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Two man set up...or not?



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spruce
6 hours ago, Daniel Perkins said:

As per usual a foundation of information, thanks mate.

 

Yeah I'm registering for VAT again, which can take time and then I will claim back the VAT on the van, so until that is setup and ready to go I have to hold out on the van. I jumped at the system on WCW because of the 25% off on black friday but ideally it would be nice to have a van to put it into lol. I suppose until I look under I won't really know. I wonder would it be easier having the tank length ways? That would be fine me actually if it meant making things easier under the chassis, don't fancy taking the chance with the fuel tank, I wouldn't be adverse to getting a Transit Connect lwb either but not many available over here at the moment. Is there much of a difference between the plain hex nut as oppose to the Nyloc hex? 

Unfortunately being located in Ireland it can be a bloody slow process ordering gear from the UK if something goes wrong with your order like it has in this case, i'm hoping that WCW can get it sorted quickly enough.

There is no difference as long as they are high tensile.

 

I'm sure you can register for VAT and then back claim later. I know there is a time limit but can remember what it is.

Edited by spruce

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Daniel Perkins

Perfect, i have ordered the charger, screws, bolts and plates & WCW got back to me and are sending the brackets so fingers crossed hopefully all is good. Appreciate all the help

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Den
5 minutes ago, Daniel Perkins said:

Perfect, i have ordered the charger, screws, bolts and plates & WCW got back to me and are sending the brackets so fingers crossed hopefully all is good. Appreciate all the help

Happy days not sure on the lastest compacts but where the battery compartment is there is a panel covering the compartment that is where the quick connector SAE connectors comes in real handy plus the sae connectors are cheap on eBay if you want to use the charger for anything else like motorhome for example. 

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Daniel Perkins

Yeah there is a plastic panel covering the battery, I honestly didn't get a chance to have a look because the weather has been awful and was lashing rain when I was initially moving it. Was so concerned with covering it up and protecting controller and battery that hardly looked, is it straight forward to charge the battery? When i'm moving it into the van is there an easy way to disconnect the battery from the tank? There isn't enough slack to put it on top of the tank so when we were moving the tank someone had to hold the battery as we were moving the tank.. was so awkward.

Edited by Daniel Perkins

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Den
16 minutes ago, Daniel Perkins said:

Yeah there is a plastic panel covering the battery, I honestly didn't get a chance to have a look because the weather has been awful and was lashing rain when I was initially moving it. Was so concerned with covering it up and protecting controller and battery that hardly looked, is it straight forward to charge the battery? When i'm moving it into the van is there an easy way to disconnect the battery from the tank? There isn't enough slack to put it on top of the tank so when we were moving the tank someone had to hold the battery as we were moving the tank.. was so awkward.

Honestly can’t be 100% sure but don’t think my battery was connected as they didn’t send the panel I had to phone them up When Ireceived the panel a couple of days later they didn’t send the screw to attach the panel lol. 

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Daniel Perkins
14 minutes ago, Den said:

Honestly can’t be 100% sure but don’t think my battery was connected as they didn’t send the panel I had to phone them up When Ireceived the panel a couple of days later they didn’t send the screw to attach the panel lol. 

Lol ffs, I'll figure it out in few weeks. Only concern is the install, was my main concern from the get go. Have all the stuff ordered, now just find someone to do it & do it correctly. Have a feeling a lot of mechanic over will probably never have been asked to do something like this before. WFP is not as popular over here yet.

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Den

Mine is installed in the floor panels not the chassis I’m sure any mechanic will be able to install without to many problems. 

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Daniel Perkins

Hey guys,

I was talking about a month ago about bolting down tank in van etc. One of my packages from WCW got lost and tool 4 weeks for them to finally tell me that. TNTs fault! Bit of a saga getting everything but have them now.

Got stainless steel plates, drilled holes in them.. went through 5 b and q drill bits! So I have bracket for tank, high tensile screws with washers and bolts. Does this seem to be all I need to secure the tank under chassis?

20190107_103236.jpeg

Sent using the Window Cleaning Forums mobile app

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spruce
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Daniel Perkins said:

Hey guys,

I was talking about a month ago about bolting down tank in van etc. One of my packages from WCW got lost and tool 4 weeks for them to finally tell me that. TNTs fault! Bit of a saga getting everything but have them now.

Got stainless steel plates, drilled holes in them.. went through 5 b and q drill bits! So I have bracket for tank, high tensile screws with washers and bolts. Does this seem to be all I need to secure the tank under chassis?

20190107_103236.jpeg

Sent using the Window Cleaning Forums mobile app
 

 

Do you mean under the floor of the van or are you going through the 'chassis'? (Smaller vans usually have couple of box channels running down each side which are a strengthening aid and work inconjuction with side sill structure to make the van rigid.)

