Took my toy out for a little drive

[Damo]

Buying a 2 man operation? have u ever bought work before? taking over another round can be more headache then actually building the round up yourself.

Yeah that can be done easy or u can even put your prices up so u dont feel the VAT hit? Lol

55mph is still decent, cant u get it modded and put it upto 120mph ? hahahah

Walk up customers are always a bonus , the more vans u have on the road the more chance of a walk up, so it can only get better and better as u grow ?

How are u managing in this pandemic? U do much commercial ?

 

All my commercial had been suspended all bad about 3 jobs. I’m about 30% down a week on turnover. 

 

[Pjj]

I assume the franchise's are separate companies and he either takes a percentage or a fixed fee. 

Ok but surely he could earn considerably more money if they were employees working  for him ?? 

 

[harunh]

I assume the franchise's are separate companies and he either takes a percentage or a fixed fee. 

They wont be companies they will be sole traders and most franchises take 20% , some franchises even do 15% lol

 

[Damo]

Basically each franchisee is a separate business and it’s their turnover not mine. I only take a % from their turnover which is 20%. 
 

Why would I do it? Lots of reasons why but it’s just easier and quicker to build a franchise. You do earn less but I’m happy with my figures. 
 

 

[harunh]

Ok but surely he could earn considerably more money if they were employees working  for him ?? 

Franchises make good money, might be a small sum but over the year it all adds up.

Employing is not for him hence the reason he is a franchise, the best thing about a franchise is that u do not need to worry about employing, he might make more money then some companies and some companies might make more money then him, but end of the day its all about what works for him and what suits his lifestyle.

 

[Pjj]

Basically each franchisee is a separate business and it’s their turnover not mine. I only take a % from their turnover which is 20%. 
 

Why would do it? Lots of reasons why but it’s just easier and quicker to build a franchise. You do earn less but I’m happy with my figures. 
 

Ok thanks for that I don’t really understand how it all works , I think any business can be a headache wether you employ or what ever , just doesn’t seam a lot of money for the amount of work and effort you must have to put in that was how I was viewing it , so do they own there work , or do you own it and they sort of pay a rental fee ?.

 

[harunh]

All my commercial had been suspended all bad about 3 jobs. I’m about 30% down a week on turnover. 

Im lucky im 99% residential, I know a few window cleaners who do commercial only have been hit hard, hope it gets back to normal soon. Was supposed to have van number 6 going on the road in June but thats all on hold now ?

 

[Damo]

Ok but surely he could earn considerably more money if they were employees working  for him ?? 

I would earn more but this business model suits me down to the ground. I make very good profit from each van and it’s the best decision I’ve ever made. 
 

Ive tried employing twice and it just wasnt for me at all.

 

[Damo]

Ok thanks for that I don’t really understand how it all works , I think any business can be a headache wether you employ or what ever , just doesn’t seam a lot of money for the amount of work and effort you must have to put in that was how I was viewing it , so do they own there work , or do you own it and they sort of pay a rental fee ?.

Nobody technically owns anything as it’s goodwill ?

Its been hard work for the first two years and then these last two have been a lot easier. 
 

I really don’t want to sell franchising to anyone as I don’t want anyone around my area to do it. 
 

This July seems my 4th year doing it and in 4 years most of my competitors have all more or less stayed the same. I’ve gone from 2 vans to 7, bought my first house, a brand new van, doing up my house etc etc etc. Turnover means very little it’s all about profit. 
 

Imagine turning over 100K but having a profit of 90k. You don’t have to have a unit, sort work sheets, fix vans, have countless complaints a week, Insure vans, pensions. Etc etc etc. The list is endless. 

Im lucky im 99% residential, I know a few window cleaners who do commercial only have been hit hard, hope it gets back to normal soon. Was supposed to have van number 6 going on the road in June but thats all on hold now ?

We’ve expanded by about 4% in April. The amount of work coming in is just simply mental. 

 

[Pjj]

I would earn more but this business model suits me down to the ground. I make very good profit from each van and it’s the best decision I’ve ever made. 
 

Ive tried employing twice and it just wasnt for me at all.

So is it more or less work than employing ?. I have 3 vans and employ I want to be doing less work myself the way we work is two guys per van as we do  a lot of commercial and risk assessment says we need two on site . Ime guessing you do  office work rather than out actually cleaning ?..Do you supply van and kit and they then pay for that out right ,or do  they pay for the van themselves .? Sounds interesting  .sorry for all the questions, I have read about this in the past  and the legal contracts looked very complex and expensive si did nothing more about it . 

