Sick of carbon dust on hands

[Pjj]

There is a old story that kicks about, don't know if it is actually true, that the Americans spent millions developing a pen that would work in space as traditional pens rely on gravity. The Russians meanwhile used pencils.

The point is, the solution already exists. There are cracking gloves on the market that will do wonders for your longterm health, both specially for your hands and also as they offer a major layer of protection. No point in reinventing the pen in this case.  

But who wants to wear gloves I certainly don’t even in winter and definitely not in summer 

 

[Master Jedi Alejandro]

But who wants to wear gloves I certainly don’t even in winter and definitely not in summer 

Each to their own but I wear gloves throughout the year. Thermal and waterproof ones in winter and just waterproof in summer.

 

[Baldmonkey]

There is a old story that kicks about, don't know if it is actually true, that the Americans spent millions developing a pen that would work in space as traditional pens rely on gravity. The Russians meanwhile used pencils.

The point is, the solution already exists. There are cracking gloves on the market that will do wonders for your longterm health, both specially for your hands and also as they offer a major layer of protection. No point in reinventing the pen in this case.  

There is a old story that kicks about, don't know if it is actually true, that the Americans spent millions developing a CARBON pole that would work on any window the same as the CLX. The Russians meanwhile used CLX'S

Yet people wanted carbon fibre poles!!! ??

 

[Cleanco]

Don’t know what all the fuss is about? It’s only a bit of dust. I remember years ago using the old fibre glass poles, you used to get really itchy hands with all the fibre glass splinters. Same with the ladder and all the ally coming off on your hands. I think some are better suited sitting behind a desk. 

 

[Davy G]

Don’t know what all the fuss is about? It’s only a bit of dust. I remember years ago using the old fibre glass poles, you used to get really itchy hands with all the fibre glass splinters. Same with the ladder and all the ally coming off on your hands. I think some are better suited sitting behind a desk. 

Your so wrong on this occasion Cleanco, sorry.

Why do I say that? I was born in 1956, Thalidomide was given to young mothers at around that time as a remedy for morning sickness, luckily my mother was made of stern stuff and didn't take it.

I grew up in the 1960s: lead paint on the wooden windows, and the drinking water coming through lead pipes. 

Asbestos roofs, water mains and pipe lagging, we used throw the sheeting on bonfires to watch it explode. 

1970s : fibreglass insulation  sticking in the skin of anyone who worked with it. What was it doing to our insides? Aluminium cooking pots, still in use. Teflon frying pans, still being sold. 

1980s: I worked on a cross country water pipeline (fibreglass) in Staffordshire. Johnston Armaflow was the product. We had a one day training session as it was a new product to us. They showed a video of a guy cutting a pipe with a Stihl saw, dust so thick we could hardly see him. My ganger asked why he wasn't wearing a mask. The instructor had great delight in saying he didn't need one as it's totally harmless. "Only a bit of dust." We didn't take his word for it, it was obvious it couldn't be healthy. We always used masks. 

Present day : carbon dust on skin annoying but is it harmful if inhaled or injested, who knows? 

What I'm saying is it's wise to be cautious, keep an open mind and take sensible precautions. 

Only a bit of dust is a very risky benchmark. I'm not trying to be clever. I just want you, me and the rest of the good folks on here to be able to eventually retire in a condition of sound health. ?

 

[Part Timer]

with the ladder and all the ally coming off on your hands. I think some are better suited sitting behind a desk. 

I have literally handled thousands of tonnes of aluminium scrap and can only remember a few times aluminium oxide being bad enough to actually mark your hands. Your ladders must have been in some state to do it.

The carbon dust we are talking about can't easily be washed off.  Personally not bothered what colour my hands are during work hours but not happy when I can't easily clean them when I get home.

 

[NoName]

Hmmm take a look at this doc by NASA (yes that nasa) - 

Title - Carbon Structure Hazard Control its'58! pages long...

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20150012180.pdf

pg 17 The disrupted carbon fiber is easily airborne and widely distributed. Carbon fiber exposure can cause mechanical irritation and abrasion similar to that of glass fibers (OSHA 1999). Skin rashes often occur and are reportedly more severe than from glass fibers. Commonly used carbon fibers are greater than 5 µm in diameter, making them small enough to be inhaled, but large enough to allow lung tissue to encapsulate the fibers and expel them from the body. Carbon fibers are very fine and easily broken by stretching (by less than two percent elongation), and can become a fine dust or fly during any handling operations. This includes manufacturing, qualification, processing, test and evaluation, service, and disposal. If uncontrolled, these composite structures and associated microfibers have the potential to stick to human skin or mucous membranes and cause irritation, particularly to eyes, skin, and lungs. This is compounded when high energetic events are coupled with fire during service or destructive evaluation. Additionally, in the service environment, elements of dispersion are much harder to control and thus contain the carbon hazard. 

pg 20 Airborne composite fibers pose a potential respiratory hazard to personnel and therefore must be protected against

There is a higher potential if the composite is exposed to machining operations, highly energetic events, and/or fire. 

