Two man set up...or not?

[Norfolk Newbie]

Worked with my father and my uncle for for the last 20 odd years and never any hassle, very different people but try to look after each other. We are all sole traders but help each out. An extra body is an extra body, the goal is the same, be smart and make money. Have been arguments along the way but nothing major. They are both in the 70's and still cracking on with work. Been my safety blanket for a long time now and vice versa but they won't be doing it for much longer. I will get a shed load of work when they pack it in, so that is something that I will have to plan for, extra bodies will be needed.
 
I do get why people say never work with friends though, can ruin a relationship.

The best reply I’ve had! Thank you so much for your time to reply. Very positive! Keep up the great work mate!


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[Clisty1989]

I've found over the the years  personally the closer you are the harder it is to work together. Something happens in work that boils over to social life and visa versa. 

However one bonus is that if your having a tough time, either family emergency or under a lot of stress if you know eachother well enough then it can be an advantage. I work with my father in law, I see him out of work and although we talk, we don't go to the pub and properly socialise, but when my kids have appointments or are ill, or my mother in law's bad (my son has special needs and she's in a wheelchair) we both know the score and we can take time off without asking, and the other will keep going. Or we both end up off as dealing with the same thing

 

[Incheck]

I work with my bro and don’t think i could trust anybody else, we are of the same mindset. We have had a few off moments with one another in the past but who doesn’t, it can just as easily happen with an employee. The good times far outweigh the off moments.

Not that we have the work there to employ someone full time but i’ve never liked the idea anyway. I just don’t think i could tolerate the casual sickness.
I’m very very lucky to have a second man, some of the positions i’ve seen solo workers in on ladders makes my stomach churn. The second man gets you out of so many awkward situations as well. Footing ladders, lifting washers, assistance with maintenance, assistance with driving , parking, loading/unloading/a second mind when you lose your memory, got stuck in a mud hole once and needed the push, little things every day that make life so much easier. I’ve worked on my own before and the number of times i found myself saying “god if i only had an extra pair of hands”



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[Daniel Perkins]

As regards the 2 man setup, what would the minimum size tank people would recommend for a 2 man setup & if I got a one man setup, which is the way I think i will go how hard is it to switch to a two man setup? I have been looking at the 325 di compact from WCW or the likes as the van i will get will be Caddy or Transit LWB. SureClean in northern ireland do the GrippaMax systems too which i'm interested in. Up to now i have been using the PF trolley and DI vessel out the back to fill the containers... it's a tough task lagging those containers around i'm not going to lie.

I think for me in the next few years when father and uncle retire, having another body with their own mode of transport would be much more beneficial than having a 2 man setup with the one van. I finally got car repaired after the insurance company dragging their heels for months so I am now on the look out for a van & van system. Unfortunately over in Dublin, i have only options of going up north to SureClean or across to Wales to WCW, both would be the closest places to go but still ridiculous that I can't get a setup in this city, joke!

 

[Incheck]

We are a bit unconventional, we run off backpacks and 25 L barrels. Has its pros and cons but i like the idea of being able to completely empty the van so we can use it for other purposes. We are also double di in the garage. So no pumps, batteries, r.o.s etc to break down. Always have 2 backpacks so if one packs in halfway through the day we are still running at some sort of pace as one person can always go trad


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[Part Timer]

As regards the 2 man setup, what would the minimum size tank people would recommend for a 2 man setup 

Minimum is 650l tank for 2 man setup, my son and I can empty one in 5 hours on big commercial jobs 

 

[Daniel Perkins]

Ok cheers, so 2 man system out which is fine as most of my work is still trad anyways, I would just like having the tank there for the jobs that trad won't cut it for.

 

[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

If you're still doing lots of trad ladder then it should be 2 men just from a safety point of view.  

You also have a duty of care to employees to keep them safe so going WFP is the way forward as far as keeping lads (or lasses) safe goes. 

 For a long time I swore by 1 man to a van. 4 months ago we switched to a 2 man set up and I have realised I should have done it years ago.  

Regarding tanks, as @Part Timer said 650L min but bigger the better for 2 man op. 

Remember you can put 300L in a 650L tank but you cant put 650L in a 300L tank.   

 

[Dave Shaw]

If you're still doing lots of trad ladder then it should be 2 men just from a safety point of view.  
 
You also have a duty of care to employees to keep them safe so going WFP is the way forward as far as keeping lads (or lasses) safe goes. 
 
 For a long time I swore by 1 man to a van. 4 months ago we switched to a 2 man set up and I have realised I should have done it years ago.  
 
Regarding tanks, as [mention=2712]Part Timer[/mention] said 650L min but bigger the better for 2 man op. 
 
Remember you can put 300L in a 650L tank but you cant put 650L in a 300L tank.   

