Unlicensed window cleaners (Scotland)

[ChrisTheHelp]

A question.... What would you do about an unlicensed window cleaner operating in your area?

In Scotland it's a legal requirement to be Licensed with any Local Authority area you work in. This includes Police background checks, proof of insurance etc. Without the License the window cleaner is working both illigally and uninsured (as insurance is automatically invalidated without the License.) There are two seperate people working in the area I cover who aren't Licensed. So how would you deal with it/them?

I have no problem with open competition and wish anyone playing by the rules the best of luck. (Most people have families to take care of after all.) But these people aren't playing by the rules!

Your thoughts please     :1f44d:

 

[Dabber]

Report them if they aren’t licensed there’s a good chance they won’t be registered with HMRC etc.

if you abide by the rules why shouldn’t others.

 

[Chris33]

Nothing. This is an under funded area of enforcement in scotland and thus, will never be sorted unless readdressee as a whole

 

[ChrisTheHelp]

Nothing. This is an under funded area of enforcement in scotland and thus, will never be sorted unless readdressee as a whole

Agreed about the underfurnding of enforsement but why do the rest of us in Scotland bother to get licensed (aside from the Insurance aspect of it)? Are we (meaning 'I') a mug for paying approx £300 every three years for a License? 

 

[Wind o kleen]

Agreed about the underfurnding of enforsement but why do the rest of us in Scotland bother to get licensed (aside from the Insurance aspect of it)? Are we (meaning 'I') a mug for paying approx £300 every three years for a License? 

Yeah you are a mug move to England and pay no fees haha

 

[scottish cleaning service]

I still see some guys running about with ladders on their roof racks. They are slowly but surely getting phased out. I advertise on checkatrade and get a job every week at this time of year. The public are looking for trustworthy window cleaners and are looking on the net to find them. I can see licensing only getting stronger and domestic cleaning will be next on their agenda.

 

[DavieB]

Just report them. We are the same, licence, insurance tax NI, if i have to pay it, then so should the rest of them

 

[Pjj]

Agreed about the underfurnding of enforsement but why do the rest of us in Scotland bother to get licensed (aside from the Insurance aspect of it)? Are we (meaning 'I') a mug for paying approx £300 every three years for a License? 

I would like to see licensing introduced in England too but ONLY if it is enforced by someone other wise it’s a toothless tiger , if it was enforced it would stop the dole clamers , and beer money ones not that they are a threat to my buisness but they drag down prices as generally they arnt insured : don’t pay tax , do a poor job and get good cleaners a bad image  

 

[doug atkinson]

Agreed about the underfurnding of enforsement but why do the rest of us in Scotland bother to get licensed (aside from the Insurance aspect of it)? Are we (meaning 'I') a mug for paying approx £300 every three years for a License? 

Where are you based as there should be an Enforcement Officer in the Council. The problem with the Enforcement Officer he cannot charge the unlicensed operative but pass the information onto the Police.

Within the Police Division there is a licensing officer but the problem is some are very good and some not as they are of retiring age.

Enforcement lies with the Police which the   Scottish law but cannot remember the act.

It is a civil offence not to be licensed so the Police can refer the person to the CPS.

if you ring the Police they may try to fob you off but you have to say I am making an official complaint and I want a reference number. The operator has to log it.

They do act on it and I do know they prosecute but with all the cuts and the SNP focussed on other things try not to point the finger at them as the Police hands are tied with politics going on with the SNP.

 

[P4dstar]

I would like to see licensing introduced in England too but ONLY if it is enforced by someone other wise it’s a toothless tiger , if it was enforced it would stop the dole clamers , and beer money ones not that they are a threat to my buisness but they drag down prices as generally they arnt insured : don’t pay tax , do a poor job and get good cleaners a bad image  

I wouldn’t. In principal it’s a great idea for all the points you make above. In practice it takes months to get a licence issued. It costs money which overtime would increase and increase.

In the US you need a licence to run pretty much any type of business and the final decision lies with the local authority. Imagine your daughter broke up with a lad in the licensing department and he decides to get his own back by not issuing you a licence. That’s a mild example without heading down the route some conspiracy theorists would be. You could be stopped from working if you have a criminal record that is far in your past.

Its not likely this would start with extreme fees and harsh rules but that would undoubtedly happen over time. Remember, you’re not the one who sets the rules or decides the fees. But yes, just to reiterate, I completely agree with the points about why it would be good. I do still feel these are outweighed by the potential bad points.

With regards to the OP’s question. Get on the blower to the police mate, there is no way you should be paying for something only to have people undercut your prices because they are flouncing the rules. Keep ringing and complaining until you get a result. If ringing doesn’t do anything then write your local MP. With an election looming they’ll go all out to address the point and perhaps if enough people do it then someone will find funding to police it.

 

[ChrisTheHelp]

Where are you based as there should be an Enforcement Officer in the Council. The problem with the Enforcement Officer he cannot charge the unlicensed operative but pass the information onto the Police.

Within the Police Division there is a licensing officer but the problem is some are very good and some not as they are of retiring age.

Enforcement lies with the Police which the   Scottish law but cannot remember the act.

It is a civil offence not to be licensed so the Police can refer the person to the CPS.

if you ring the Police they may try to fob you off but you have to say I am making an official complaint and I want a reference number. The operator has to log it.