Nuisance dust may cause temporary but reversible respiratory irritation if inhaled; however, long-term exposure to any dust could aggravate existing respiratory or pulmonary conditions. This is demonstrated by long-term human exposure to coal dust.  

@Alex Gardiner can you please advise what if any testing has been done with the dust from your poles - how much of a health concern is this ?? 

 

[NoName]

'06 HSE report includes carbon fibre in 'An inventory of fibres to classify their potential hazard and risk'

https://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrpdf/rr503.pdf

Conclusion includes...

Although the test data is aimed at identifying the dimensions, durability/solubility, dose and dustiness which are useful predictors of lung related health hazards and risks, the carcinogenic behaviour of fibres is still not well-understood and fibre carcinogenicity may also be modified by the surface chemistry, surface structure and chemical composition.  
The current advances in technology reviewed in the report show that there is a need to monitor the new fibre technologies as they are introducing fine respirable, non-soluble fibres into many new and traditional products. 

??

 

[NoName]

A Carbon Fibre MSDS sheet - (not sure how similar/different this is to the poles most of hold 9-5 M-F?? 

https://www.easycomposites.co.uk/downloads/MSDS/EC-MSDS-Carbiso-Milled-Carbon-Fibre.pdf

"Personal precautions  Use dust protective mask (P1) and protective work wear at all times during handling or  use of this product."

 @Alex Gardiner do you have a MSDS sheet we can see?

 

[Ana]

The carbon dust we are talking about can't easily be washed off.  Personally not bothered what colour my hands are during work hours but not happy when I can't easily clean them when I get home.

Same here, ended up with three black tainted fingers on a otherwise white hand! Brought some marigold latex gloves which sorted the problem and gave me a little heat retention in the cold winter months, can't imagine summer will be a issue using them, I don't have sweaty palms haha.

 

[Part Timer]

Same here, ended up with three black tainted fingers on a otherwise white hand! Brought some marigold latex gloves which sorted the problem and gave me a little heat retention in the cold winter months, can't imagine summer will be a issue using them, I don't have sweaty palms haha.

I don't have standard size hands, or anything else come to think about it, and most latex type gloves rip very quickly. Will be upgrading to a CLX very soon.

 

[Davy G]

Just to crarify, I was not intending to make an issue over what, I suspect is a tiny amount of carbon dust that we come across with Gardiner poles. It can be irritating to have black staining on the hands and it can be itchy at times. I doubt though that there's much gets into our insides as we are out in the airflows. I almost never wear gloves even in the winter as I  find them too cumbersome and sweaty. I couldn't work all day wearing a dust mask.

There are so many pollutants in the air that it's impossible to prevent inhaling a lot of them. My point was, it's unwise to be flippant about our health.?

 

[Iron Giant]

As long as I don't get  ?? on my hands I am happy, it's far worse ?

 

[Alex Gardiner]

A Carbon Fibre MSDS sheet - (not sure how similar/different this is to the poles most of hold 9-5 M-F?? 

https://www.easycomposites.co.uk/downloads/MSDS/EC-MSDS-Carbiso-Milled-Carbon-Fibre.pdf

"Personal precautions  Use dust protective mask (P1) and protective work wear at all times during handling or  use of this product."

 @Alex Gardiner do you have a MSDS sheet we can see?

Hi NoName

The subject of the carbon residue produced has been discussed previously on Forums in great depth so it is something we have considered many times over the years - as I am sure other pole manufacturers/retailers have also done.

Having worked for 2 decades now with Carbon Fibre poles I have always been personally very interested

The MSDS that you have linked to is for Milled Carbon Fibre in dust/particle form - this of course needs very different precautions to carbon fibre in solid tube form as we handle.

I do have MSDS for Gardiner fibre glass, carbon fibre and kevlar tubes as we need these when exporting etc. These are available on request - please drop me an email on [email protected] and I can share these with you  The risks for carbon fibre in cured solid tube form is, as you would expect, a lot lower than the already 'not that hazardous' milled carbon dust.

The risk from the carbon 'material' produced during wear and tear is considered to be very low - why?

1. You will notice that I tend to refer to this as Carbon 'residue' rather than 'dust' - this is because most of this is produced with the poles in a damp state and the staining occurs from black water rather than black dust. The carbon material in liquid or semi-liquid form has very little danger of being inhaled.

2. The work is being carried out in an outside 'non-confined' space - this also reduces the risk of inhalation. To inhale, the pole would have to be completely dry and you would have to suck very hard within mm of the tube surface - even then it is doubtful any would be inhaled.

