Split charge relay quote

[Woodsclan]

Does this sound about right? I'm just swapping over to a 21 plate van and the company dealing with the change over has told me that I need a newer split charge relay which will cost me in the region of £500. Sounds a bit steep to me.

 

[tench0771]

sounds pricy but everything window cleaning wise is blady pricy im asuming thats with fitting streamline sell one £164+vat im gesing the newer the van means more hitec relays who no's

 

[RyeCleanLiam]

The smart relays themselves cost around £250. Plus the wiring, connectors, fuses plus labour etc it soon adds up. Though £500 does sound a tad expensive I think you'd be hard pressed to find it much cheaper than £450 with fitting.

 

[ched999uk]

With a 21 plate van you will have a 'smart' alternator. Basically when you let go of the throttle the alternator is 'switched on' and charges the starter battery. The starter batter on your van is not a normal one, it can take the higher voltage a smart alternator puts out - getting towards 20 volts.

So to harness this alternator behaviour a Battery to Battery (B2B) charger is required that takes the high alternator voltage and lowers it to be able to charge your leisure battery. That's why the 'split charger' for your van is so much more expensive.

Personally I would say if you can mains charge each night then I wouldn't spend the £500. I would even be tempted to get a 100Ah lithium ion (LiFePO4) battery from FogStar and one of their mains chargers. This would give you about 100Ah whereas a 100Ah lead acid only gives you 50Ah. The Lithium should last about 5 times longer than a lead acid. I think it's guarantee is 10 years, has Bluetooth monitoring so you can see state of charge etc and a heater to ensure you only charge it when it's at the right temp. No need to connect that to the alternator at all.

 

[spruce]

I'm afraid labour rates are going through the proverbial roof.
The main motor dealerships are charging £125 +vat per hour. Minimum charge for 5 minutes work is half and hour.

Four years ago I fitted 5 new Pirelli Carrier tyres to my van. They were £85 each fitted and balanced. I needed to replace 2. They are now around the £180 mark for one.

If you own a Ford Custom with a wet belt, that will set you back £1250 + vat to replace.

 

[Woodsclan]

Thanks guys, gives me something to think about

 

[PC]

Still after all these years struggling to understand SCR. And especially this idea of spending almost £500!
The one I use at the moment is ‘Ouhoug’. Bog standard SCR - it was £50. Works lovely.
The one before that I can’t remember the name of but I think it was £30. It lasted 5 years before I changed it for this newer one. It was still going strong.
They are both wired straight from the main battery.
Never had a single issue.
So are these not Battery2Battery chargers then?
How then are they different from the stupidly expensive Battery2Battery chargers?
I drive a 2017 Transit Custom

 

[spruce]

Still after all these years struggling to understand SCR. And especially this idea of spending almost £500!
The one I use at the moment is ‘Ouhoug’. Bog standard SCR - it was £50. Works lovely.
The one before that I can’t remember the name of but I think it was £30. It lasted 5 years before I changed it for this newer one. It was still going strong.
They are both wired straight from the main battery.
Never had a single issue.
So are these not Battery2Battery chargers then?
How then are they different from the stupidly expensive Battery2Battery chargers?
I drive a 2017 Transit Custom

If an scr is working for you now, then stay with it, is my advice.
But things could well change if you bought a new Custom.
All an scr is, is an on/off switch between the starter and leisure battery. Whatever charge is going into the starter battery will be duplicated at the leisure battery.
With a smart alternator, it could be that the alternator isn't charging enough to charge a battery even though the engine is running. This means that the leisure battery will not be being charged either.
The alternator in this scenario will be putting out some voltage, say 12v, but just 'idling' as 12v isn't enough to charge a battery.

A b2b or dc to dc charger will take that 12v and boosts it up to 14.2v (or whatever it's set to), which will charge your leisure battery, even if the starter battery isn't receiving any charge.
With regenerative braking, the ecu tells the alternator to boost charge, which could be 18v. 18v is too high to charge a lead acid battery, so a b2b charger will reduce that voltage from 18v to 14.2v.

I have a b2b charger on my van. A vsr works just as well.

Please have a look at this thread.

