Unlicensed window cleaners (Scotland)

[ChrisTheHelp]

I wasn't going to mention this before @ChrisTheHelp.

Each one of us is bombarded with distractions that can take our focus away from what we are striving to accomplish. This effect us in all forms of our daily lives. Our old Managing Director at Bosch in South Africa used to regularily remind the sales staff of this American saying;

 "When you are up to your ass in alligators, it's easy to forget that your original objective was to drain the swamp."  (I believe that Ronald Regan also used this but used the word "armpits.")

It is easy to be so overcome or preoccupied by various tangential worries, concerns, problems, injustices or tasks that one loses sight of the ultimate goal or objective. That object for you (and all of us windies) is to grow a business providing a service that will provided us with the daily necessities of life.

That's very true and I agree.... to an extent. But living and working on an island with approximately 2500 residents (800 of which are kids) has challenges and every customer counts. Maybe I'm a mug for keeping to the rules when others don't. I don't know?

 

[scottish cleaning service]

Is the RBS still open? Mull is the home of golden eagles so i'm told. Regarding non license, at least these folk can't advertise.

 

[ChrisTheHelp]

Is the RBS still open? Mull is the home of golden eagles so i'm told. Regarding non license, at least these folk can't advertise.

No RBS anymore, but Clyde Bank is still going! Bloody eagle s%$£^ on the windows everywhere here.  :1f602:  Re: Licensing... they advertise on Everything Mull Facebook Page and do quite well from it. I contacted the Admins and they just said they expected people to do their own research into who is legal or not! WOW!!!!

 

[scottish cleaning service]

If they advertise then here's the proof. That's just sticking there two fingers up to the council that's meant to legislate it. The council should be made aware what's going on.

 

[doug atkinson]

No RBS anymore, but Clyde Bank is still going! Bloody eagle s%$£^ on the windows everywhere here.  :1f602:  Re: Licensing... they advertise on Everything Mull Facebook Page and do quite well from it. I contacted the Admins and they just said they expected people to do their own research into who is legal or not! WOW!!!!

Admins on what site ?

 

[Wind o kleen]

No RBS anymore, but Clyde Bank is still going! Bloody eagle s%$£^ on the windows everywhere here.  :1f602:  Re: Licensing... they advertise on Everything Mull Facebook Page and do quite well from it. I contacted the Admins and they just said they expected people to do their own research into who is legal or not! WOW!!!!

Do other trades like joiners / handymen need a license as-well ?

 

[scottish cleaning service]

Do other trades like joiners / handymen need a license as-well ?

Not at the moment but they are all working in houses with children and vulnerable adults. In the fullness of time it will happen and the likes of Peter Tobin will be found out before they start.

 

[Wind o kleen]

Not at the moment but they are all working in houses with children and vulnerable adults. In the fullness of time it will happen and the likes of Peter Tobin will be found out before they start.

So what’s the reason why window cleaners need one ? What’s stopping somebody doing rubbish removal and fly tipping it ?  

 

[scottish cleaning service]

So what’s the reason why window cleaners need one ? What’s stopping somebody doing rubbish removal and fly tipping it ?  

I believe it comes from undesirable window cleaners breaking into houses because they know they are empty. It was happening up here and the courts asked the councils to act.

 

[Wind o kleen]

I believe it comes from undesirable window cleaners breaking into houses because they know they are empty. It was happening up here and the courts asked the councils to act.

Makes sense now ,

the customers are the only people who can enforce that , by asking for Paper work when they get a quote from windy

 

[scottish cleaning service]

That's why Trust is above anything in window cleaning. There used to be a taxi driver up here who gave customers a lift to the airport and chat away with them and ask them how long they were away for. It took the police years to see a pattern emerging regarding house break-ins. The taxi driver passed on the info to undesirables who screwed their house when they were on holiday.

 

[Incheck]

Yup, i wouldn’t get involved. I wouldn’t really be for licensing in england/wales either. There’s very few things now that are old world (unregulated and free of red tape) window cleaning being one of them. I like it that way. We are nannied enough in this country...no-one wants a nanny state worse than it already is. Seen articles in the news about windies in their 60’s, 70’s and even 80’s who’ve been at it since the 40’s,50’s & 60’s. I wouldn’t want the world to be telling these folk or us that they suddenly need official documentation. 

Apart from health and safety, the old world (my fathers generation) generally seems more enjoyable from an outside perspective and ive often wished i was born a lot earlier. 