I don’t mean to rub it in but I told you so. As usual Dave doesn’t know what he’s talking about. [emoji848]


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[Den]

My son and myself work together we use approx 500l a day that’s a full day very occasionally we go over but my work is very local and quite often go home for lunch so can top if need be.

he does any ladder jobs like the odd window above a flat roof garage, we work great as a team. 

univavle is a must and also using 100degree fanjets helps save water imo. 

I use a 325 facelift and my son uses 25l barrels that are fed by pump and into hosereel, so apart my having to transfer the inlets from the barrels x4 a day beats which takes seconds it almost like having a second tank install. 

 

[Daniel Perkins]

My son and myself work together we use approx 500l a day that’s a full day very occasionally we go over but my work is very local and quite often go home for lunch so can top if need be.

he does any ladder jobs like the odd window above a flat roof garage, we work great as a team. 

univavle is a must and also using 100degree fanjets helps save water imo. 

I use a 325 facelift and my son uses 25l barrels that are fed by pump and into hosereel, so apart my having to transfer the inlets from the barrels x4 a day beats which takes seconds it almost like having a second tank install. 

Hey mate,

Just got my facelift 325 delivered yesterday, just a few questions if you don't mind. How many brackets did you get to bolt down tank & did you get bolts/spreader plates with that or you have to buy it yourself? I only got one bracket and that's it, been on to WCW about it and waiting for reply. I've been using a PF trolley for awhile now and when I need to charge I plug power cord into battery, does charging a leisure battery work a different way? I haven't got a power cord or the likes to charge the battery. 

 

[Den]

with my system I got four brackets two for each side.

you only get tecscrews which are attached to the four bracket and attached to the pallet these aren't safe IMO, you need to buy some nuts bolts and spreader plates.

you would have received a 75ah or 85ah battery with your facedlift but unfortunately you have to buy a charger yourself I have a smart charger I have the one below used this everyday for two years works perfect it also as quick release SAE connector so son messing about with crocodile clips. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6V-12v-4A-Electronic-Smart-Car-Battery-Fast-Trickle-Charger-WET-AGM-ACID-Maypole/121219067543?epid=1942859756&hash=item1c39382e97:g:Er0AAOSw~y9ZAer0

 

[spruce]

If you want it bad enough you’ll find it no matter what.

Working with a mate you have to find twice the work but in theory have halve the bills


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In a business like this I must admit going into partnership with a mate would be low on my list of ideals asking for issues at every opportunity


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Sadly, I would have to agree. We have seen a few examples of local windies who have fallen out with each other.
It's usually when one of them gets the hump when he believes he is doing the most work but they are splitting the takings equally. Years back we had "Little and Large"working traditionally. Little was up and down the ladder doing tops and Large did the bottoms because he was to big and fat to climb ladders. Little feel out with Large as he felt he was doing the most work.
It got quite ugly.



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[P4dstar]

with my system I got four brackets two for each side.

you only get tecscrews which are attached to the four bracket and attached to the pallet these aren't safe IMO, you need to buy some nuts bolts and spreader plates.

you would have received a 75ah or 85ah battery with your facedlift but unfortunately you have to buy a charger yourself I have a smart charger I have the one below used this everyday for two years works perfect it also as quick release SAE connector so son messing about with crocodile clips. 

Wow, over a grand on a system and they can't even supply a charger. Thats pretty shocking. Stick £50 on the price and give me a plug in charger any day of the week!

Sadly, I would have to agree. We have seen a few examples of local windies who have fallen out with each other.
It's usually when one of them gets the hump when he believes he is doing the most work but they are splitting the takings equally. Years back we had "Little and Large"working traditionally. Little was up and down the ladder doing tops and Large did the bottoms because he was to big and fat to climb ladders. Little feel out with Large as he felt he was doing the most work.
It got quite ugly.
 

Before this I had a failed business idea of offering Stag and Hen parties. Started it with a friend. Knocked it on the head before there was any ill feeling but I basically built 85-90% of the website. It was frustrating and I wasn't willing to lose a friend over it. When I initially threw the idea out about becoming a window cleaner it was with the intention of both of us doing it. He was too indecisive so I cut strings and told him I was going for it alone. No hard feelings etc, he has helped me a lot since I started but I am glad I went alone.

If you're both going to become window cleaners there is no reason you can't work together as 2 separate businesses, 2 separate business names each concentrating on a territory. It would always be good to have someone to share the cost of an RO with. Once window cleaning is your only income stream then you need to have back ups of pretty much everything. It would be good to split the cost of things like that. If you get a big job on its nice to have someone to share the load. Much easier to break ties that way than a partnership.

 

[Den]

Thought that was standard with all the big installers they supply the battery but not the charger I could easily be corrected though ?

 

[P4dstar]

Thought that was standard with all the big installers they supply the battery but not the charger I could easily be corrected though ?

Just seems daft mate. If they gave me a phone without a charger I wouldn't be happy. I just checked back on the website as I remembered it saying plug and go but it actually says just charge and go, makes no mention of charger sold separately. You're probably right but it just seems so wrong. It wouldn't be a huge amount of effort for them to convert it to a kettle lead charging port like a backpack has. That is what I assumed they did to be honest, I also assumed the fitted ones would come with a split charge relay, do they?

