Working for peanuts

[steve garwood]

There a certain firm in my area, couple of amazingly tricked out vans with the whole 9yrds and much more, theyve been abojt for 18months and they clearly use tap water through their wfps, do a terrible job, ibe picked up a ton of their work because of their substandard work.

They bought a cpl of retiring windys rounds with zero experience and are slowly but surely dying on their arses.

I suppose it’s different down where I live (not sure where you are).

If you used Thames water straight from the tap, the customer would never haven you back.

It’s rock hard ?

 

[Iron Giant]

I’ve been in this game many years and know many other windies including loads of new startups.

I’ve never heard of anyone mention about new starters using tap water ?

To be honest Steve it wouldn't surprise, me every once in a while I will have a look on Fb pages and some lads on there are clueless don't have a tds meter or have bought a DI or a cheap R/O and then find out it's useless because there tap tds is 350+ some lads are trying to set up wfp on their bare bones and don't even know the basics before spending money on equipment.

 

[Iron Giant]

To a point I agree with @Haz and what @Pjj says also, but it depends what you want your business to be on a daily basis I want well priced compact work, not a full day of £15 jobs spread across 10-20 streets across town or multiple towns, I don't want to drive around and sit in traffic to earn the same or a bit more money and be racing around all day everyday.

There is some younger lads not to far from me with 2 new vans and all the gear plus gutter vac and pressure washer and fair play to them they appear to be doing well and must be hitting near enough every town and village with mass leaflet drops and fb advertising in a distance of 35 miles plus doing jobs and they have a good rep that I know of.Everyone wants different things and if you have the drive and ambition you will succeed whatever your business model is or how you want to work day to day,

I am generally up about 5am because of back and muscle trouble but will be lucky if I manage to get to work for a 8.30am start most days, I do 20-30 jobs a day of compact work and I am back home for 4.30pm, I like a straightforward uncomplicated day, crikey I sound older than @spruce

 

[Part Timer]

I have friends who work around the north who charge the same as me in London/Hertfordshire and are too busy to keep up without putting another van on the road

It's complete rubbish about areas being different on price except some mentally expensive parts of surrey etc

All I can do is tell what happens in my area with my own experience. I quote a minimum £10 per job and miss more than half of what I quote for. For example I was asked to quote for a 4 bed detached on an estate that I do a couple of houses on. There are 2 types of 4 bed houses and she wanted a 4 and 8 weekly quote. So I told her it would be £12-£15 on the monthly and £15-£20 on the 2 monthly cleans depending on which type of house it was. Her reply was thanks for getting back to me but that is more than she was already paying. 

So this woman was probably paying £10 but still looking for someone cheaper 

.

 

[scottish cleaning service]

All i can see by reading all the posts, there's a Transition Stage going on. Many customers in old estates and especially council estates are living in the past. I'm still charging a fiver but have raised my minimum to £8 because i am getting busier and now understand my worth especially after all my bad pole work. I only lost one customer and she never told me why and i never asked. Might even get her back when i give all my customers a free clean next week and will be offering her also. I think new estates is a good place to begin higher prices. If they can afford £300k home then they should be able to afford £15 a month. The moment they argue or question it then just walk away because they are in too deep with the mortgage.

 

[spruce]

All I can do is tell what happens in area with my own experience. I quote a minimum £10 per job and miss more than half of what I quote for. For example I was asked to quote for a 4 bed detached on an estate that I do a couple of houses on. There are 2 types of 4 bed houses and she wanted a 4 and 8 weekly quote. So I told her it would be £12-£15 on the monthly and £15-£20 on the 2 monthly cleans depending on which type of house it was. Her reply was thanks for getting back to me but that is more than she did already paying. 

So this woman was probably paying £10 but still looking for someone cheaper 

.

Same with us. £10 seems to be the breaking point for a 3 bed semi without a conservatory. If we get someone who accepts the price then we take it for granted that we might get cancelled a few cleans further down the line.

In the early days we took on a small round of 1930's built 3 bed semis, the ones with a lower bay lounge window and a bedroom bay window above. Trad we were doing them for £4.50. When we went wfp I upped the price to £6.50 about 6 months later. Over the next few months we lost around 1/2 the round. I later upped the price to £7.50.

Roll on 12 years and there are a few trad cleaners cleaning those houses for £8. They aren't simple either as they all have joining outside wash rooms so access to the back is over the concrete roof, taking your ladders with you.

In our day it was a great round. Being an old council estate we got paid by friends and neighbours if someone wasn't in. After 3 full days on that estate we probably had 2 or 3 houses we collected payment from on Friday evening collection day. The only thing I disliked about those houses was having to climb over the wash room roof to clean the back. I was also younger back then.?