Got no real problem with bucket bobs. A lot of them do a better job than those with fully kitted systems, round here anyway. Its quite hard to do a bad job trad in my opinion, much easier to do a poor job wfp. 
Plumbing is unregulated, so is handyman work etc so i dont see why window cleaning should be. Window cleaning was an easy avenue for me when i had my back to the wall and i made something out of nothing from it, i’ll never forget that and wouldn’t deny somebody else the opportunity.  
Licensing would cost us more. The customers will not pay more. Equipment costs are already rising faster than the rate we can comfortably raise prices. Van insurance went up £100 this year too. One more piece of paper to deal with and faff about applying for, one more barrier, one more expense. Qualified licenced professionals can still be dodgey look at for example medical professionals turned serial killers and big bankers/government officials etc who have been involved in multi million scandals. Some of the biggest criminals in the world wear the mask of legitimacy. A bad egg is a bad egg no amount of paperwork or professional image can change that. Some of the best roofers/plumbers etc that i know look rough and ready with teeth missing ciggy in mouth, tattoos no uniform, thick accents etc. I have also encountered those (with good intentions don’t get me wrong) with shiny new vans, clean hair cuts, uniforms & who speak oxford english, who are often less experienced. the cleaner image could easily pull the wool over the eyes.
Generally get better and more affordable service from local traders as well, as opposed to big national companies. But not always

 

[doug atkinson]

Licensing does improve prices as the Council I cleaned windows average price was £2.50 a house then a lot of window cleaner disappeared so you get £6.50 a house. This is as 8 years ago. Those who are not in Scotland it’s a total different game here. Per ratio to household there is probably 40% more window cleaners than elsewhere 

 

[Part Timer]

Licensing does improve prices as the Council I cleaned windows average price was £2.50 a house then a lot of window cleaner disappeared so you get £6.50 a house. This is as 8 years ago. Those who are not in Scotland it’s a total different game here. Per ratio to household there is probably 40% more window cleaners than elsewhere 

Don't know where you got the figures from as South of the border there's no way you can calculate as there's no registration. All I do know is if there's more Windies per capita in Scotland than the NE of England then I'd be very surprised 

 

[ChrisTheHelp]

If they advertise then here's the proof. That's just sticking there two fingers up to the council that's meant to legislate it. The council should be made aware what's going on.

I agree. I'll be on to the Local Authority tomorrow! 

 

[scottish cleaning service]

I agree. I'll be on to the Local Authority tomorrow! 

As for Mull, I would be building log cabins for birdwatchers to live in. Tourism on the West Coast won't be cooling down in my life time with all those Chinese and Russians visiting so my relative told me. She owns a BnB in Skye which is full up all year round.

 

[ChrisTheHelp]

Update......

One of the unlicensed cleaners is moving onto other things, so that one will sort itself out.

As for the other unlicensed cleaner..... I sent him a polite message reminding him that window cleaning is a licensed activity in Soctland, but he didn't respond (unsupprisingly). He's since picked up a few other customers in the area so he seems to be carrying on regardless.

• So, I'll be contacting the Enforcement Officer with supporting evidence. 
  
• I'll contact the Local Authority Licensing Dept, objecting to any future application for a license by the person in question.
  
• I've advertised a Charity window clean on the same Facebook page/group that he's advetising on. Its targeting the areas he's working next week. (I was organising the charity window clean anyway, as part of a fundraiser I'm doing for Macmillan Cancer Support, so it achieves two aims at once.) It'll raise my profile as a 'licensed and insured' window cleaner - with a heart. It will send a message to him! He'll either move on or I'll keep applying pressure until he realises its just not worth it.
  

Whether any of us agree with Licensing or not the fact of the matter is that Licensing is a reality in Scotland. It's manditory, as is insurance. I expect people to work by the rules and be honourabel. Working unlicensed shows a lack or regard for both customers and others in the industry. I won't accept that.

Its been argued that this is a guy who could be on his uppers and just trying to keep a roof over his head, and his family's. Respectfully.....******** to that. I got into window cleaning initially because my partner was diagnosed with cancer. We worked together and lived in a tied-house, which came with the job. If she didn't recover from cancer she would loose her job, and I would loose mine (as it was a domestic couple position). If we lost our jobs we would also loose our home too. 

Window cleaning was something that was needed in the area but not done by anyone else at the time. I registered with HMRC, I got insurance and I got licensed - then I started work. It all cost money I didn't have and I had to borrow it. If you've tried holding down two jobs, caring for someone with cancer and had to work around weekly hospital visits which require a five-and-a-half hour journey EACH WAY, you'll know life isn't always easy. But nevertheless I set my business up the right way, instead of say "the rules don't apply to me because life's a bit ****."

Everyone has tough times and I hope they get the support I got from a great many wonderful people. But there's no excuse for not playing by the rules. If he needed work he could have contacted me, but he took a different route. He'll find he made a bad choice I'm afraid.