Split Charge Relay

Split Charge Relay. Most window cleaners who use the Water Fed Pole with a van mounted tank will, sooner or later, question whether they need to add an auxiliary charging method for their leisure battery that’s driven from the vehicle’s alternator or not. A Split Charge Relay (SCR) is now a...

windowcleaningforums.co.uk

 

[PC]

I have no idea if I have a smart alternator or regenerative braking to be honest. Completely clueless when it comes to vehicles. I do have a Euro6 with adblue though and I’ve read before that a normal scr will not work on these vehicles yet works fine on mine for the last 4-5 years. Hence my confusion.
As you said if it works then stay with it mate

 

[Pjj]

I'm afraid labour rates are going through the proverbial roof.
The main motor dealerships are charging £125 +vat per hour. Minimum charge for 5 minutes work is half and hour.

Four years ago I fitted 5 new Pirelli Carrier tyres to my van. They were £85 each fitted and balanced. I needed to replace 2. They are now around the £180 mark for one.

If you own a Ford Custom with a wet belt, that will set you back £1250 + vat to replace.

Ford dealers down here want £1500+ vat to change a wet belt 😰😰

 

[PC]

Ford dealers down here want £1500+ vat to change a wet belt 😰😰

Got people by the proverbials. If you don’t have it done and it goes then that’s new engine so mega money!

 

[spruce]

Got people by the proverbials. If you don’t have it done and it goes then that’s new engine so mega money!

This is true. An ordinary man in the street can't change his front disc pads of his VW without an up market code reader. The mechanic has to tell the ecu to open the brakes so he can get the old pads out and replace the new ones.

 

[ched999uk]

This is true. An ordinary man in the street can't change his front disc pads of his VW without an up market code reader. The mechanic has to tell the ecu to open the brakes so he can get the old pads out and replace the new ones.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying the post is poo just the practice of stopping people including independent garages working on cars is creating a monopoly!

 

[spruce]

Just to clarify, I'm not saying the post is poo just the practice of stopping people including independent garages working on cars is creating a monopoly!

This is it. Legislation was introduced to make it a 'level playing field' for independent garages and prevent this type of monopoly.
But the industry is trying to find ways of getting around it.

I had our Citroën Xsara in the Independent PSA workshops in Thornaby last week.
He was telling me that they are no longer a Citroën approved workshop. To be Citroën approved was going to cost both him and the main dealers thousands a year, which he said wasn't worth it. This Citroën approval was linked to them also allowing them to do warranty work, which he wasn't interested in doing anyway. Rather than encouraging the independent garage, it's discouraging them.

He said it was expensive enough to buy the Citroën Alexia computer program as well as Peugeot's Planet computer program just to access all PSA vehicle's ECU. On top of that, there is the annual rental fee for the software, which includes updates.

So for any of us who have always done our own DIY servicing and repairs, it's now becoming more and more difficult.

I can change the oil and oil filter of my Boxer van, but I can't reset the service indicator, as that can only be done by the main dealers with the Planet program or other code readers costing the earth. With our Citroën, I can use the ignition key and a button on the dash, (always got to look up which button it is), which is the same way the dealer workshops used to reset it back in the day.

 

[ched999uk]

This is it. Legislation was introduced to make it a 'level playing field' for independent garages and prevent this type of monopoly.
But the industry is trying to find ways of getting around it.

I had our Citroën Xsara in the Independent PSA workshops in Thornaby last week.
He was telling me that they are no longer a Citroën approved workshop. To be Citroën approved was going to cost both him and the main dealers thousands a year, which he said wasn't worth it. This Citroën approval was linked to them also allowing them to do warranty work, which he wasn't interested in doing anyway. Rather than encouraging the independent garage, it's discouraging them.

He said it was expensive enough to buy the Citroën Alexia computer program as well as Peugeot's Planet computer program just to access all PSA vehicle's ECU. On top of that, there is the annual rental fee for the software, which includes updates.

So for any of us who have always done our own DIY servicing and repairs, it's now becoming more and more difficult.