To be honest Steve it wouldn't surprise, me every once in a while I will have a look on Fb pages and some lads on there are clueless don't have a tds meter or have bought a DI or a cheap R/O and then find out it's useless because there tap tds is 350+ some lads are trying to set up wfp on their bare bones and don't even know the basics before spending money on equipment.

We've had this.

 

[Neil.. Lancashire]

You would think that wouldn't you, but think again it does happen. I had a customer who I cleaned every fortnight for 4 years. She came out and asked if she could go monthly to which I replied of course, the price will go up a couple of quid. Expecting her to say no bother at all instead her face dropped. The next time I came to clean the windows she informed me I was dumped for someone who was charging £3 a month less than I was. I said no problem let the guy crack on cos I wasn't willing to work for those prices. I have been praying she'll catch me again (as I know £6 for her house is way too cheap and hoping the new windy would stop coming) just so I can have the pleasure of telling her no chance. Don't count on people loyalties in this day and age if they can save a few quid. Just my experience ?

I do know what you mean, I had an old boy in is 70's who I cleaned for 4 years and used to chat to because he was living on his own.  Got a text off him. Neil you have been sacked, got someone who will do them for £1 cheaper. I couldn't believe it ? still clean the neighbours 

 He had asked me to clean is mates house a couple of streets away but I told him because it was ono house on it's own we would not be able to do it for him. I presume the lad who did that must of offered him a offer he couldn't refuse. There will always be variables because we are dealing with the public, but in general I still believe there is loyalty if your well mannered and professional. I can't imagine how many times people must of canvassed my work. But I'm not getting cancellation. Not even on the commercial.  

 

[Iron Giant]

Been putting my prices up over the last 12 months and so far 2 cancelled, but one text back after 7 months asking if we could start again. unfortunately had to let her no we were to busy now. It was a grand total of £1 increase. You cant believe how little some people value your efforts. 

Someone dropped me to save themselves 50p a month ? after 4 years of good service and never letting them down, that massive saving must have helped them fund their new cars. ?

 

[Dino]

I met an old time window cleaner in his 70s near me when I started and we got chatting.  He still climbs ladders and is one of those humans who defies space and time and smokes 40 a day.  He is called Stan, I think he is a character out of WW2 the way he goes on.   He just gets on with it, had cancer twice.  Anyway.  He said his round is 400 customers every 6 weeks.  Started when he was 22.  He was very open and honest with me and encouraged me and gave me some tips.  He said the best advice he could give was 'at some point you will know your customers like family over the years, like family you will know what they are willing to pay.  Do not be fooled into thinking you can keep putting your prices up.  The more you go on you will understand that a few hundred customers will give you a nice living and a working pension and keep you fit.  If you are too pricey you will lose work, if you price just at the sweet spot, you won't be too expensive that new starters and sponge monkeys (his words) will be able take work off you in summer when they roll out of bed to top up their dole money.  Don't be too cheap as you wont make past the first two winters as the costs on your van and gear will make you give up as your working too cheaply.  Find the middle ground and your work will be protected and you can cover your costs and have a nice little earner'.  I alway remember him saying that.  Saw last week up a 2nd storey ladder, madness. 

 

[harunh]

I’ve been in this game many years and know many other windies including loads of new startups.

I’ve never heard of anyone mention about new starters using tap water ?

Lol yes a lot of people do not filter the water correctly, i had new a customer i was about to carry out a first clean on, the man came out and said your not doing it with that pole are u? He said they left his windows streaky after the last pole guy had been lol.

I told him we do it properly and we filter our water to the highest standard and he was pleased with our results and he is a good paying regular customer till this day , a lot of cowboys are giving wfp a bad name by not using the correct water, i know a local carpet cleaner starting to offer wfp cleaning at £45.00 for a house and he connects his pole direct to the tap lmaoooo

At the end of the day these type of things actually benefit us established businesses

 

[Cleanco]

Need some advice / guidance please. Expanding my round but constantly finding that some  local window cleaners are charging peanuts. Went to a double bay fronted 3 bed semi today with extension and substantial conservatory . Probably 30mins work for a maintenance clean.Looked to be at least a £15 - £18 job to me. Flabbergasted to hear that her last window cleaner (WFP) charged her £8.  I tried to say that is the reason he doesn’t come anymore and that I am providing a premium service with all frames,cills and doors done but her eyes glazed over. Getting this all the time. Why do so many window cleaners de value the service so much? Quoted a house with 22 windows last week, her window cleaner had been charging £9. 

