Ro production nightmare

[Iron Giant]

Tap pressure has dropped quite a bit and could continue for weeks on end if the warm spell continues, So I may have production issues moving forward. Thinking back it was producing at a reasonable rate on Wednesday but did take 14 hrs to fill but it could have been on flush then, appalling memory doesn't help. 

If I open the stopcock in the house fully the flow out of the tap doesn't increase at all, So my quandry is do i cancel my order for the booster pump. 

The flow from the waste is 2-3 times faster than the flow from the waste I have a inline restrictor valve fitted 

 

[spruce]

Tap pressure has dropped quite a bit and could continue for weeks on end if the warm spell continues, So I may have production issues moving forward. Thinking back it was producing at a reasonable rate on Wednesday but did take 14 hrs to fill but it could have been on flush then, appalling memory doesn't help. 

If I open the stopcock in the house fully the flow out of the tap doesn't increase at all, So my quandry is do i cancel my order for the booster pump. 

The flow from the waste is 2-3 times faster than the flow from the waste I have a inline restrictor valve fitted 

I should have gone back and looked at your photo and seen your inline restrictor. A booster pump isn't a bad addition to your kit anyway and its not costing you an arm and a leg. If you have already placed your order and you feel production is due to water pressure, then I would let the order stand.

One of the local lads added a booster pump to his 300gpd r/o as his r/o without a booster pump wasn't providing him with enough water when he had a second cleaner working with him a couple of days a week. He now has sufficient for his requirements thanks to the booster pump.

 

[Iron Giant]

Its only me so slow production to a point won't be an issue as such but I've cancelled the booster pump order for now as would you believe everything is back to normal practically again  :banghead3:   and I only went and ordered some new membranes in a panic from @doug atkinson i will have to ring him this morning 

Must get to work anyways, I will update you later on. Thanks 

 

[Iron Giant]

Booster pump is back on order and will have a chat with Doug later.

County Durham Lad

 

[Iron Giant]

Spoke to Doug and he suggested a quick way to find out if a booster pump will increase pure production in my case is to use the pump I use for work.

So tonight I will take my pump box out of the van and put it after the garden tap to the ro hozelock inlet.

County Durham Lad

 

[Iron Giant]

Booster pump it is I did as Doug advised and production improved straight off but as i could only run it for a minute or so I had to quickly take a tds reading as well whilst running.

Tds had crept to 005ppm but dropped to 002ppm in the quick test so should improve once booster pump is fitted next week.

County Durham Lad
 

 

[spruce]

Spoke to Doug and he suggested a quick way to find out if a booster pump will increase pure production in my case is to use the pump I use for work.

So tonight I will take my pump box out of the van and put it after the garden tap to the ro hozelock inlet.

County Durham Lad
 

That's a good way of checking if you need a booster pump as your r/o will use less water than the wfp pump can deliver. That deserves a high 5 for @doug atkinsonfor that excellent suggestion.

 

[Iron Giant]

That's a good way of checking if you need a booster pump as your r/o will use less water than the wfp pump can deliver. That deserves a high 5 for @doug atkinsonfor that excellent suggestion.

Doug did say I could only run the pump for 2 minutes max incase I caused any damage to the pump I think he said on the phone so it had to be quick. @spruce thanks again for taking time out and advising me I owe you a drink if you are ever over my way. 

 

[spruce]

Doug did say I could only run the pump for 2 minutes max incase I caused any damage to the pump I think he said on the phone so it had to be quick. @spruce thanks again for taking time out and advising me I owe you a drink if you are ever over my way. 

I have found this interesting. Tbh I've gained far more from this thread than I've given. As with so many things in life, skills one has learnt from one experience can be carried over to another. I'm afraid in this instance, I failed and let myself down. So its me that should be thanking both you and @doug atkinson

I have an old friend in Northallerton (we've known her side of the family for more than 60 years and his side for 40 years) whose son is using a cheap Chen pump as a booster pump for his r/o. He has it on one of those mechanical timers that has 15 minute on off cycles. His is programmed for 15 minutes on and then 15 minutes off to facilitate the pump motor to cool down. Its been working for a good couple of years that way.

I took this photo of his setup in their downstairs toilet last year.

I'm disappointed with myself that it didn't think of suggesting this working concept as something for you to try. But its good that Doug suggested this as it will now be something I won't forget next time.

 

[Iron Giant]

@spruce glad you took the photo certainly something to consider more so with mine been outside in my shed and I hadn't thought about the pump possibly overheating if running for a number of hours and it maybe that I can also set it to shut off at a set time. 

One of my neighbours has some armoured cable, as mine will have to go from my outside rcd protected double socket into my shed so it would be better to have a socket inside the shed, I think i will have to have a sort out this weekend in preparation for the pump arriving on Monday then it will be simple set up to get production up and running fully on Monday evening. 

No need to be disappointed with your good self as your memory is as appalling as mine ?

 

[spruce]

@spruce glad you took the photo certainly something to consider more so with mine been outside in my shed and I hadn't thought about the pump possibly overheating if running for a number of hours and it maybe that I can also set it to shut off at a set time. 

One of my neighbours has some armoured cable, as mine will have to go from my outside rcd protected double socket into my shed so it would be better to have a socket inside the shed, I think i will have to have a sort out this weekend in preparation for the pump arriving on Monday then it will be simple set up to get production up and running fully on Monday evening. 