3. Quantity - the quantity produced daily is very low - however due to its intense 'blackness' a little goes a long way when in water.

In reality we will be more at risk from the vehicle pollution being breathed in whilst we work than any potential 'carbon dust' from the pole being held.

The one time that care really needs to be taken is when cutting, sanding or sawing the carbon fibre. If doing this then we would recommend a suitable dust mask and gloves and to work in a non-confined space. However even then this material is classed as an irritant and not a toxic element.

 

[dazmond]

i find when i dont wear nitrile gloves (on sunny hot days in summer) that running my hands through my brush with my hot pure water on a few times a day gets the carbon off my hands easily....

 

[Diamond geezer]

his is why I have gone back to a clx

That's intresting as iam about to buy my first new pole.was going for slx 18, but thought about a clx for that very reason,id heard about people complaining of black hands,but to be honest,i use a carbon 33 its to heavy yes,and my hands get messy,i ppf the pole now and again but at the end of the day iwash my hands and their ok.Your hands must be cleaner during the day,and that to you is preferable to the lighter stiffer SLX  you've got me thinking again mate.Its a serious business,when your working with a pole x hrs a day x days a week cheers

 

[Tango]

There is a old story that kicks about, don't know if it is actually true, that the Americans spent millions developing a CARBON pole that would work on any window the same as the CLX. The Russians meanwhile used CLX'S

Yet people wanted carbon fibre poles!!! ??

Reminds me of nasa inventing the papermate so astronauts could use it in space... while the russians used a pencil

 

[Pjj]

i find when i dont wear nitrile gloves (on sunny hot days in summer) that running my hands through my brush with my hot pure water on a few times a day gets the carbon off my hands easily....

I find it goes into my skin and cannot get it out with anything 

Don’t know what all the fuss is about? It’s only a bit of dust. I remember years ago using the old fibre glass poles, you used to get really itchy hands with all the fibre glass splinters. Same with the ladder and all the ally coming off on your hands. I think some are better suited sitting behind a desk. 

It’s more than dust it’s like little barbs and it stickers in your skin and feels rough ,cannot get it out no matter what I do .

 

[Cleanco]

Your so wrong on this occasion Cleanco, sorry.

Why do I say that? I was born in 1956, Thalidomide was given to young mothers at around that time as a remedy for morning sickness, luckily my mother was made of stern stuff and didn't take it.

I grew up in the 1960s: lead paint on the wooden windows, and the drinking water coming through lead pipes. 

Asbestos roofs, water mains and pipe lagging, we used throw the sheeting on bonfires to watch it explode. 

1970s : fibreglass insulation  sticking in the skin of anyone who worked with it. What was it doing to our insides? Aluminium cooking pots, still in use. Teflon frying pans, still being sold. 

1980s: I worked on a cross country water pipeline (fibreglass) in Staffordshire. Johnston Armaflow was the product. We had a one day training session as it was a new product to us. They showed a video of a guy cutting a pipe with a Stihl saw, dust so thick we could hardly see him. My ganger asked why he wasn't wearing a mask. The instructor had great delight in saying he didn't need one as it's totally harmless. "Only a bit of dust." We didn't take his word for it, it was obvious it couldn't be healthy. We always used masks. 

Present day : carbon dust on skin annoying but is it harmful if inhaled or injested, who knows? 

What I'm saying is it's wise to be cautious, keep an open mind and take sensible precautions. 

Only a bit of dust is a very risky benchmark. I'm not trying to be clever. I just want you, me and the rest of the good folks on here to be able to eventually retire in a condition of sound health. ?

A bit over the top that comparison mate. If the poles were giving off plumes of smoke  then ok I’d hear you but that couldn’t be farther from the truth. 

 

[Cleanco]

I have literally handled thousands of tonnes of aluminium scrap and can only remember a few times aluminium oxide being bad enough to actually mark your hands. Your ladders must have been in some state to do it.

The carbon dust we are talking about can't easily be washed off.  Personally not bothered what colour my hands are during work hours but not happy when I can't easily clean them when I get home.

In fact it’s newer ladders that give off more ally residue. You’ve obviously never worked with a ladder for any serious amount of time. It’s even worse when working in the wet and is similar to carbon residue as it just doesn’t want to come off. 

 

[Cleanco]

A Carbon Fibre MSDS sheet - (not sure how similar/different this is to the poles most of hold 9-5 M-F?? 

https://www.easycomposites.co.uk/downloads/MSDS/EC-MSDS-Carbiso-Milled-Carbon-Fibre.pdf

"Personal precautions  Use dust protective mask (P1) and protective work wear at all times during handling or  use of this product."

 @Alex Gardiner do you have a MSDS sheet we can see?

I think they are more aimed at people who manufacture carbon. The amount of carbon deposits we are talking about in our industry are insignificant.