 

How many brackets have you got? IMO they will do the job but you always need to drive a van with a tank full of water with caution. We have used similar for years although not in stainless steel. No matter what you plan to hold the tank in place with, its not a guarantee that they will hold in an accident. Crash tested tanks and frames are crash tested and certified at 30 mph. At 50 or 60mph you have no chance of that tank being held securely. So you have to drive in a manner that you expect a vehicle to pull out in front of you or go through a red traffic light etc where ever you drive.

 

I can't quite read what the figures are on the bolt head but you say its high tensile. It looks like 8.8 which is high tensile and that's what you want. Mild steel bolts are not suitable.

 

.

 

Edited by spruce

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Daniel Perkins
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, spruce said:

 

Do you mean under the floor of the van or are you going through the 'chassis'? (Smaller vans usually have couple of box channels running down each side which are a strengthening aid and work inconjuction with side sill structure to make the van rigid.)

 

How many brackets have you got? IMO they will do the job but you always need to drive a van with a tank full of water with caution. We have used similar for years although not in stainless steel. No matter what you plan to hold the tank in place with, its not a guarantee that they will hold in an accident. Crash tested tanks and frames are crash tested and certified at 30 mph. At 50 or 60mph you have no chance of that tank being held securely. So you have to drive in a manner that you expect a vehicle to pull out in front of you or go through a red traffic light etc where ever you drive.

 

I can't quite read what the figures are on the bolt head but you say its high tensile. It looks like 8.8 which is high tensile and that's what you want. Mild steel bolts are not suitable.

 

.

 

Hey mate cheers for the reply. I got the screws, bolts & plates you posted in the thread earlier. You are spot on.. zinc plated 8.8 high tensile steel bolts, M10 Grade 8 High tensile zinc plated fully threaded steel screws & the stainless flat bar/steel plates. I also got 5000kg ratchet straps just as another precaution. I have 4 brackets for the tank and 4 stainless steel plates 200x50x6mm. I wasn't sure whether to put the plates underneath the chassis or go through the chassis... I would think that underneath is a better? Although does seem the more awkward option.

But yeah I get what you are saying about risks, I don't drive fast anyways but would easily be going 60 or 70kmph every days. I'm not sure there is much more I can do to secure the tank down & am hoping the insurance companies over here don't load on because of the risk factor.

Edited by Daniel Perkins

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spruce
32 minutes ago, Daniel Perkins said:

Hey mate cheers for the reply. I got the screws, bolts & plates you posted in the thread earlier. You are spot on.. zinc plated 8.8 high tensile steel bolts, M10 Grade 8 High tensile zinc plated fully threaded steel screws & the stainless flat bar/steel plates. I also got 5000kg ratchet straps just as another precaution. I have 4 brackets for the tank and 4 stainless steel plates 200x50x6mm. I wasn't sure whether to put the plates underneath the chassis or go through the chassis... I would think that underneath is a better? Although does seem the more awkward option.

But yeah I get what you are saying about risks, I don't drive fast anyways but would easily be going 60 or 70kmph every days. I'm not sure there is much more I can do to secure the tank down & am hoping the insurance companies over here don't load on because of the risk factor.

 

IMHO you are ten times better off than a builder or a roofer with all that loose stuff they carry in the back including an unsecured gas bottle.

 

You can only try to cover as many bases as you can. Personally I fitted a used factory fit optional steel bulkhead as an extra precaution.  I have a Citroen Relay and now a Peugeot Boxer waiting in the wings. The PSA/Fiat factory options are much stronger than the after maket ones made from Cocola Cola tins.

 

In the early days of wfp we had a hard time with insurance. There was only one company that would insure us (Ageas) with a secured tank over 500 liters and we paid heavily for that.  But these days insurance is much easier to obtain at a reasonable price. (At one time I was seriously thinking of replacing my 650l tank with a 500 liter one and carrying a few 25l plastic containers to supplement the shortfall. The saving on insurance would have virtually paid for the replacement tank in the first year.)  I have insurance with Aviva now - a one time they wouldn't even look at a wfp van.

 

You just need to make sure that they have all the modifications listed on insurance, your tank, your towbar and roofracks, signwriting etc. if applicable

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Den
32 minutes ago, spruce said:

 

IMHO you are ten times better off than a builder or a roofer with all that loose stuff they carry in the back including an unsecured gas bottle.

 

You can only try to cover as many bases as you can. Personally I fitted a used factory fit optional steel bulkhead as an extra precaution.  I have a Citroen Relay and now a Peugeot Boxer waiting in the wings. The PSA/Fiat factory options are much stronger than the after maket ones made from Cocola Cola tins.

 

In the early days of wfp we had a hard time with insurance. There was only one company that would insure us (Ageas) with a secured tank over 500 liters and we paid heavily for that.  But these days insurance is much easier to obtain at a reasonable price. (At one time I was seriously thinking of replacing my 650l tank with a 500 liter one and carrying a few 25l plastic containers to supplement the shortfall. The saving on insurance would have virtually paid for the replacement tank in the first year.)  I have insurance with Aviva now - a one time they wouldn't even look at a wfp van.

