Go carefull on the ladders guys

[purpleroad]

@Adams0211 go carefull mate  on your gutter cleans

Was good footings dug in to the grass.

The roof was a bit slippy and just lost my footing with 1 foot on the ladder and 1 on the roof.

Glad I had 1 on the roof as catching my foot is what saved me I am 

So did the ladder slide or did u slip off it? I'm  not sure why you slipped?

 

[Dave B]

So did the ladder slide or did u slip off it? I'm  not sure why you slipped?

A bit of both really.

You tend to get a bit complacent using ladders all the time.

I put 1 foot out to see how grippy the roof was and the ladder moved at the same time.

A noob wouldn't take the same chances that a 28 year tradder would.

Complacency can kill.

 

[scottish cleaning service]

A bit of both really.

You tend to get a bit complacent using ladders all the time.

I put 1 foot out to see how grippy the roof was and the ladder moved at the same time.

A noob wouldn't take the same chances that a 28 year tradder would.

Complacency can kill.

I nearly broke my neck last Monday morning just walking out my back gate. Black ice everywhere apart from my decking because I have fitted anti-slip strips in case I slip. I have a path made with monoblock and it was also fine. Today I was talking to a customer who is also a nurse. She said the frature department was inundated with people slipping on the ice, Its worse if it happens on a Monday for some reason. fwiw

 

[NoName]

You're 100% right Dave it's sobering to read what the authority (HSE) who deal every day with injuries and deaths caused from ladder use, say, they make salient sensible recommendations...

https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg455.pdf

Navel (belly button ?) to remain inside the styles at all times

Three points of contact (e.g two feet and one hand) at all times

Ladders should not be used to access another level,unless designed to do so..

Have strong upper resting point (avoid gutters)

IMO these simple 4 advisories should be our 4 commandments...would pevent many injuries

 

[Dave B]

I'm now covered in bruises like this which shows how hard I hit the ground even after slowing right down when my leg caught in the rungs. 

 

[purpleroad]

You're 100% right Dave it's sobering to read what the authority (HSE) who deal every day with injuries and deaths caused from ladder use, say, they make salient sensible recommendations...

https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg455.pdf

Navel (belly button ?) to remain inside the styles at all times

Three points of contact (e.g two feet and one hand) at all times

Ladders should not be used to access another level,unless designed to do so..

Have strong upper resting point (avoid gutters)

IMO these simple 4 advisories should be our 4 commandments...would pevent many injuries

The bit which says not used to access other levels is tricky.   I guess tie ladder if you're going to climb off it onto a flat roof or something  or use microlite on the roof

 

[Dave B]

Simple I'm just not doing those jobs now.

Got enough work that I have a guy starting February on the glass for me and then working on the next one while I just concentrate on pressure washing and softwash etc and getting a gutter vac for those jobs.

Took the bars off my roof this morning before work and binned off the 5 jobs that need them.

Anyone want 6.5m 2 section werner ladders 2 months old for cheap let me know.

 

[NoName]

The bit which says not used to access other levels is tricky.   I guess tie ladder if you're going to climb off it onto a flat roof or something  or use microlite on the roof

Yeah that's a one tricky Purple, for flat roofs etc tying off is ideal, but where it's not practical, I think HSE advise using a 'ladder stabilising device', (i.e ankalads do a great job to mitigate left/right slide) coupled with extending the top of the ladder at least 1m above the level, so you can hold the ladder as you step off/on, rationale being it minimises the 'sideway push' force exerted as your foot steps off/on (also a lot less likely to slip/stumble) Nothing's ever 100% but I figure the HSE make their recommendations based on investigations post accidents so the more mitigations we implement the more it should reduce the risk correspondingly. It's not about perfection but avoiding the classic oversights which lead to falls...e.g Pareto (80/20) principle 80% deaths/serious injurers are caused by 20% of the same unsafe behaviour...so a little prevention goes a long way...HSE gets a bad rap but it's totally there for our (the worker's) benefit.  