 

[Damo]

So is it more or less work than employing ?. I have 3 vans and employ I want to be doing less work myself the way we work is two guys per van as we do  a lot of commercial and risk assessment says we need two on site . Ime guessing you do  office work rather than out actually cleaning ?..Do you supply van and kit and they then pay for that out right ,or do  they pay for the van themselves .? Sounds interesting  .sorry for all the questions, I have read about this in the past  and the legal contracts looked very complex and expensive si did nothing more about it . 

Defiantly less work! 
 

I still work as I have my round which is sort of 3 days a week now. I expanded the business but didn’t want to lose my work incase it failed. 
 

Office work? I raise invoices on a Friday night on what they owe me and deal with quotes. 
 

They pay into my business usually around 8-10k now and supply a van. In return they get unlimited earning potential and work under my brand. 
 

I will send you a PM now. 

 

[harunh]

@Damo A lot of people run the Ian Lancaster system and it works a treat, i remember speaking to Ian on the phone for an hour he knew his stuff and a lot of people have bought his package.

Im down on customers by 1.5% since Lockdown started, We had a good number of calls cancelling the service in the first week of lockdown... but we were still picking up a few new customers but the past week has seen us pick up a lot of customers which is a bonus.

 

[Damo]

@Damo A lot of people run the Ian Lancaster system and it works a treat, i remember speaking to Ian on the phone for an hour he knew his stuff and a lot of people have bought his package.

Im down on customers by 1.5% since Lockdown started, We had a good number of calls cancelling the service in the first week of lockdown... but we were still picking up a few new customers but the past week has seen us pick up a lot of customers which is a bonus.

Most that I have spoken to seem to be in the same boat but it’s been the absolute opposite for us. 

Just lucky I guess at the moment.  
 

 

[Davy G]

So is it more or less work than employing ?. I have 3 vans and employ I want to be doing less work myself the way we work is two guys per van as we do  a lot of commercial and risk assessment says we need two on site . Ime guessing you do  office work rather than out actually cleaning ?..Do you supply van and kit and they then pay for that out right ,or do  they pay for the van themselves .? Sounds interesting  .sorry for all the questions, I have read about this in the past  and the legal contracts looked very complex and expensive si did nothing more about it . 

I hope nobody will mind me asking a question? Although, knowing me it will turn out to be several questions. ?

For a long time I've been trying to plan for easing towards a stepped eventual retirement. I'm 64 now and I don't really know how fit or otherwise I am for getting back to full-time work after a year of operations and chemo. All signs so far point to it having been successful but of course it's in the hands of providence. I did a couple of weeks before the lockdown and I'm hoping to start back again within the next couple of weeks to a month. I was able to work at very near normal pace but I found I was getting a lot more tired than I expected.

I have no intention of retiring until it's forced upon me but I believe in doing research well in advance of anything I do or buy.

I hope to be able to continue for a long time but I'm trying to prepare for the inevitable: ageing and / or further illness. I have no private pension. I tried years ago but got shafted by a an ex partner and a crooked financial advisor and I was never again in a financial position to reinvest.

I've been considering eventually employing, for a teammate for my son and /or putting a second van on the road with a two man team as a franchise.

My main concern is, if I get someone in, what's to stop them starting up on their own after we've invested in the equipment, helped build a round and trained them?

I knew there'd probably be more than one question. ?. Here's number two. How difficult is it to do either of the above, with the logistics side of tax and stuff?

Thanks in advance guys. Keep safe, keep well. ?

 

[Davy G]

I think a lot of what I was asking has probably been answered while I was writing my post above. Thanks guys. I'll have a proper read tomorrow. ?

 

[High-tower]

They pay into my business usually around 8-10k now and supply a van. In return they get unlimited earning potential and work under my brand. 

How do you share the work between franchisees, do they get assigned a territory?

 

[Damo]

How do you share the work between franchisees, do they get assigned a territory?

Pretty much yeah! Towns and villages really not so much a radius.  

 

[Omega]

Hi all,
Interesting discussion regarding Franchises and employing.

@Damo nice ride by the way. Looks like great fun.

@Pjj and @Davy G; We have a Joint Venture and employ as well so thought I would share some insight that may be helpful.
It is my personal experience so take into account it's not right or wrong but just experience.

I have found that in any event, employing or setting up a franchise or joint venture is a serious task with both great risks and rewards. I don't think any is harder than the other but just different balances of risk, management, reward and freedom.