I can change the oil and oil filter of my Boxer van, but I can't reset the service indicator, as that can only be done by the main dealers with the Planet program or other code readers costing the earth. With our Citroën, I can use the ignition key and a button on the dash, (always got to look up which button it is), which is the same way the dealer workshops used to reset it back in the day.

Yep that are making it harder and harder. I think it's VW that the ecu 'needs' to be told the vehicle has a new battery!
Recently had a engine management light come up on my 2019 Peugeot Partner, then had an email from Peugeot saying 'engine fault' and to get it booked it! I plugged a cheapy ELM327 odbII reader in and used a few apps that all gave same code of NOX sensor giving iffy readings. Looked it up and from a main dealer they are over £500 + labour!!! just for a sensor!!! Found one on amazon, with their returns policy being good I thought I would give it a try and it was £130. It was a pain to install as in middle of van on the exhaust. Had to buy crowsfoot spanner but it did come out using a breaker bar! Put new one in, used an app to reset engine management light and it's been fine ever since. Keeping my fingers crossed it keeps working.
There is a 'hacked' copy of Peugeot planet that works offline that seems to be available from some of the Chinese type sites. I keep thinking about it but I think it's still about £200.
I think Gov's should open up/expand the ODBII system to enable more independent garages to actually work on cars. It won't happen as the French and Germans would never allow it plus the Chinese don't like people looking at their software so they wouldn't be to keen either.
There are some really impressive ODBII boxes of tricks out there but some of them are £400+ and I can't really find out what they can or can't do.

 

[spruce]

Yep that are making it harder and harder. I think it's VW that the ecu 'needs' to be told the vehicle has a new battery!
Recently had a engine management light come up on my 2019 Peugeot Partner, then had an email from Peugeot saying 'engine fault' and to get it booked it! I plugged a cheapy ELM327 odbII reader in and used a few apps that all gave same code of NOX sensor giving iffy readings. Looked it up and from a main dealer they are over £500 + labour!!! just for a sensor!!! Found one on amazon, with their returns policy being good I thought I would give it a try and it was £130. It was a pain to install as in middle of van on the exhaust. Had to buy crowsfoot spanner but it did come out using a breaker bar! Put new one in, used an app to reset engine management light and it's been fine ever since. Keeping my fingers crossed it keeps working.
There is a 'hacked' copy of Peugeot planet that works offline that seems to be available from some of the Chinese type sites. I keep thinking about it but I think it's still about £200.
I think Gov's should open up/expand the ODBII system to enable more independent garages to actually work on cars. It won't happen as the French and Germans would never allow it plus the Chinese don't like people looking at their software so they wouldn't be to keen either.
There are some really impressive ODBII boxes of tricks out there but some of them are £400+ and I can't really find out what they can or can't do.

There are a few programs that work with an ELM327 reader. I have one on my phone. I can do what I need to on our Citroën Xsara.

Unfortunately, my Boxer uses an SID208 ECU which no one has cracked yet. My van is between earlier models and models a few years younger, but between 2011 to 2015, no. Strangely, Ford use the same ECU on some of their vehicles which they have 'cracked'.

If I want my van remapped, I have to send the ECU in. They open it, connect wires to the pc board, and program it from there on the bench.

Back in the day, PSA didn't want people 'messing about' with engine management settings, so EU legislation didn't go down too well. After all, they argued that as they are held responsible for vehicles which don't meet emission standards, no one should be able to change those settings. That all sounded well and good in the early days, but diesel gate kind of questioned the validity of their argument. Were they beating the system even back then, and didn't want people to find out?

PSA introduced a 2 tier system on the OBD11 ports. The independent garages were able to open the basics with most code readers with tier 1, but it was only PSA approved workshops that could get into tier 2. That satisfied the legislation.

Over time, some clever guys were able to hack into tier 2 on some models, but only with limited access.

I believe that most not too expensive code readers are able to read live data on most VW cars, but again, I have no firm experience with this.

One of the local lads had an MB Sprinter van. When the van was stationary, it would only rev to 2500 rpm he said. It always passed the MOT smoke test, as it only started smoking when on the road and revving above 2500 rpm according to him. It smoked and used a lot of oil between services.