 

[Den]

Just seems daft mate. If they gave me a phone without a charger I wouldn't be happy. I just checked back on the website as I remembered it saying plug and go but it actually says just charge and go, makes no mention of charger sold separately. You're probably right but it just seems so wrong. It wouldn't be a huge amount of effort for them to convert it to a kettle lead charging port like a backpack has. That is what I assumed they did to be honest, I also assumed the fitted ones would come with a split charge relay, do they?

Split charge relays and static trickle as far as I know are optional extras and they charge a fair whack for them. 

Had my facelift system 2.5 to  3 years and always used the above charger I posted think it was approx £20 then works great for the money can leave on all night if required as it's a smart charger quick release connectors.

I have a split charge relay but don't do enough mileage to be effective will not bother with another when I get my new van only takes a few seconds to reel extension lead out and charge. 

 

[Daniel Perkins]

with my system I got four brackets two for each side.  you only get tecscrews which are attached to the four bracket and attached to the pallet these aren't safe IMO, you need to buy some nuts bolts and spreader plates.

you would have received a 75ah or 85ah battery with your facedlift but unfortunately you have to buy a charger yourself I have a smart charger I have the one below used this everyday for two years works perfect it also as quick release SAE connector so son messing about with crocodile clips. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6V-12v-4A-Electronic-Smart-Car-Battery-Fast-Trickle-Charger-WET-AGM-ACID-Maypole/121219067543?epid=1942859756&hash=item1c39382e97:g:Er0AAOSw~y9ZAer0

Lovely cheers mate. Yeah missing 3 brackets and screws. I 'll get that charger also if you recommend it.. bit stingy them not throwing a charger in thought they would. I did envisage the charger being the same as pure freedom trolley for some reason. 
Could you recommend anywhere to get the spreader plates and bolts or would likes of b and q suffice?

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[spruce]

Lovely cheers mate. Yeah missing 3 brackets and screws. I 'll get that charger also if you recommend it.. bit stingy them not throwing a charger in thought they would. I did envisage the charger being the same as pure freedom trolley for some reason. 

Could you recommend anywhere to get the spreader plates and bolts or would likes of b and q suffice?

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50mm x 6mm mild steel flat bar is ok cut to the length you need.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-0mm-Mild-Steel-FLAT-BAR-20-25-30-40-50-60-75-100mm-available-in-8-lengths/291539523900?hash=item43e11c193c:m:mf1QUKRTLhXbEfD0gzz9U-A:rk:3f:0

I would prefer stainless steel as it won't rust. Obviously you will need to drill the holes.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FLAT-BAR-STAINLESS-STEEL-Flat-Bar-Plate-Strip-Many-sizes-and-lengths/172948804627?hash=item28448d5413:m:mpmJKPravT6oxj91ZrianaQ:rk:1f:0&var=471709860684

You need high tensile 8.8 grade zinc plated M10 bolts with M10 high tensile nuts (M10 depending on the internal brackets. M10 = a 10mm hole approx.)

I have just recieved a packet of these, but the length you order could be different as mine have to go through the chassis box section.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M10-Grade-8-8-High-Tensile-Zinc-Plated-Fully-Threaded-Set-Screws-Steel-Bolts/182873844105?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=690175350104&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

This windie used angle iron for his van's spreader plates. I think it was 50 x 5 angle iron.

 

[Daniel Perkins]

50mm x 6mm mild steel flat bar is ok cut to the length you need.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-0mm-Mild-Steel-FLAT-BAR-20-25-30-40-50-60-75-100mm-available-in-8-lengths/291539523900?hash=item43e11c193c:m:mf1QUKRTLhXbEfD0gzz9U-A:rk:3f:0
 
I would prefer stainless steel as it won't rust. Obviously you will need to drill the holes.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FLAT-BAR-STAINLESS-STEEL-Flat-Bar-Plate-Strip-Many-sizes-and-lengths/172948804627?hash=item28448d5413:m:mpmJKPravT6oxj91ZrianaQ:rk:1f:0&var=471709860684
 
You need high tensile 8.8 grade zinc plated M10 bolts with M10 high tensile nuts (M10 depending on the internal brackets. M10 = a 10mm hole approx.)
I have just recieved a packet of these, but the length you order could be different as mine have to go through the chassis box section.
 
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M10-Grade-8-8-High-Tensile-Zinc-Plated-Fully-Threaded-Set-Screws-Steel-Bolts/182873844105?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=690175350104&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
 
This windie used angle iron for his van's spreader plates. I think it was 50 x 5 angle iron.
View attachment 15279

Amazing info, appreciate it mate.

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[Part Timer]

Amazing info, appreciate it mate.

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When @sprucegets his teeth in then be prepared to get bombarded ?