 

You just need to make sure that they have all the modifications listed on insurance, your tank, your towbar and roofracks, signwriting etc. if applicable

I’m with aviva now they didn’t ask how big my tank was on my policy it states water tank(s) they did asked was it bolted or strapped down.

I carry a 325l tank and also up to 10 x 25l drums also but I only fill my tank up to approx 250l when carry that amount of drums as I’m working out of a 1000kg payload two man setup. 

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spruce
7 minutes ago, Den said:

I’m with aviva now they didn’t ask how big my tank was on my policy it states water tank(s) they did asked was it bolted or strapped down.

I carry a 325l tank and also up to 10 x 25l drums also but I only fill my tank up to approx 250l when carry that amount of drums as I’m working out of a 1000kg payload two man setup. 

 

Interestingly they asked me if the tank was professionally fitted. I said yes; I fitted it and bolted it in myself as I value my life. No reaction.  😂

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Part Timer
1 minute ago, spruce said:

 

Interestingly they asked me if the tank was professionally fitted. I said yes; I fitted it and bolted it in myself as I value my life. No reaction.  😂

Your lofty reputation precedes you. 

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P4dstar
Just now, spruce said:

 

Interestingly they asked me if the tank was professionally fitted. I said yes; I fitted it and bolted it in myself as I value my life. No reaction.  😂

Ask them to define professionally. You are a window cleaner who works with these tanks on a daily basis, seems to me you're in a better position to understand these tanks and how they work than a mechanic would. It would be like telling a trained mechanic that he couldn't professionally fit his own shelving to the back of a van or a builder that they couldn't complete an extension on their own home or something.

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Den
3 minutes ago, spruce said:

 

Interestingly they asked me if the tank was professionally fitted. I said yes; I fitted it and bolted it in myself as I value my life. No reaction.  😂

I find it refreshing when people are straight talking like you Spruce without being arrogant,if I was a aviva representive I would have chuckled at that answer 😄

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spruce
Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Den said:

I find it refreshing when people are straight talking like you Spruce without being arrogant,if I was a aviva representive I would have chuckled at that answer 😄

 

All those calls are recorded so those reps have to be very careful what they acknowledge or 'agree' to. I'm fully aware of that. They also make extensive notes.

I'm still half way swapping my kit over from my current van to the new one. The new one is insured by them as business even although its not being used for that ATM. They were told it would have a tank, towbar fitted and that I had fitted roofbars a while back.

 

I've passed my Xsara Estate down to my son as his car broke down in December and isn't worth spending money on with 190k on the clock. I phoned Aviva to cancel my insurance on that car. They also checked to see if the other vehicles were still as previously advised. Without me saying anything, the lady I spoke to asked if I had fitted a tank and towbar to the 'new' van yet? I said no, I'm old and its taking longer than it would in my younger days. I'm hoping to complete it before my funeral though. I'd love to know what she wrote on her notes. 😂

Edited by spruce

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spruce
Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, P4dstar said:

Ask them to define professionally. You are a window cleaner who works with these tanks on a daily basis, seems to me you're in a better position to understand these tanks and how they work than a mechanic would. It would be like telling a trained mechanic that he couldn't professionally fit his own shelving to the back of a van or a builder that they couldn't complete an extension on their own home or something.

 

That's the interesting thing. When the question was asked I immediately realised that I could be setting myself up here. Just because we drive a van with a tank fitted it doesn't mean we know anything about how to fit it. But that applies to a workshop as well.

 

In our early wfp days a fellow windie had 2 Vauxhall Combo vans - one with a 400 liter upright tank and the other with a 400 liter lay flat tank. The Combo with the lay flat tank came later and was fitted out by a dealer who also sold Brodex stuff. The tank fitted was a Wydale unit and the dealer's workshop fitted it with securing bars bent to shape. They made a very good job of making the frame but they used nutserts in the floor to secure the frame to.  A nutsert is a threaded pop rivet. They didn't fit  spreader plates, nothing. Was that professionally fitted? No, but because this windie had a covering invoice the insurance company would have taken it as being professionally fitted.  I only saw what they did with the 2 back nutserts pulled out of the body whilst in normal everyday use.

 

For me I know Purefreedom supply a crash tested Wydale tank and frame and so I need to copy what they do. They use spreader plates under the floor of the van they are fitting a tank to. Doing that got them their crash tested certification. That's good enough for me.

 

Edited by spruce

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Cleanco

Back to the original topic. I’d have to say that it all depends on how you work. If you do a fair bit of travelling then one man per van is far more productive but if you don’t travel much and each person can do their own jobs whilst working out of the same van then two in a van will be more productive and profitable. There’s always work out there though but it will just take a little longer to build if you need 2x the work. One plus though is that some of your expenses will halved. 

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