Resin Shortage In The Uk

[spruce]

Are these units difficult to plumb in?

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Is this posted to the wrong thread or are you refering to the photo of the tds meter earlier?

If its the tds meter then its easy. You just need to know what size piping you have so you get the right connectors.

If this refers to the flush valve on the other thread "best r/o" then again its easy. You just push your pipe into the connectors as you would any John Guest fitting.

 

[Corps012588]

Sorry I meant the whole R/O system.
My fill line currently operates from an extension pipe out to the laundry room and a t section as it spurs between my line and the washing machine.
This is all using pretty normal hose so I guess I would need some kind of reducer or do the R/O systems need to be plumbed into copper piping?
I am so sorry for all the questions

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[Neilmnwc]

 
depends on your TDS and water costs
 
my water is £1.28 per 1000 litres so at 50/50 thats will do a day, so about 6.50 a week in water
 
for me its cheaper to R.O than d.i even in a meter at my tds, which tends to be around 140 TDS
 
actually scratch that, you pay sewerage as well right? dont know costs yet as only had the meter a few days
 
but anyway, rather pay more water than run out of resin

I’m sure it works the same for other water suppliers, I’m on a meter and with Anglian Water. I rang them up and queried my surface water drainage charge as all my run off goes into a soak away rather than the sewage system (customer told me about it) As a result they have rebated me some of the charges I’d paid to date and adjusted my DD. It worked out an extra £9.00 pcm on top of my domestic rates.


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[adamangler]

I’m sure it works the same for other water suppliers, I’m on a meter and with Anglian Water. I rang them up and queried my surface water drainage charge as all my run off goes into a soak away rather than the sewage system (customer told me about it) As a result they have rebated me some of the charges I’d paid to date and adjusted my DD. It worked out an extra £9.00 pcm on top of my domestic rates.


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yep rang my water board today, someone is ringing me back to confirm but the options i were given were

1. water board install a sub meter, cost £500

2. I fit my own meter and submit readings quarterly and they will adjust my bill, with a reduction in sewerage costs for the water used.

Ive gone for option 2 btw

 

[spruce]

yep rang my water board today, someone is ringing me back to confirm but the options i were given were

1. water board install a sub meter, cost £500

2. I fit my own meter and submit readings quarterly and they will adjust my bill, with a reduction in sewerage costs for the water used.

Ive gone for option 2 btw

I suggest you take your readings every month and record the date and the amount. There is always a chance that they surprise you with a visit from time to time.

The r/o water you use is tax deductable as an expense. So you will need to have those figures ready for the tax man. You will need to know how much each cubic meter of water, waste + pure, costs. So it will be easy to work out the annual water costs using those figures. Don't forget to take readings on the last day of each tax year and the first day of the new tax year. You will know what the sewage refund is, so you will have to calculate that into the equation as well.

 

[Neilmnwc]

I suggest you take your readings every month and record the date and the amount. There is always a chance that they surprise you with a visit from time to time.

The r/o water you use is tax deductable as an expense. So you will need to have those figures ready for the tax man. You will need to know how much each cubic meter of water, waste + pure, costs. So it will be easy to work out the annual water costs using those figures. Don't forget to take readings on the last day of each tax year and the first day of the new tax year. You will know what the sewage refund is, so you will have to calculate that into the equation as well.

I should have mentioned that I had a local plumber fit a sub meter, it was £25 from Amazon. Cost me about £100 labour and parts.

AW only want a reading yearly from the sub meter.

you will also qualify for a sewage refund for the clean water that leaves the RO and goes into sewage as you’re not actually using it. I have them a rough guide of my pure/waste ratio. 

Hope this helps.

 

[adamangler]

Just to clarify here

is it just the waste amount you would get a deduction on or the waste plus pure?

actually im not sure what a sewrage allowance if for? if the waste from R.O goes straight down the drain isnt that going back into a sewer? if so why would i get sewerage cost relief on it, what about pure water that i clean windows with, that doesnt go down a drain it soaks into the ground usually so it sewerage relief for the pure water and not the waste water?   :1f635:

also for tax i take it its the waste and pure you will get a relief on not just the pure as you have "used" all that water for your business in effect

thanks

 

[spruce]

Just to clarify here

is it just the waste amount you would get a deduction on or the waste plus pure? Waste + pure.

actually im not sure what a sewrage allowance if for? treatment of sewerage to return water to the rivers.

if the waste from R.O goes straight down the drain isnt that going back into a sewer? not if you live inland

if so why would i get sewerage cost relief on it, what about pure water that i clean windows with, that doesnt go down a drain it soaks into the ground usually so it sewerage relief for the pure water and not the waste water? you get sewerage relief on waste and pure  :1f635:

also for tax i take it its the waste and pure you will get a relief on not just the pure as you have "used" all that water for your business in effect you don't claim against tax for your sewerage relief - you get that back from your water authority. You claim the total cost of your water element against tax, not the sewerage element.

thanks

The water authority charge you for processing sewage to make it safe to return to the rivers.