They do act on it and I do know they prosecute but with all the cuts and the SNP focussed on other things try not to point the finger at them as the Police hands are tied with politics going on with the SNP.

That's all very helpful stuff P4Dstar. Thank you!  :1f44d:

 

[ChrisTheHelp]

I sent one of the people in question a message last night making them 'more aware' of the Licensing situation. They may or may not take the hint, we'll see. If they don't I'll escellate things. Like others above, I don't see why one person should play by the rules and others not.

Interestingly, the second person cleaning without a License is a retired police officer! There are good and not-so-good people in all sectors of the community. (I'm not Police bashing BTW, the Police in my area are okay in my experiance.)

I'll update here as things develop..... :1f44d:  

 

[spruce]

@ChrisTheHelp.

Sorry to ask, but as I know nothing about licencing in Scotland, how do you know if a windie is licenced or not?

I see he needs to keep his licence on him at all times when working, but it doesn't have to be visible if its not a council issued identification badge.

 

[ChrisTheHelp]

@ChrisTheHelp.

Sorry to ask, but as I know nothing about licencing in Scotland, how do you know if a windie is licenced or not?

I see he needs to keep his licence on him at all times when working, but it doesn't have to be visible if its not a council issued identification badge.

There's a Public Register which can be viewed either at the Council Office where its held or an electronic copy can be requested by email.

 

 

[spruce]

There's a Public Register which can be viewed either at the Council Office where its held or an electronic copy can be requested by email.

 

Personally, I wouldn't get involved. Him and a bunch of his mates can do more harm and/or damage to you and/or your property than its worth, especially if they have had a few. I would just keep my head down and get on with my business. I doubt that 2 unregistered windies in a your area with have much of an impact on the availability of work, especially if 1 is just topping up his pension or saving up for holidays etc.

If customers don't care then that's really their problem. If a retired Policeman is also one of them then I'm pretty sure the authorities won't investigate the other fellow.

As with alot of things, much of what goes on 'under the radar' is left to insurance to police. If there is an accident then its hardly unlikely that damage would be more than the excess he would have to pay on an insurance claim, so he would pay for the damage out of his pocket even if he was insured.

We have been window cleaning over 15 years and we have only damaged the odd ornament or pot over the years and son has been responsible for most of them.

 

[Nudel]

I have thought about this since yesterday, and I side with @spruce on this. Stay out of it and just let it be @ChrisTheHelp.

What would you benefit from it other than making enemies? Nobody likes a snitch. You are better off befriending the competition.

Sign write your van with "legally registered and fully insured", do a good job wherever you go, and see the work roll in over time.

Mate, let the bucket bobs deal with the messers and penny pinchers, and work for the people who value professionalism and quality over price alone.

 

[Chris33]

I would like to see licensing introduced in England too but ONLY if it is enforced by someone other wise it’s a toothless tiger , if it was enforced it would stop the dole clamers , and beer money ones not that they are a threat to my buisness but they drag down prices as generally they arnt insured : don’t pay tax , do a poor job and get good cleaners a bad image  

Last time I spoke to the fife enforcement officer he told me if I was to report anyone unlicensed he would need an exact street they were working in at an exact time. Laughable. 

What we should do is refuse to pay the fee until its enforced right. It's become like the tv licence. Only with more risk to the public involved. 

 

[ChrisTheHelp]

Last time I spoke to the fife enforcement officer he told me if I was to report anyone unlicensed he would need an exact street they were working in at an exact time. Laughable. 

What we should do is refuse to pay the fee until its enforced right. It's become like the tv licence. Only with more risk to the public involved. 

That's rediculous and does no one any favours, other than the person working without a license! 

 

[spruce]

That's rediculous and does no one any favours, other than the person working without a license! 

Unfortunately we live in an unjust world.

This situation pales into insignificance when compared to the injustice those parents are suffering who have lost their son because of an American woman is claiming diplomatic immunity to save herself from punishment for causing his death by negligent driving. 

 

[spruce]

Last time I spoke to the fife enforcement officer he told me if I was to report anyone unlicensed he would need an exact street they were working in at an exact time. Laughable. 

What we should do is refuse to pay the fee until its enforced right. It's become like the tv licence. Only with more risk to the public involved. 

That will be a stock answer to get you off their backs. In this day of cutbacks and a general lethargy displayed by government employees (not all but a large percentage) they will be doing their best to not get involved. That means they don't have to raise any paperwork. They don't have to follow up your report and hence it isn't included in any negative statistics. (There is probably a section the have to report regarding incoming telephone calls and if so. then that will be given a statutory positive tick in the box.)

 

[spruce]

I wasn't going to mention this before @ChrisTheHelp.

Each one of us is bombarded with distractions that can take our focus away from what we are striving to accomplish. This effect us in all forms of our daily lives. Our old Managing Director at Bosch in South Africa used to regularily remind the sales staff of this American saying;

 "When you are up to your ass in alligators, it's easy to forget that your original objective was to drain the swamp."  (I believe that Ronald Regan also used this but used the word "armpits.")

It is easy to be so overcome or preoccupied by various tangential worries, concerns, problems, injustices or tasks that one loses sight of the ultimate goal or objective. That object for you (and all of us windies) is to grow a business providing a service that will provided us with the daily necessities of life.