cost of your van and system

[Omega]

How does one know? I'm currently shopping for a bigger system and I really don't know what to do. Grippa are crash tested, along with Pure Freedom. WCW and Waterworks don't crash test but there systems are by far the smartest looking and there powered reels look amazing, but I'm worried they not as safe. 

As much I respect manufacturers that demonstrate crash testing, one must consider that these tests are typically 30mph moving vehicle into a static object.

in reality the forces through your vehicle go up exponentially with more speed. A 60mph crash into static object is not double a 30mph impact.

my point is that the reality of these things being safe is not truly tested or verified if you had a severe accident when tested/based on 30mph testing alone. I don’t mean to be negative as I appreciate testing can only be done to a point but it’s worth bearing in mind with these things.

when you also consider the ages of vans and their ability to absorb and distribute force in the event of an accident it becomes all that more mind boggling. A newer van will likely have more advanced crash impact absorption built into is. An older one will not.

go for something tested but don’t assume it’s a given to protect you just because  

my overall point is you should understand this and also ensure driving is safe and defensive as it could be your life or an employees at risk. I stress this all the time that the payload itself is potentially very dangerous regardless.

a little off topic in a way I know but it could save a life when it comes to tanks in the backs of our vans. 

 

[Rocco]

This is what I'm.getting in my high top transit van for 2000

 

[ched999uk]

Good point @Omega I wonder if anyone is developing a tank that could burst on impact with the bulkhead? That way the water wouldn't transfer as much force?

 

[Wind o kleen]

This is what I'm.getting in my high top transit van for 2000

View attachment 21328

How did you find these?  

 

[Davy G]

Good point @Omega I wonder if anyone is developing a tank that could burst on impact with the bulkhead? That way the water wouldn't transfer as much force?

I have thought the same from when I started six years ago. A tank that would burst immediately and entirely in the event of a crash though not in the event of a slight prang would be my choice, if it were available. I believe some are supposed to have the filler cap pop off in the event but that won't empty a tank enough in the second it would take for it to crash into the cab, or in the case of a securely framed and bolted tank for the extra weight and momentum to help force the vehicle forward. I'd rather not have the weight behind me in an accident at all, no matter how well it might be secured.

A sacrificial tank would definitely get my vote. I think it's only a matter of time before the "experts" develop one.

 

[ched999uk]

This is what I'm.getting in my high top transit van for 2000

View attachment 21328

Looks a bit DIY to me. Looking at the 'company' name Google can't find it and the address looks very residential, plus no mention of Vat!!!

As long as you know if it's some one doing a diy job and you are happy with that. It's your choice.

 

[Rocco]

Looks a bit DIY to me. Looking at the 'company' name Google can't find it and the address looks very residential, plus no mention of Vat!!!

As long as you know if it's some one doing a diy job and you are happy with that. It's your choice.

I carnt find him either  but must be genuine he sells alot of Van's on Ebay 

 

[scottish cleaning service]

Good point @Omega I wonder if anyone is developing a tank that could burst on impact with the bulkhead? That way the water wouldn't transfer as much force?

The force would just go somewhere else. You can't change the laws of physics. A flat tank is probably the safest and not more than a foot high but would suffer from airlocks I guess. Our top brass designed a top heavy Aerial ladder platform with a large water tank and pump in it. It weighted 25 ton and did 4 mile to the gallon. First time it went round a small roundabout it fell over ? and they blamed the driver by stating he went to fast. A lot of rubbish, the thing was top heavy and was an accident in disguise. Another thing they never realised was the thing was running as a high reach, fire engine and rescue pump so it was out all the time. It was so technical that you needed a degree in computers to set it up at a fire. In the end they kept breaking down and a few guys from Finland came over to fix them and ended up staying here full-time with the amount of breakdowns. In the end, they told us they were made to do away with jobs thus saving money. Cost half a million each and we had 12 of them, God knows where they are now because we ended up going back to the original set-up of a high reach and a fire engine. Just like the job centres and staff, fairly soon they will be opening them up again to advertise for folk to run them, I suppose it will help the high street. ? 

 

[ched999uk]

I carnt find him either  but must be genuine he sells alot of Van's on Ebay 

If he is selling more than 7 a year he should have registered with is local council. Give his local trading standards a call and ask if he s registered! 

 

[Rocco]

Ok il ask thanks

 

[ched999uk]

Ok il ask thanks

I'm not saying don't use him just know if he's reputable. It's up to you.

 

[Pjj]

Good point @Omega I wonder if anyone is developing a tank that could burst on impact with the bulkhead? That way the water wouldn't transfer as much force?

That’s what happens with the burst lids fitted by some manufacturers when the tank deformed the lid blows off the water in the tank comes out like a whale spouting water hits the roof taking the impact damage upwards rather that it going into the bulk head , there are videos on line of this I watched several before deciding what systems to put in my vans , just cannot remember where they were now , might have been YouTube or manufacturers videos .