Basically the WA charge you for providing you water and then charge you to take the used water away.

Inland there are 2 separate water systems, sewerage and surface water drainage. Your water from the roof is surface water and the water from your toilet etc is sewerage. Surface water doesn't need treatment and is either returned to the water system or used by the councils to water gardens etc. (On the coast its different - there is only one sewerage system and the rain water fron the roof and the toilet goes into the same pipe and is eventually discharged into the sea without much treatment.

But the water authority assumes that nearly every drop of water your household uses is going into the sewer so levies a charge for its treatment. They ignore the water that you use to water the garden, washing the car etc. None of the water you use through the r/o needs processing through sewage treatment. So the waste water from your r/o must go to either soak away or into the surface water drain, not into the sewage system. (So you have to pay for the water element but not the sewerage element.)

All the water you use through your r/o, the waste and the pure is not subject to a sewerage charge and obviously the pure that you use to clean windows isn't going to the drain either. So the total amount of water your r/o uses that quarter or that year will have the sewage element credited back to you.

Here's Northumbrian waters charges

Your annual water and sewerage services bill is made up of two parts:

• a fixed charge

• a charge for the amount you use, measured in cubic metres (m³). A cubic metre is 1,000 litres or 220 gallons.

For water you pay:

A fixed charge of £42.10    +  A charge of 121.05p per cubic metre

For sewerage you pay:

A fixed charge of £88.00    +   A charge of 116.39p per cubic metre

So our current water bill + sewerage is 237.44p per cubic meter. But we will only pay 121.05p for the water we use through the r/o.

So last year we used 156,000 liters (156 cubic meters) of water through our r/o (waste + pure.) We would pay the 237.44p per cubic but the water authority would refund 116.39p per cubic meter which means we will only pay the 121.05p per cubic meter.

So lets say our main meter says we used 200,000 liters of water last year.

We would get a bill for £474.88 plus the fixed charge of £130.00  = £604.88

We would then send in our meter reading for the amount of water we have used for window cleaning - 156 cubic meters.

The water authority will then deduct the sewerage element of the charges from this amount = £181.57. So our new water bill for the year is £604.88 - £181.57 =  £423.31.

What do we claim against tax? 156 x 1.2105p = £188.84

(We can't claim a portion of the fixed charge as we have to pay that anyway.)

Your charges could be slightly different to ours as some water authorities also have a fixed charge for the removal of surface water.

.

 

[adamangler]

The water authority charge you for processing sewage to make it safe to return to the rivers.

Basically the WA charge you for providing you water and then charge you to take the used water away.

Inland there are 2 separate water systems, sewerage and surface water drainage. Your water from the roof is surface water and the water from your toilet etc is sewerage. Surface water doesn't need treatment and is either returned to the water system or used by the councils to water gardens etc. (On the coast its different - there is only one sewerage system and the rain water fron the roof and the toilet goes into the same pipe and is eventually discharged into the sea without much treatment.

But the water authority assumes that every drop of water your household uses is going into the sewer so levies a charge for its treatment. They ignore the water that you use to water the garden, washing the car etc. None of the water you use through the r/o needs processing through sewage treatment. So the waste water from your r/o must go to either soak away or into the surface water drain, not into the sewage system. (So you have to pay for the water element but not the sewerage element.)

All the water you use through your r/o, the waste and the pure is not subject to a sewerage charge and obviously the pure that you use to clean windows isn't going to the drain either. So the total amount of water your r/o uses that quarter or that year will have the sewage element credited back to you.

Here's Northumbrian waters charges

Your annual water and sewerage services bill is made up of two parts:

• a fixed charge

• a charge for the amount you use, measured in cubic metres (m³). A cubic metre is 1,000 litres or 220 gallons.

For water you pay:

A fixed charge of £42.10    +  A charge of 121.05p per cubic metre

For sewerage you pay:

A fixed charge of £88.00    +   A charge of 116.39p per cubic metre

So our current water bill + sewerage is 237.44p per cubic meter. But we will only pay 121.05p for the water we use through the r/o.

So last year we used 156,000 liters (156 cubic meters) of water through our r/o (waste + pure.) We would pay the 237.44p per cubic but the water authority would refund 116.39p per cubic meter which means we will only pay the 121.05p per cubic meter.

So lets say our main meter says we used 200,000 liters of water last year.

We would get a bill for £474.88 plus the fixed charge of £130.00  = £604.88

We would then send in our meter reading for the amount of water we have used for window cleaning - 156 cubic meters.

The water authority will then deduct the sewerage element of the charges from this amount = £181.57. So our new water bill for the year is £604.88 - £181.57 =  £423.31.

What do we claim against tax? 156 x 1.2105p = £188.84

(We can't claim a portion of the fixed charge as we have to pay that anyway.)

Your charges could be slightly different to ours as some water authorities also have a fixed charge for the removal of surface water.

.