For example; I am 30 now. I had been managing within optical retail since 19. It took me 3 hires before I got a window cleaner I was happy with and even this month I am seeing mistakes I have made and correcting myself, adjusting procedures and learning still.

I also have a JV partner. It runs like a franchise. Main difference is my principle company owns half the Joint Venture company. Shareholder setup in respect to dividends is different but owning half allows for control and responsibility where required from a legal point of view.

I considered a franchise setup where partner would be sole trader or their own limited company.
In any instance whether you employ directly, franchise or JV; you are ultimately trusting brand representation to someone else.

My view is that as you decrease responsibility and workload the risk increases. For example.
An employee. If they start going rogue in the sense that there is mass complaints, poor attitude and such. You can fire them almost immediately providing you can demonstrate it's gross misconduct and that you've set the standards of what is acceptable. More responsibility but less risk.

A franchisee. If they start doing cash work on the side and perhaps appear as though they are no longer respecting the system; it may very well be harder for you to withdraw a license or otherwise depending on the individual setup and agreement of the franchise. There is no fixed way to do it. Even if you end any agreement, it may be the case that you have conflict in the sense that clients may still associate this person with your brand. Much will depend on the agreement/contract setup I guess. Lesser responsibility but increased risk.

Joint Venture. I have a JV via an agreement and if it was to turn bad I would have to exercise legal proceedings to end persons role and buy back their shares. This seems more lengthy but because I am half owner of the JV company we technically own all items legally. There is a clause to move in and control of equipment such a vans whenever we can demonstrate it is necessary which acts as an immediate fail safe.

What I realised in any scenario is that you must select the right person based on:
1) what input you want to have in the operations of business and how independent you want the employee, JV or franchisee to be
2) your management and personal style. Someone may be the perfect employee for you but terrible for me based on our standards and attitudes.
3) I also found that through the 10 or so years of employing and managing people that there is no perfect employee for a position or company. There is only a perfect employee for a company and position at a current time or period. As things move on and develop what you need changes.

A vital consideration I had was this. I did not want to have any JV, Franchise or otherwise where the work the person could do would be as much as they want. It was vital for me that the agreement means that the partner (in whatever capacity) has an obligation to grow the business as much as is required to meet the demand for the geographical catchment area.
Why? I want to do what is ultimately best for the market and I saw that a huge downfall in trades industries was good tradesmen reach capacity and in many cases don't employ. This capped capacity typically leads to cherry picking of work. This makes is difficult for many to use the services of window cleaners, plumbers and otherwise.
I do not fault them personally. If I found employing to be a hassle and I only had a limit of 40 hrs I was willing to work in a week I would cherry pick and constantly replace inferior work with the best and easiest. I think it's only natural. Why would you work 40 hrs for x amount when you can x +20% ad it's more enjoyable. It's not what everyone does granted but it is common activity within trades and customers do comment on how hard it is to find x, y z trade to do something at their home.

As a result I decided and set that responsibility would be divided by area and there is no cherry picking. As long a client fits with how we do business (online payments and access available for example), we will serve them and grow as big as necessary to service that demand.

Some things that helped me.

So, I am relatively new to window cleaning. Less than 5 years.
For anyone looking to execute a franchise model or in general to employing, I found one book in particular to be a breakthrough to my knowledge and application of the way I ran businesses.
The E Myth by Michael Gerber. Can't recommend it enough.

And bear in mind that I had been managing teams of up to 40-50 people with revenues into the low millions before getting into window cleaning. I was not new to business or employing/managing people in any sense but that book is one of the most applicable I have read in relation to employing and the joint venture system. It's a must read for anyone looking to build any business in my opinion. Even if you are top notch, it is likely you will find someway to make some improvements afterwards.

I respect that to some this may seem like I'm teaching you to suck eggs. I just wanted to share my thoughts with the view that it may be helpful as I noticed the topic was raising some questions and I have some experience which I thought may serve as some value sharing.

If anyone ever wants to have a chat or otherwise I'm always happy to.

 

[Pjj]

Hi all,
Interesting discussion regarding Franchises and employing.

@Damo nice ride by the way. Looks like great fun.

@Pjj and @Davy G; We have a Joint Venture and employ as well so thought I would share some insight that may be helpful.
It is my personal experience so take into account it's not right or wrong but just experience.

I have found that in any event, employing or setting up a franchise or joint venture is a serious task with both great risks and rewards. I don't think any is harder than the other but just different balances of risk, management, reward and freedom.

For example; I am 30 now. I had been managing within optical retail since 19. It took me 3 hires before I got a window cleaner I was happy with and even this month I am seeing mistakes I have made and correcting myself, adjusting procedures and learning still.