 

[mike007]

Yeah that's a one tricky Purple, for flat roofs etc tying off is ideal, but where it's not practical, I think HSE advise using a 'ladder stabilising device', (i.e ankalads do a great job to mitigate left/right slide) coupled with extending the top of the ladder at least 1m above the level, so you can hold the ladder as you step off/on, rationale being it minimises the 'sideway push' force exerted as your foot steps off/on (also a lot less likely to slip/stumble) Nothing's ever 100% but I figure the HSE make their recommendations based on investigations post accidents so the more mitigations we implement the more it should reduce the risk correspondingly. It's not about perfection but avoiding the classic oversights which lead to falls...e.g Pareto (80/20) principle 80% deaths/serious injurers are caused by 20% of the same unsafe behaviour...so a little prevention goes a long way...HSE gets a bad rap but it's totally there for our (the worker's) benefit.  

My, we window cleaners are a clever lot ie. knowing the Pareto principle etc, looking out to see one of us on Mastermind soon...though not sure what the speciality subject would be.

 

[tench0771]

Hope ur ok dave defo a brown trouser moment ?

 

[purpleroad]

Yeah that's a one tricky Purple, for flat roofs etc tying off is ideal, but where it's not practical, I think HSE advise using a 'ladder stabilising device', (i.e ankalads do a great job to mitigate left/right slide) coupled with extending the top of the ladder at least 1m above the level, so you can hold the ladder as you step off/on, rationale being it minimises the 'sideway push' force exerted as your foot steps off/on (also a lot less likely to slip/stumble) Nothing's ever 100% but I figure the HSE make their recommendations based on investigations post accidents so the more mitigations we implement the more it should reduce the risk correspondingly. It's not about perfection but avoiding the classic oversights which lead to falls...e.g Pareto (80/20) principle 80% deaths/serious injurers are caused by 20% of the same unsafe behaviour...so a little prevention goes a long way...HSE gets a bad rap but it's totally there for our (the worker's) benefit.  

I used the ankalad to stop left and right movement on this flat roof.  The angle is appalling but it's butted up against gravelboard. 

When the lady's not in I'm gonna drill an ibolt hole for the future

 

[scottish cleaning service]

Do you know what we should always have in our pocket when using ladders?

A small bungee cord or rope, the moment you reach the top then you tee the ladder off around the gutter bracket.

 

[Tango]

The angle is appalling but it's butted up against gravelboard. 

At that angle you're at risk of the ladder collapsing under you - by that i mean folding inwards towards the ground. Those retangular alloy bars are find for supporting weight that is vertically stacked on them but not so much for horizontal weight. Then you're also reliant on the fittings between the two sections being up to scratch...

I'm not saying it will definitely implode but the risk of it increases. Just be careful matey and always keep and eye on the hooks between sections because if they work themselves loose that you're life at risk.

Do you know what we should always have in our pocket when using ladders?

A small bungee cord or rope, the moment you reach the top then you tee the ladder off around the gutter bracket.

Gutter brackets are very weak though and would never stop your ladder falling sideways with your weight on it. It would keep it in place if you're climing up onto a roof though.. but then who puts a ladder against a gutter anyway? - I won't! Don't want to damage it.

 

[NoName]

Oooh purple that does look horrible I agree ?… surely you can get the ladders to a near 75 angle and splay the stabilisers out (just move that rubbish in your way)? Ditto tango's concerns, ladder stablishing devices are designed to compliment good ladder use fundamentals, which are our primary safeguard. (75 degree lean/good footing/contact at top)

Personally I think you've increased your risk of an (foot thru rung etc) accident rather then reducing it, by putting too much value on the 'security' that gravel board gives you. tail wagging dog imo ? 

 

[Iron Giant]

I used the ankalad to stop left and right movement on this flat roof.  The angle is appalling but it's butted up against gravelboard. 

When the lady's not in I'm gonna drill an ibolt hole for the future

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View attachment 18732

If that's a regular job I would ask her to tidy up, but still baffled why the ladder is at that angle when you could have dragged that red trug and plant pots out and put the ladder up at a normal angle. would have took seconds

 

[purpleroad]

If that's a regular job I would ask her to tidy up, but still baffled why the ladder is at that angle when you could have dragged that red trug and plant pots out and put the ladder up at a normal angle. would have took seconds

No weight in them.  It's a strong ladder so can handle my weight at the angle I set it at

At that angle you're at risk of the ladder collapsing under you - by that i mean folding inwards towards the ground. Those retangular alloy bars are find for supporting weight that is vertically stacked on them but not so much for horizontal weight. Then you're also reliant on the fittings between the two sections being up to scratch...