Cheers spruce now it makes sense. I had always assumed (never really thought about it) that all water from your house including gutters, toilet ,sink etc all went into the same system to be treated. Thanks 

So essentially if my RO is running 1:1 ratio and I use 2000l pure a week I'm using 4000l of water per week in total of which I would just pay the water rate (mine is 1.28 per 1000l) so under £6 a week on top of normal household bills. That's not bad at all then 

 

[spruce]

Cheers spruce now it makes sense. I had always assumed (never really thought about it) that all water from your house including gutters, toilet ,sink etc all went into the same system to be treated. This is the case on the coast, one of the reasons why they had Hull declared a seaside resort even although it isn't. Stockton on Tees has more of a claim to being a coastal city, but they have a sewerage treatment works. Thanks 

So essentially if my RO is running 1:1 ratio and I use 2000l pure a week I'm using 4000l of water per week in total of which I would just pay the water rate (mine is 1.28 per 1000l) so under £6 a week on top of normal household bills. You will initially be charged a sewerage levy on that r/o water but the WA will refund that when you give them your sub water meter readings. If your WA only requires these reading once a year then you need to be aware that your bills will be much higher every month until the refund comes through. I don't know how they exactly your WA will refund it, but if they give you a credit on your account you will be in credit with your water bill for a number of months. This is why I suggest you keep a record of your monthly submeter readings so it becomes easy for you to see what you must claim as business expenses against tax. You then claim the full amount against tax; in your case 1.28p per 1000 liters.

That's not bad at all then 

 

[con95a]

If in the scenario resin became very hard to come by, is a double R.O an option?
I know the set up cost would be a lot, but if 1st R.O. brings TDS down to somewhere between 5ppm - 20ppm, then run that through 2nd R.O, would that bring it down to 000ppm for a good while?
Has any one tried a double R.O?

Connor

 

[CleanerWindows]

Not sure if that would work (could be wrong though) because surely if your 1st is running efficiently you shouldnt need a second ro.
Mines currently going from 396ppm down to 002 before resin

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[Clisty1989]

If in the scenario resin became very hard to come by, is a double R.O an option?
I know the set up cost would be a lot, but if 1st R.O. brings TDS down to somewhere between 5ppm - 20ppm, then run that through 2nd R.O, would that bring it down to 000ppm for a good while?
Has any one tried a double R.O?

Connor
 

doubt you'll get the required pressure for the 2nd ro

 

[con95a]

doubt you'll get the required pressure for the 2nd ro

Yeah I was thinking that could be an issue.
I was just wondering what the options could be to get 000ppm pure water if resin was no longer an option. Are there any alternatives to resin?

Connor

 

[con95a]

Not sure if that would work (could be wrong though) because surely if your 1st is running efficiently you shouldnt need a second ro.Mines currently going from 396ppm down to 002 before resin

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Just thinking if there was no resin to polish off the water, and you wanted 000ppm. I know it wouldn't be the ideal way if it's possible

Connor

 

[Skxawng]

The double ro sounds like a good idea. You'd get 4/1 waste though. You wouldn't need a complete RO though as it wouldn't need prefilters so wouldn't need as much pressure to push though. Volume would be an issue though.

 What would happen if you had 3x 200gpd (can you get them in 10"?) membranes all feeding the product water into the input of 2x 150gpd membranes? (all set up in series with the waste from the first going to the next?)

Another idea to save water, have a tank filling on a float valve from the tap and use that with a booster pump as the input water- that then allows the waste from the 2nd set of 2x 150gpd (still pretty pure) to go back into the tank, so the waste is cut substantially.

Even Ro membranes that are too old for normal use could be used for the first Ro sorta like double di extending the life of your Ro for years.

I'm tempted to mess around with mine to see if it could work but it's currently producing 0ppm so don't want to mess with it. When it starts creeping up i might experiment a bit.

 

[Redditch windy]

wish my ro produced 2ppm or even 0! its doing 6ppm at moment

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[spruce]

A good working r/o membrane removes 98% of the dissolved solids in the water. The remaining 2% will be particles that are so small that they pass through the pores of the membrane material. If they pass through the first membrane then they are going to pass through the second membrane as well.

So I don't believe putting your pure through a second cycle will change anything of consequence.

 

[Tuffers]

Not sure if that would work (could be wrong though) because surely if your 1st is running efficiently you shouldnt need a second ro.
Mines currently going from 396ppm down to 002 before resin


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Blimey!! How are you getting it down to 002 from 396? Mine goes in at around 200 and comes out around 007 with good pressure. I use 20" prefilters and a 40" membrane. TDS coming out of DI has been 002 for weeks.

 

[Dave B]

That shouldn't be possible as that would be running over 99% efficient 

 

[doug atkinson]

Blimey!! How are you getting it down to 002 from 396? Mine goes in at around 200 and comes out around 007 with good pressure. I use 20" prefilters and a 40" membrane. TDS coming out of DI has been 002 for weeks.

Must be after DI as a membrane would not perform that good