I also have a JV partner. It runs like a franchise. Main difference is my principle company owns half the Joint Venture company. Shareholder setup in respect to dividends is different but owning half allows for control and responsibility where required from a legal point of view.

I considered a franchise setup where partner would be sole trader or their own limited company.
In any instance whether you employ directly, franchise or JV; you are ultimately trusting brand representation to someone else.

My view is that as you decrease responsibility and workload the risk increases. For example.
An employee. If they start going rogue in the sense that there is mass complaints, poor attitude and such. You can fire them almost immediately providing you can demonstrate it's gross misconduct and that you've set the standards of what is acceptable. More responsibility but less risk.

A franchisee. If they start doing cash work on the side and perhaps appear as though they are no longer respecting the system; it may very well be harder for you to withdraw a license or otherwise depending on the individual setup and agreement of the franchise. There is no fixed way to do it. Even if you end any agreement, it may be the case that you have conflict in the sense that clients may still associate this person with your brand. Much will depend on the agreement/contract setup I guess. Lesser responsibility but increased risk.

Joint Venture. I have a JV via an agreement and if it was to turn bad I would have to exercise legal proceedings to end persons role and buy back their shares. This seems more lengthy but because I am half owner of the JV company we technically own all items legally. There is a clause to move in and control of equipment such a vans whenever we can demonstrate it is necessary which acts as an immediate fail safe.

What I realised in any scenario is that you must select the right person based on:
1) what input you want to have in the operations of business and how independent you want the employee, JV or franchisee to be
2) your management and personal style. Someone may be the perfect employee for you but terrible for me based on our standards and attitudes.
3) I also found that through the 10 or so years of employing and managing people that there is no perfect employee for a position or company. There is only a perfect employee for a company and position at a current time or period. As things move on and develop what you need changes.

A vital consideration I had was this. I did not want to have any JV, Franchise or otherwise where the work the person could do would be as much as they want. It was vital for me that the agreement means that the partner (in whatever capacity) has an obligation to grow the business as much as is required to meet the demand for the geographical catchment area.
Why? I want to do what is ultimately best for the market and I saw that a huge downfall in trades industries was good tradesmen reach capacity and in many cases don't employ. This capped capacity typically leads to cherry picking of work. This makes is difficult for many to use the services of window cleaners, plumbers and otherwise.
I do not fault them personally. If I found employing to be a hassle and I only had a limit of 40 hrs I was willing to work in a week I would cherry pick and constantly replace inferior work with the best and easiest. I think it's only natural. Why would you work 40 hrs for x amount when you can x +20% ad it's more enjoyable. It's not what everyone does granted but it is common activity within trades and customers do comment on how hard it is to find x, y z trade to do something at their home.

As a result I decided and set that responsibility would be divided by area and there is no cherry picking. As long a client fits with how we do business (online payments and access available for example), we will serve them and grow as big as necessary to service that demand.

Some things that helped me.

So, I am relatively new to window cleaning. Less than 5 years.
For anyone looking to execute a franchise model or in general to employing, I found one book in particular to be a breakthrough to my knowledge and application of the way I ran businesses.
The E Myth by Michael Gerber. Can't recommend it enough.

And bear in mind that I had been managing teams of up to 40-50 people with revenues into the low millions before getting into window cleaning. I was not new to business or employing/managing people in any sense but that book is one of the most applicable I have read in relation to employing and the joint venture system. It's a must read for anyone looking to build any business in my opinion. Even if you are top notch, it is likely you will find someway to make some improvements afterwards.

I respect that to some this may seem like I'm teaching you to suck eggs. I just wanted to share my thoughts with the view that it may be helpful as I noticed the topic was raising some questions and I have some experience which I thought may serve as some value sharing.

If anyone ever wants to have a chat or otherwise I'm always happy to.

Thanks for your in depth explanation of a number of options , its Intresting and food for thought . 

 

[scottish cleaning service]

Thanks for your in depth explanation of a number of options , its Intresting and food for thought . 

More employees means more problems. I would only employ if I had a good contract bar that I will stick to domestic customers. Only folk I have had problems with have left on their on accord and I don't take them back again. I find it the easiest job i have done bar the flats with folk underneath which I have to put a board up each month.

 

[Cleanco]

If you were talking Audi RS6 I would agree , but not the Ford ????

I used to have an rs4 (v8 N/A saloon version)and having owned both id have to go with the ford. Yes......  the ford. The Audi was a really good car but the ford is more fun.  I’ll get a few pics upped after.