to increase our prices to cover expenses, let’s be honest we are all on very good money ,if we aren’t then we should be and need to look at what we are charging ,down here all the new starters are earning very good money as they understand being self employed you have to , £40-60 per hour should be a fair avarage once established . So I don’t think £25-30 for a tds meter is extortionate they last years .

Does he have a lambo?

 

[Master Jedi Alejandro]

Does he have a lambo?

Aye! But one of the new ones with those big chunky snow tyres. He lives in the North of Scotland after all

 

[doce]

If the very same item (not a cheap copy) is being sold at the same price by multiple outlets it’s probably the result of an illegal price fixing cartel. Probably informal and probably undocumented, precisely because it’s illegal.

Is that the case, or are we talking the difference between the price of originals and copies?

 

[Cleanco]

There’s an argument to both sides here I think. To be fair to the op though I kinda know where he’s comin from. Not so long ago I ordered a new brush(no attachments) and a cheap battery charger cos they never seem to last as long as the back pack itself. It came to the best part of £80. Fair enough there is a lot of work that goes on behind the scenes as has been previously mentioned but if was to make a list of things you can get for the same money and compare I would say I had been ripped off. Pointless moanin about it though cos it won’t make a difference. If I can help it I try and order as much as I can at a time to try and keep postage costs down as most shops offer free postage on orderers above a certain size. When your payin more in postage than the item itself it becomes a joke.

 

[Master Jedi Alejandro]

If the very same item (not a cheap copy) is being sold at the same price by multiple outlets it’s probably the result of an illegal price fixing cartel. Probably informal and probably undocumented, precisely because it’s illegal.

Is that the case, or are we talking the difference between the price of originals and copies?

Not necessarily. The OEM will set a have retail price. But it’s up to each supplier to determine if that price works for them. With most items the more you order the lower CPU you pay. So bigger suppliers may be able to order more, pay less and advertise for less. Smaller suppliers will then feel pressured to match them or lose business, but ultimately make less money. This is just one way prices may be similar without any sort of price fixing.

 

[Master Jedi Alejandro]

There’s an argument to both sides here I think. To be fair to the op though I kinda know where he’s comin from. Not so long ago I ordered a new brush(no attachments) and a cheap battery charger cos they never seem to last as long as the back pack itself. It came to the best part of £80. Fair enough there is a lot of work that goes on behind the scenes as has been previously mentioned but if was to make a list of things you can get for the same money and compare I would say I had been ripped off. Pointless moanin about it though cos it won’t make a difference. If I can help it I try and order as much as I can at a time to try and keep postage costs down as most shops offer free postage on orderers above a certain size. When your payin more in postage than the item itself it becomes a joke.

Also remember spare parts are ALWAYS more expensive than the same part included as a total package. This is because they need stored separately which costs money. A new ball joint for my van cost circa £60. The same part would not have cost £60 when brought as part of the entire van, but the individual part needs to be stored until needed.

Also, postage is something we have gotten good for years. In other countries it’s vastly more expensive. And if a retailer is offering ‘free postage’ it’s not free. It’s simply already bundled in the price you’re paying for the item. Personally I would rather it kept separate so it’s easier to compare items like for like. So a £20 shirt with free postage is actually £15 with the £5 bundled in. But then if you order two shirts your paying £40 as your paying postage twice, rather than £35 if it was kept separate.

 

[Frank Feck Up]

Does he have a lambo?

Porsche

 

[Scrubsy]

I agree, lots of equipment is very expensive. I suppose part of it is finding your preferred poles and brushes and looking after them as best you can (I've met window cleaners who are meticulous in their van set up and keep everything clean and tidy, and others who just throw everything in the back).

Haven't really tried a univalve (only use a backpack, so a tap is fine for me as it's never far away like a tank would be). They are pricey but they are clever design, and if they save water and make the job easier then that's great.

There is some stuff that is good value though, or makes it's cost back quicker - I do a mix of traditional and water fed and I have some pulex tools that are superb value for money compared to other things. Also tempted to try an xline brush as they are apparently very long lasting, even if they cost a bit more at the start.

 

[Bell Pallisey]

usually find JW collaborate together ,cant blame em ,oddybods stick together dont they.I dont know how many jw windies there are in Your own area but im not one of em. The ones round my way set their prices together but are very half arsed about work generally ,i mean you wont ever find them grafting in the true sense ,slow but steady wearing desert boots and slacks is their mantra