 

[Zenith]

So who are you?

I know - but Ive helped a member tonight personally as I promised I would.  I will damage my company if I am not careful so you will have to forgive me for wanting to ensure my competitors don't use my desire to help as a means of closing the gap. If this goes against forum rules I can step away if it is not acceptable.

 

[Zenith]

My Speedliner alone cost £600!

Correct - but nothing is better.

 

[Omega]

Good point @Omega I wonder if anyone is developing a tank that could burst on impact with the bulkhead? That way the water wouldn't transfer as much force?

I have someone working on a revised design which we think is going to be miles better than anything else on the market.

while we don’t want to diversify into everything window cleaning, the cost is likely going to be similar to buying and installing 10 current market crash tested tanks for when we reach this point (more of a back burner however)

most tank systems are quite simple and lack significant development over the last 10 years.

when you compare this to how car manufacturers have developed and improved vehicle safety through mass force damping and crumple zones there is a big disparity between the progress compared to our tanks.

i do wonder if a new tank comes onto the market which is proven to withstand a higher speed impact of anyone would actually be bothered to buy it. 
this then makes you wonder that is prob the reason it’s not been developed much further.

many window cleaners I come across are dismissive of the technical safety

 

[cleaniac]

I know I will get slaughtered for saying this..but here goes...? £30k for a tank, some hose reels, and a bit of bolting up.?.someone is being ripped off there.

£2000 is way way way enough for a decent tank, hose, pump and di and ro. Fit it yourself, as long as you stay within the payload of the vehicle,  just fix/bolt to the factory loading points that are welded and designed into the chassis anyway for the correct payload, make sure you have a bulkhead you will be fine.

I once knew a local window cleaner who has since given up and sold off his van and equipment and gone back to building..he bought an ioconics thermopure system, brand new van the setup must of been around the ballpark of 30 grand...ludicrous money for a water tank with flashy stickers slapped on it..

He was dead proud of it at first, but became increasingly frustrated with being tied into the ionics nonsense with servicing, fixing it when it went wrong (and it did frequently) and having to find 800 quid a month in payments for the damn thing. He never made any money and complained about his customers constantly when we used to chat, clearly under far too much financial pressure he sold the business to someone else, and then after a while they seemed to also disappear off the face of the planet, I know as I picked up a load of work from his ex customers when they stopped coming.

I too fell for the marketing nonsense of these water fed system companies. When I first got into wfp I bought a Brodex system, what a piece of garbage that was, constantly breaking, having to go back to Brodex to buy what would normally be inexpensive plumbing fittings from a plumbing merchant, fittings from Brodex with horrendous markup, con con con..

Bedliner is another con, modern vans have adequate rust protection actually forged into the chemical makeup of the steel itself these days. 

Have you ever had to remove Bedliner? It's a nightmare, and will trap condensation against it and the metal anyway forcing it to corrode. Not to mention you need to replace a fuel pump in the fuel tank, or you need to access the chassis floor for servicing..

But at the end of the day if your happy to work hard to line the pockets of these companies that market these snake oil machines (which is what they are for these 30k machines) then you are welcome to. We also have an engineering business and you can get engineering equipment like lathes and mills for not much more than 30k.. ??? and those machines are propper precision instruments, not a plastic tank with a pump and some clever graphics slapped on the side..

Personally I prefer to reap the rewards of my work and keep my cash in my pocket, which is sort of the whole point of being in business..???

I await the onslaught of defence from those who waste their cash...?

 

[dmw]

I bought a 3 year old Peugeot partner van with 55k and fsh at £5500 inc vat.

I then protectacoted it and left it a good week, then had Grippatank come up north and do a driveway fit which took a day that was a 500 litre  twin double di system with auto shut off and split charge relay (I've never once charged the battery in 3 and a half years) so I just connect it to my garden tap and 40 minutes later good to go. It cost me £4000 inc vat and that also included a 25slx with 10% discount deal.

So all in all the van and system owed me about £10,000 all in.

Last week the van passed another mot needing 2 front tyres so no big deal.

All in all you can do it cheaper if you want but i wanted a safe and reliable van and system so took this route as I said I did this over 3 years ago and I've never missed a working day because I bought a recent van and Grippatank have dealt with any queries or sent parts out promptly.  

The only addition I've made is I've added a waterworks powereel to the setup which I fitted last week and it's quicker and easier to reel in which is nice.

The thing with this job is you can get a decent starter van and system on ebay for £3,000 or get a brand new van and Grippatank hot diesel heated  system and spend £30,000. 

It's your choice, I think I fall between the two.

 

[wezza13]

I bought : 

350l water tank Second hand £60

Steel Upright Tank Frame £180

Pure Freedom Pump and Controller new £190

Claber Hose Reel New £40

Leisure Battery New £110

That all cost the princely sum of £580 and I can change components if I ever need to. Easy to install too.