Getting some good customers who are willing to pay a fair price for a good service but feeling  quite down down about the all too frequent battle against other cleaners comedy prices. I am trying  to earn a decent living to support a wife and children. 

Have you guys guys experienced the same?

Just because someone’s prices are on the cheap side you dont know that they are working for peanuts. When I first started we were doing small semis at £4.50 a chuck turning over min £25/hour. If the lads you talk about are roughly the same then your talking £6/700 a week after tax, expenses etc. I wouldn’t say thats peanuts just not what they could be earning if they upped their game but tbh they are probs happy as they are and don’t want to rock the boat. 

 

[Pit Creature]

A couple of new jobs I quoted as £20, they told me their old window cleaner was charging £5 but they didn't understand how he made a living and were happy to pay £20.

 

[Suhrly]

Imagine if we lived in a world where ALL windies had set prices right around the country but probably best in your local area. X amount of windows/time taken is X price. And prices START at say £10. Then if someone wanted their windows doing it would come down to the skill, professionalism, reliability of the windie rather than the price a certain windie would charge.

If all the windies in your local area got together and had a meeting and said right guys, why don't we all charge X for this, Y for that, prices start from X etc etc. We could then all earn probably much better money.

I know I can't raise my prices too high in my area because of the bucket bobs. And also some decent windies who I know are simply too frightened to raise their prices. But if we all had the same prices we could all sleep a little bit better knowing we should only lose customers through sloppy work and the like.

Ain't never gonna happen I know this ? and I know you'd still get slimeballs undercutting etc but would be great.

 

[wee man]

Imagine if we lived in a world where ALL windies had set prices right around the country but probably best in your local area. X amount of windows/time taken is X price. And prices START at say £10. Then if someone wanted their windows doing it would come down to the skill, professionalism, reliability of the windie rather than the price a certain windie would charge.

If all the windies in your local area got together and had a meeting and said right guys, why don't we all charge X for this, Y for that, prices start from X etc etc. We could then all earn probably much better money.

I know I can't raise my prices too high in my area because of the bucket bobs. And also some decent windies who I know are simply too frightened to raise their prices. But if we all had the same prices we could all sleep a little bit better knowing we should only lose customers through sloppy work and the like.

Ain't never gonna happen I know this ? and I know you'd still get slimeballs undercutting etc but would be great.

I think that's against the law lol. It's like Tesco and Asda getting together and fixing there prices.  

 

[harunh]

Imagine if we lived in a world where ALL windies had set prices right around the country but probably best in your local area. X amount of windows/time taken is X price. And prices START at say £10. Then if someone wanted their windows doing it would come down to the skill, professionalism, reliability of the windie rather than the price a certain windie would charge.

If all the windies in your local area got together and had a meeting and said right guys, why don't we all charge X for this, Y for that, prices start from X etc etc. We could then all earn probably much better money.

I know I can't raise my prices too high in my area because of the bucket bobs. And also some decent windies who I know are simply too frightened to raise their prices. But if we all had the same prices we could all sleep a little bit better knowing we should only lose customers through sloppy work and the like.

Ain't never gonna happen I know this ? and I know you'd still get slimeballs undercutting etc but would be great.

People have different pricing strategies in there own head, window cleaners may do the same job but we all work different to each other and have different prices in our heads lol.

My prices have been the same since i had started up 7 years ago, They should be going up but i can not afford to lose customers by having a price increase.

Slimeballs undercutting ? i got undercut the other day, i wouldnt call the person a slimeball.. its called business and business is a dog eat dog world mate, end of the day this "slimeball" done me a big favour by taking away a this customer , customers who choose to go  with someone else for £1.00 cheaper are not worth stressing over lol

 

 

[Part Timer]

undercutting ? i got undercut the other day, i wouldnt call the person a slimeball..

The vast majority of work I get is because I'm cheaper than the previous cleaners, and I aim for a minimum of £30 an hour. I do get residential work on quality and reliability though. If the competition is genuine and just hungrier it doesn't make them a slimeball. You could be a slimeball to those you've taken work from. 

 

[Suhrly]

People have different pricing strategies in there own head, window cleaners may do the same job but we all work different to each other and have different prices in our heads lol.

My prices have been the same since i had started up 7 years ago, They should be going up but i can not afford to lose customers by having a price increase.

Slimeballs undercutting ? i got undercut the other day, i wouldnt call the person a slimeball.. its called business and business is a dog eat dog world mate, end of the day this "slimeball" done me a big favour by taking away a this customer , customers who choose to go  with someone else for £1.00 cheaper are not worth stressing over lol

 

The vast majority of work I get is because I'm cheaper than the previous cleaners, and I aim for a minimum of £30 an hour. I do get residential work on quality and reliability though. If the competition is genuine and just hungrier it doesn't make them a slimeball. You could be a slimeball to those you've taken work from. 