No need to be disappointed with your good self as your memory is as appalling as mine ?

My mate runs his Aquatec booster pump for the duration of his fill. He has a Smart Water system Gardiners used to sell that activates and deactivates his solenoid float switch and booster pump at the same time. But as with most, ambient temperatures are key. I would imagine most pumps will run much hotter in this weather than they would do in winter.

Our Northallerton friend don't have that automatic fill system. His r/o is at his dad's place and he relies on his dad to monitor the level of his IBC tank during the day and switch the r/o off when the tank is full. (Dad's retired and son says it gives him something constructive to do.) The r/o is in the down stairs toilet and the IBC tank is in a shed outside. You can see a small hole in the wall for his 1/4" pipe that goes into a small hole drilled in the top of the IBC tank.

 

[Jordiebarrett]

We also have and use a Chen pump. We run ours sometimes for 12 hours straight if we drop our tanks low enough. Nought through eBay with warranty. Unfortunately it froze with the beast from the east so sent it back and got a new one within 2 days. We use a garden watering time to set times when the water is on and then a low pressure switch that detects a low flow rate so either the tank is full and shut off valve has activated or the water has turned off on the timer as it's gone 8pm...


Sent using the Window Cleaning Forums mobile app

 

[Iron Giant]

I couldn't find 1/4" tubing listed either ?

They must have it somewhere as they supply small r/o systems. Maybe they aren't listed as they class it as a consumable. So you might have to phone them to order it.

The booster pump comes with 3 metres of JG tubing as part of the package 

 

[Iron Giant]

All set for booster pump tomorrow, as my DIY skills are virtually non existent I think I have done a decent job

County Durham Lad

 

[Dave B]

I was told booster pump is best after pre filters and before membranes

Something to do with pre filter fittings not as resistant to the extra pressure from booster

 

[Iron Giant]

I was told booster pump is best after pre filters and before membranes
Something to do with pre filter fittings not as resistant to the extra pressure from booster

Yes mate, that's the plan.

County Durham Lad

 

[Iron Giant]

[emoji20] The saga continues it seems like their is air getting in some how I have checked and tightened all connections and even the changed some hozelock fittings but stills the same if not worse.


When I switch the pump on the hose from the pump to the first membranes vibrates like mad

County Durham Lad

[emoji20] The saga continues it seems like their is air getting in some how I have checked and tightened all connections and even the changed some hozelock fittings but stills the same if not worse.


When I switch the pump on the hose from the pump to the first membranes vibrates like mad

County Durham Lad

Arghh

County Durham Lad

 

[spruce]

The saga continues it seems like their is air getting in some how I have checked and tightened all connections and even the changed some hozelock fittings but stills the same if not worse.


When I switch the pump on the hose from the pump to the first membranes vibrates like mad

County Durham Lad
 

Arghh View attachment 14292

County Durham Lad
 

I've send the local windie who uses a booster pump a message to ask him if he experiences the same thing.

 

[Iron Giant]

I've send the local windie who uses a booster pump a message to ask him if he experiences the same thing.

Thanks @spruce the issue with the air is on and off if I move the membranes you can hear a spluttering with the pump off then it settles but once I have given time for air to be pushed through without the pump running the issue continues and the pump is very noisy. 

But last night I went to Screwfix and bought a mains water pressure gauge and my tap pressure reading was 65psi, So I am now assuming that i damaged the membranes last week and the issue with the pump could be down the membranes being damaged 

 

[spruce]

Thanks @spruce the issue with the air is on and off if I move the membranes you can hear a spluttering with the pump off then it settles but once I have given time for air to be pushed through without the pump running the issue continues and the pump is very noisy. 

But last night I went to Screwfix and bought a mains water pressure gauge and my tap pressure reading was 65psi, So I am now assuming that i damaged the membranes last week and the issue with the pump could be down the membranes being damaged 

There shouldn't be air in the line as it should have bleed through very quickly. If its not, then the pump is sucking air in somewhere. It will be at a join somewhere before the pump.

I've just had a response back from my mate and he says he doesn't experience a vibration like you are reporting. He says the pump works really well and he has had it a good 5 years. He has his connected between the prefilters and the membranes the same as you have.

So you might have to get back to PF and report the issue. I don't know exactly how that pump works but I'm pretty certain it will be a diaphram pump based on a similar design to our wfp pumps on the van. I think they also have a pressure relief valve inside the head to maintain maximum pressure and bleed an excess back into the pump inlet. So the pump will run continously. If the water being pump is bleeding away too fast, such as through the waste restrictor, then you could get a water hammer which causes that vibration. 

I've noticed a similar pumping vibration when my son uses his backpack, although not 'vibrating like mad'. He likes his flow painfully slow so very little pressure builds up in his pole hose. When I use it I turn up the flow and the pumping vibration is much less.

 

[Iron Giant]

@spruce I spoke to PF yesterday and they advised what i had done which was to run the ro without pump to allow any air through when the spluttering stopped I turned the pump on and it started to vibrate straight away. All connections are tight and JG fittings fully pushed in. 

But if my tap pressure was  65psi  at 7 pm last night then surely I have enough tap pressure to produce pure at the expected production rate, Were as currently the pure is a trickle and has being all last night into this morning  and the waste flow is 2-3 times fast so thinking i need to order new membranes from @doug atkinson this morning


And the promised 3 metres of JG tubing never came with my booster pump from PF