 

[cleaniac]

I bought a 3 year old Peugeot partner van with 55k and fsh at £5500 inc vat.

I then protectacoted it and left it a good week, then had Grippatank come up north and do a driveway fit which took a day that was a 500 litre  twin double di system with auto shut off and split charge relay (I've never once charged the battery in 3 and a half years) so I just connect it to my garden tap and 40 minutes later good to go. It cost me £4000 inc vat and that also included a 25slx with 10% discount deal.

So all in all the van and system owed me about £10,000 all in.

Last week the van passed another mot needing 2 front tyres so no big deal.

All in all you can do it cheaper if you want but i wanted a safe and reliable van and system so took this route as I said I did this over 3 years ago and I've never missed a working day because I bought a recent van and Grippatank have dealt with any queries or sent parts out promptly.  

The only addition I've made is I've added a waterworks powereel to the setup which I fitted last week and it's quicker and easier to reel in which is nice.

The thing with this job is you can get a decent starter van and system on ebay for £3,000 or get a brand new van and Grippatank hot diesel heated  system and spend £30,000. 

It's your choice, I think I fall between the two.

There is  nothing wrong with spending money on a "branded" system, and I will concede that there is a certain piece of mind knowing that is fitted, ready to go.

And grippatank do have a good reputation, £5k isn't horrendous either..

But these big 20k 30k hot systems, nahhh they are ripping you off. Your doing nothing but financing their next holiday to Disneyworld for the 3rd time that year..?

 

[Zenith]

There is  nothing wrong with spending money on a "branded" system, and I will concede that there is a certain piece of mind knowing that is fitted, ready to go.

And grippatank do have a good reputation, £5k isn't horrendous either..

But these big 20k 30k hot systems, nahhh they are ripping you off. Your doing nothing but financing their next holiday to Disneyworld for the 3rd time that year..?

I would like to see you clean a hospital or raceway / football club stadium with a 5k 500l cold water system. Horses for courses; but I take your point & as far as I am aware Grippa tank systems are not crash tested or come with installation certificates. As an employer my concerns & yours, if you ever become one, are about safety, liability & reliability. Put simply, if they won't stand behind their machinery & installation standards I refuse to stand in front of them & pay with my life; or worse, someone elses.

 

[Zenith]

I know I will get slaughtered for saying this..but here goes...? £30k for a tank, some hose reels, and a bit of bolting up.?.someone is being ripped off there.

£2000 is way way way enough for a decent tank, hose, pump and di and ro. Fit it yourself, as long as you stay within the payload of the vehicle,  just fix/bolt to the factory loading points that are welded and designed into the chassis anyway for the correct payload, make sure you have a bulkhead you will be fine.

I once knew a local window cleaner who has since given up and sold off his van and equipment and gone back to building..he bought an ioconics thermopure system, brand new van the setup must of been around the ballpark of 30 grand...ludicrous money for a water tank with flashy stickers slapped on it..

He was dead proud of it at first, but became increasingly frustrated with being tied into the ionics nonsense with servicing, fixing it when it went wrong (and it did frequently) and having to find 800 quid a month in payments for the damn thing. He never made any money and complained about his customers constantly when we used to chat, clearly under far too much financial pressure he sold the business to someone else, and then after a while they seemed to also disappear off the face of the planet, I know as I picked up a load of work from his ex customers when they stopped coming.

I too fell for the marketing nonsense of these water fed system companies. When I first got into wfp I bought a Brodex system, what a piece of garbage that was, constantly breaking, having to go back to Brodex to buy what would normally be inexpensive plumbing fittings from a plumbing merchant, fittings from Brodex with horrendous markup, con con con..

Bedliner is another con, modern vans have adequate rust protection actually forged into the chemical makeup of the steel itself these days. 

Have you ever had to remove Bedliner? It's a nightmare, and will trap condensation against it and the metal anyway forcing it to corrode. Not to mention you need to replace a fuel pump in the fuel tank, or you need to access the chassis floor for servicing..

But at the end of the day if your happy to work hard to line the pockets of these companies that market these snake oil machines (which is what they are for these 30k machines) then you are welcome to. We also have an engineering business and you can get engineering equipment like lathes and mills for not much more than 30k.. ??? and those machines are propper precision instruments, not a plastic tank with a pump and some clever graphics slapped on the side..

Personally I prefer to reap the rewards of my work and keep my cash in my pocket, which is sort of the whole point of being in business..???

I await the onslaught of defence from those who waste their cash...?

This on the other-hand is absolutely true about Ionics & it was true 18 years ago. It's a very smart closed system service loop, no different to Apple in many ways, that once you are in their ecosystem you are tied to their peripherals. But them, Brodes & Omnipole never had any real competition until Outreach, X-Line & Purefreedom showed up. Totally agree with everything you said.?