For some reason I KNEW what I wrote there would be misinterpreted ?‍ Guys, I was NOT referring to the 'real world'. I didn't mean anyone who is cheaper than others are slimeballs. It was a FICTIONAL event in which I invented a made up meeting where all local windies had a get together to help each other raise their prices so we all worked at the same rate. Then I said you would always get that one 'person' who would DELIBERATELY go against everyone else in that MADE UP meeting and stab them in the back to get more customers. Hence going against a 'gentlemans agreement' if you will. THAT would make that person a slimeball. Again, it's a made up scenario.

I've been undercut many times also @Haz and I feel the same way as you. I'm also cheaper than a lot of people @Part Timer Again I'm not referring to the REAL WORLD. Read my post again please. Jesus. I can't believe I have to write this explanation but I knew I would have to.

 

[mike007]

Imagine if we lived in a world where ALL windies had set prices right around the country but probably best in your local area. X amount of windows/time taken is X price. And prices START at say £10. Then if someone wanted their windows doing it would come down to the skill, professionalism, reliability of the windie rather than the price a certain windie would charge.

If all the windies in your local area got together and had a meeting and said right guys, why don't we all charge X for this, Y for that, prices start from X etc etc. We could then all earn probably much better money.

I know I can't raise my prices too high in my area because of the bucket bobs. And also some decent windies who I know are simply too frightened to raise their prices. But if we all had the same prices we could all sleep a little bit better knowing we should only lose customers through sloppy work and the like.

Ain't never gonna happen I know this ? and I know you'd still get slimeballs undercutting etc but would be great.

Story about money.....perfect world starts at 12.00am and all the money in the world is divided equally between every person on Earth.......By 12.30am you would have some people richer...and some people poorer...just how it is. Same in business, you have a round and charge £x, competition, not bucket bobs but a good window cleaner comes in and charges 75% of your £x and takes half your customers...what do you do?, try to get more work? go out of business? or lower your prices to compete with the opposition?.

 

[harunh]

For some reason I KNEW what I wrote there would be misinterpreted ?‍ Guys, I was NOT referring to the 'real world'. I didn't mean anyone who is cheaper than others are slimeballs. It was a FICTIONAL event in which I invented a made up meeting where all local windies had a get together to help each other raise their prices so we all worked at the same rate. Then I said you would always get that one 'person' who would DELIBERATELY go against everyone else in that MADE UP meeting and stab them in the back to get more customers. Hence going against a 'gentlemans agreement' if you will. THAT would make that person a slimeball. Again, it's a made up scenario.

I've been undercut many times also @Haz and I feel the same way as you. I'm also cheaper than a lot of people @Part Timer Again I'm not referring to the REAL WORLD. Read my post again please. Jesus. I can't believe I have to write this explanation but I knew I would have to.

Mate what do u mean undercut ? there is no such thing as undercut ? its called business hahaha , Where in the North East are u based ? Am from Middlesbrough lol and theres so many new window cleaners starting up here but there still is plenty of work to go around for us all

 

[Wind o kleen]

Mate what do u mean undercut ? there is no such thing as undercut ? its called business ? hahaha , Where in the North East are u based ? Am from Middlesbrough lol and theres so many new window cleaners starting up here but there still is plenty of work to go around for us all ?

You’ll end up getting your bucket pinched in south bank 

 

[johnny bravo]

To a point I agree with @Haz and what @Pjj says also, but it depends what you want your business to be on a daily basis I want well priced compact work, not a full day of £15 jobs spread across 10-20 streets across town or multiple towns, I don't want to drive around and sit in traffic to earn the same or a bit more money and be racing around all day everyday.

There is some younger lads not to far from me with 2 new vans and all the gear plus gutter vac and pressure washer and fair play to them they appear to be doing well and must be hitting near enough every town and village with mass leaflet drops and fb advertising in a distance of 35 miles plus doing jobs and they have a good rep that I know of.Everyone wants different things and if you have the drive and ambition you will succeed whatever your business model is or how you want to work day to day,

I am generally up about 5am because of back and muscle trouble but will be lucky if I manage to get to work for a 8.30am start most days, I do 20-30 jobs a day of compact work and I am back home for 4.30pm, I like a straightforward uncomplicated day, crikey I sound older than @spruce

keep of that laptop iron g.   in the morning.   it will make you go blind   haha