I'm not saying it will definitely implode but the risk of it increases. Just be careful matey and always keep and eye on the hooks between sections because if they work themselves loose that you're life at risk.

Gutter brackets are very weak though and would never stop your ladder falling sideways with your weight on it. It would keep it in place if you're climing up onto a roof though.. but then who puts a ladder against a gutter anyway? - I won't! Don't want to damage it.

Good point.  But a roofer told me my ladder would be fine at this angle.  It's a trade ladder and strong.  Before last new year there were three levels of ladder-DIY, trade and industrial. Mine is trade so strong.

You can also lock the ladder together with thos metal thing on the side to stop the two sections apart

 

[dmw]

No weight in them.  It's a strong ladder so can handle my weight at the angle I set it at

Good point.  But a roofer told me my ladder would be fine at this angle.  It's a trade ladder and strong.  Before last new year there were three levels of ladder-DIY, trade and industrial. Mine is trade so strong.

You can also lock the ladder together with thos metal thing on the side to stop the two sections apart

I'd have no qualms about running up that ladder I used to do it a lot when I was tradding, it's safely butted up against that gravel board so there is no chance of it kicking out, where as at a "normal" angle it could move as you transfer your weight onto the roof.

 

[purpleroad]

I'd have no qualms about running up that ladder I used to do it a lot when I was tradding, it's safely butted up against that gravel board so there is no chance of it kicking out, where as at a "normal" angle it could move as you transfer your weight onto the roof.

That's my feeling.  If it was at a more normal angle it would be more likely to slide left or right. What it rests on is slippy.

I'm going to put a bolt into wall at some point so can tie ladder and put at normal angle.   How you best tie it?   When I tried it before it moved a bit and wasn't tight enough

 

[NoName]

Purple you're free of course to use your ladders how you see fit (unless you employ someone, then you're have legal obligations...of course)

Excerpt below from HSE show options descending in preference...you see option 3 is what you did, to wedge, BUT option 2 above it recommends use of stability device as a preference, which you have (Anaklad) these prevent the left/ right slip scenario which you feared...check out their site for pics on tying off.

These guys know their stuff, they deal with deaths/falls/injuries day in /day out  and then devise these approach's based on knowledge collected from a range of sources and then devise solutions to mitigate the risks, which they helpfully list in sequence of efficacity i.e tying off is more secure than have some numbty with his foot resting on the last rung 

I'm sure all free climbers feel safe in their own abilities ("I've never had a fall") until they wind whizzes past their ears as they reach terminal velocity...   


Do I have to tie my ladder?


Ladders have to be prevented from slipping during use. The options for securing a ladder are as follows:

• tie the ladder to a suitable point making sure both stiles are tied
  
• where this is not practicable, use a ladder stability device
  
• if this is not possible then securely wedge the ladder eg against a wall
  
• if none of the above are possible then foot the ladder - footing is the last resort and should be avoided where possible by the use of other methods
  

For more information on ladder safety see: Safe use of ladders and stepladders, or go to the Ladder Association website.

 

[dmw]

That's my feeling.  If it was at a more normal angle it would be more likely to slide left or right. What it rests on is slippy.

I'm going to put a bolt into wall at some point so can tie ladder and put at normal angle.   How you best tie it?   When I tried it before it moved a bit and wasn't tight enough

I've never felt the need to do it personally, but I've seen the Sky chap drill an hole, screw in a bolt with eye at the end and connect a ratchet straps to the eye and parallel rung of the ladder. I believe the Sky chaos have to do this as part of HandS.

 

[NoName]

DMW you're right - whenever they use their ladders even if they are only going up a couple of rungs, it must be tied off - on pain of sacking - and they do spot checks - return to completed jobs...no drill hole (I.e it wasn't tied off) = dismissed ?