P.S. My parter has (almost) recovered now and is back to happily nagging me on a regular basis.  :1f602:

 

[scottish cleaning service]

I see my life as cycles. You generally get 7yrs of a great time where everything just fits into place, that's what I am in which begun in February this year. No matter what I have done since February the work keeps coming in. Every job I have done has went well bar my wfp work but by acting quick I managed to spin it in my favour. I re-done all the glass by going back to trading the glass and all my customers were more than happy bar one who cancelled. I only had that customer one month and I knew she would leave. I re-invest all my takings into new equipment which makes my working life easier and gets me more work. I have always been surrounded by naysayers which one uses as a springboard to success. Battery gardening tools is my next venture, charging a score a time to cut grass.

 

[ChrisTheHelp]

I see my life as cycles. You generally get 7yrs of a great time where everything just fits into place, that's what I am in which begun in February this year. No matter what I have done since February the work keeps coming in. Every job I have done has went well bar my wfp work but by acting quick I managed to spin it in my favour. I re-done all the glass by going back to trading the glass and all my customers were more than happy bar one who cancelled. I only had that customer one month and I knew she would leave. I re-invest all my takings into new equipment which makes my working life easier and gets me more work. I have always been surrounded by naysayers which one uses as a springboard to success. Battery gardening tools is my next venture, charging a score a time to cut grass.

I can't argue with that! Pleased its all going from strength to strength. Integraty pays eh.  :1f44d:

 

[scottish cleaning service]

I can't argue with that! Pleased its all going from strength to strength. Integraty pays eh.  :1f44d:

 Will give you another nugget that a builder told me when he was working in a professor's house. Its called disease job syndrom and I thought he was making it up. Anyway, its when you price a job too low, everything seems to go wrong and it never seems to end. There's a simple reason for it happening. Deep down you know you have priced it too low and don't want to be there so you don't put your heart and soul into it and it just drags on and on. But when you price a job high then you can't wait to get there and get it finished to get the well paid money. I have a job like that at the moment and now the neighbour wants her half of the driveway slabbed like her neighbour's. Just wish she had told me at the beginning and would have made my life a lot easier, maybe she waited to see if I would have made a good job of it.

 

[Master Jedi Alejandro]

Update......

One of the unlicensed cleaners is moving onto other things, so that one will sort itself out.

As for the other unlicensed cleaner..... I sent him a polite message reminding him that window cleaning is a licensed activity in Soctland, but he didn't respond (unsupprisingly). He's since picked up a few other customers in the area so he seems to be carrying on regardless.

• So, I'll be contacting the Enforcement Officer with supporting evidence. 
  
• I'll contact the Local Authority Licensing Dept, objecting to any future application for a license by the person in question.
  
• I've advertised a Charity window clean on the same Facebook page/group that he's advetising on. Its targeting the areas he's working next week. (I was organising the charity window clean anyway, as part of a fundraiser I'm doing for Macmillan Cancer Support, so it achieves two aims at once.) It'll raise my profile as a 'licensed and insured' window cleaner - with a heart. It will send a message to him! He'll either move on or I'll keep applying pressure until he realises its just not worth it.
  

Whether any of us agree with Licensing or not the fact of the matter is that Licensing is a reality in Scotland. It's manditory, as is insurance. I expect people to work by the rules and be honourabel. Working unlicensed shows a lack or regard for both customers and others in the industry. I won't accept that.

Its been argued that this is a guy who could be on his uppers and just trying to keep a roof over his head, and his family's. Respectfully.....******** to that. I got into window cleaning initially because my partner was diagnosed with cancer. We worked together and lived in a tied-house, which came with the job. If she didn't recover from cancer she would loose her job, and I would loose mine (as it was a domestic couple position). If we lost our jobs we would also loose our home too. 

Window cleaning was something that was needed in the area but not done by anyone else at the time. I registered with HMRC, I got insurance and I got licensed - then I started work. It all cost money I didn't have and I had to borrow it. If you've tried holding down two jobs, caring for someone with cancer and had to work around weekly hospital visits which require a five-and-a-half hour journey EACH WAY, you'll know life isn't always easy. But nevertheless I set my business up the right way, instead of say "the rules don't apply to me because life's a bit ****."

Everyone has tough times and I hope they get the support I got from a great many wonderful people. But there's no excuse for not playing by the rules. If he needed work he could have contacted me, but he took a different route. He'll find he made a bad choice I'm afraid.

P.S. My parter has (almost) recovered now and is back to happily nagging me on a regular basis.  :1f602:

Mate, just be careful. Some folk are reasonable and are happy to cause you issues. You may be best just letting it be and focusing on your own work and life. You’ve obviously had battles in your own life and well know they’ll always be another battle to wage, better not to take on extra ones.